Any Sign of White Smoke Yet?

[tyrone exile]

People loose their faith in a deity and/or a faith group for a multitude of reasons. The child abuse cover up just highlights the RC churchs moral corruption as an institution. One should not discount the power of the butterfly affect in bringing about change. We're doing our bit

When you say "we're doing our bit" does it give you satisfaction to see people loose their faith?
I am no lover of the Church, far from it, but luckily i don't need a church to keep my faith, however not everyone can feel the same. I could take no joy in seeing so many people loose their faith, no matter what religion it may be.

[theskull1]

Satisfaction isn't a driving motivation. Calling the RC hierarchy for what they are (I.e.morally bankrupt)  needs to get said. It may be a force for good in many local areas but the ugly underbelly will always be there

[Eamonnca1]

...I could take no joy in seeing so many people loose lose their faith...

I could.

[tyrone exile]

You seem like a delightful person

[theskull1]

Just enlighten me as to why you've a problem with eamonnca1s reply TE?

I think you're jumping to conclusions far too early

[tyrone exile]

That he would take joy in watching people lose their faith

[theskull1]

That he would take joy in watching people lose their faith

I know that already...I was interested in your thinking as to why YOU believe this makes eamonnca1 a less than delightful person? Could it be that you need to open you mind to the fact that there are very decent athiests out there who genuinely have there own belief system as such. If they can persuade others to think likewise, please explain why that makes them 'non delightful'

Seriously I want to know

[Eamonnca1]

Skull, only the religious are allowed to think that they have the belief system that should be adopted by others. If you proselytize  for religion then fair play to you for doing a great job. If you proselytize against it then you're an arrogant, intolerant, aggressive secularist.   Get with the program!

When you look at the number of people getting killed year in year out over religion, I happen to think that we'd be better off with a bit less belief in the invisible man in the sky. So I say again, the more people lose their faith the better.

Faith is the most overrated belief system ever.  Believing something without evidence for it is such a ridiculous concept that I'm damned if I know why it's still considered a virtue in this day and age.

[bennydorano]

Faith isn't merely a Religious concept though, is it ridiculous in all it's guises? We've all faith in something or other.

[orangeman]

This new Pope will not go down well among the hierarchy. There will be a lot of nervous men around Rome ( and the world ) at the minute -

I'm liking this man more and more -


Pope Francis has said that the church should be poor and remember that its mission is to serve the poor.

The pope made his comments in an audience for journalists this morning.

He explained why he chose to take the name Francis, after St Francis of Assisi, a symbol of peace, austerity and poverty.

He called Francis "the man who gives us this spirit of peace, the poor man", and added: "Oh, how I would like a poor church, and for the poor."

Since his election on Wednesday as the first non-European pope in nearly 1,300 years, Francis has signalled a sharp change of style from his predecessor, Benedict.

He has laid out a clear moral path for the 1.2-billion-member church, which is beset by scandals, intrigue and strife.

He thanked the thousands of journalists who had covered his election but invited them to "always try to better understand the true nature of the church, and even its journey in the world, with its virtues and with its sins".

He urged journalists to seek "truth, goodness and beauty" in the world and in the church.

Francis has set a forceful moral tone and given clear signs already that he will bring a new broom to the crisis-hit papacy, favouring humility and simplicity over pomp and grandeur.

He recalled how on Wednesday night, as he was receiving more and more votes in the conclave, the cardinal sitting next to him, Claudio Hummes of Brazil, comforted him "as the situation became dangerous".

After the voting reached the two-thirds majority that elected him, applause broke out.

Cardinal Hummes, 78, then hugged and kissed him and told him: "Don't forget the poor", the pope recounted, often gesturing with his hands.

"That word entered here," he added, pointing to his head.

While the formal voting continued, the pope recalled: "I thought of wars .... and Francis (of Assisi) is the man of peace, and that is how the name entered my heart, Francis of Assisi, for me he is the man of poverty, the man of peace, the man who loves and protects others."

It was the latest indication that the pope wanted the worldwide church to take on an austere style.

On the night he was elected he shunned the papal limousine and travelled on a bus with other cardinals. He went to the church-run hotel where he had been staying before the conclave and insisted on paying the bill.

Francis, the former Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, has also urged Argentines not to make costly trips to Rome to see him but to give the money to the poor instead.

[Syferus]

Read in the Sindo the Vatican lads haves 'accidentally' invested 23m Euro in a gay sauna. These bucks don't help themselves much.

[Maguire01]

People loose their faith in a deity and/or a faith group for a multitude of reasons. The child abuse cover up just highlights the RC churchs moral corruption as an institution. One should not discount the power of the butterfly affect in bringing about change. We're doing our bit

When you say "we're doing our bit" does it give you satisfaction to see people loose their faith?
I am no lover of the Church, far from it, but luckily i don't need a church to keep my faith, however not everyone can feel the same. I could take no joy in seeing so many people loose their faith, no matter what religion it may be.

What difference does it make to you if people lose their faith?

[Nally Stand]

...I could take no joy in seeing so many people loose lose their faith...

I could.

You sound like quite the lowlife.

[tyrone exile]

That he would take joy in watching people lose their faith

I know that already...I was interested in your thinking as to why YOU believe this makes eamonnca1 a less than delightful person? Could it be that you need to open you mind to the fact that there are very decent athiests out there who genuinely have there own belief system as such. If they can persuade others to think likewise, please explain why that makes them 'non delightful'

Seriously I want to know

I know that there are decent atheist out there, and everybody has the right to believe or not believe in whatever they want, I don't go around ramming my beliefs down other people throats,  I don't believe that is right, however neither are atheists who go round ramming their non-beliefs down peoples throats. If satisfaction isn't the motivating factor then what is?

Skull, only the religious are allowed to think that they have the belief system that should be adopted by others. If you proselytize  for religion then fair play to you for doing a great job. If you proselytize against it then you're an arrogant, intolerant, aggressive secularist.   Get with the program!

When you look at the number of people getting killed year in year out over religion, I happen to think that we'd be better off with a bit less belief in the invisible man in the sky. So I say again, the more people lose their faith the better.

Faith is the most overrated belief system ever.  Believing something without evidence for it is such a ridiculous concept that I'm damned if I know why it's still considered a virtue in this day and age.

That's your opinion, I agree that there have been many people killed over religion, however i think the morals and social order it set within society greatly makes up for that. I'm not here to change someones opinion on religion, i would take no joy even if you did regain your faith, its entirely a private matter, however I cant comprehend why someone would take joy in watching a person lose their faith.

People loose their faith in a deity and/or a faith group for a multitude of reasons. The child abuse cover up just highlights the RC churchs moral corruption as an institution. One should not discount the power of the butterfly affect in bringing about change. We're doing our bit

When you say "we're doing our bit" does it give you satisfaction to see people loose their faith?
I am no lover of the Church, far from it, but luckily i don't need a church to keep my faith, however not everyone can feel the same. I could take no joy in seeing so many people loose their faith, no matter what religion it may be.

What difference does it make to you if people lose their faith?

it doesn't make a difference, I just find it unpleasant to see others ramming their views down other peoples throats. everyone has the ability and the right to make their own mind up!

[Ulick]

This new Pope will not go down well among the hierarchy. There will be a lot of nervous men around Rome ( and the world ) at the minute -

Indeed but I suspect not the men you have in mind. The problem for Francis as I see it is that those most supportive of his humble, 'man of the people' approach with an austere Mass, are the same post-Vatican II tie-dye, hippy Bishops and Cardinals that have been complicit in the corruption and scandals.

For example, look at this Cardinals Twitter feed:



This from a man, head of a diocese that paid out $10million the other day to settle abuse claims because he sheltered the abusers.  The same man who spent over $200 million on this monstrosity:



One of the main power brokers in the election of Francis was Angelo Sodano, Dean of the College of Cardinals, a man notorious for his Machiavellian manoeuvres within the Vatican, has blocked abuse cases coming to light and who once described abuse claims as "petty gossip".

Pope Francis is an outsider to the Curia and Vatican and as such doesn't know who are the ones needing cleared out. As such he'll be relying on the likes of Sodano who strangely enough has also been calling for reform of the Curia recently.