Divide Dublin in two rears its head again

[GalwayBayBoy]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-everyone-will-gain-when-dubs-cross-great-dividing-line-29090627.html

Colm O'Rourke: Everyone will gain when Dubs cross great dividing line
Football in Dublin has too many resources – and players – to still be a single entity.

Colm O'Rourke – 24 February 2013

Some years ago a suggestion was circulated that consideration should be given to dividing up Dublin for football purposes and creating another couple of county teams. At the time there was shock and horror in most Dublin circles and the idea was given a short hearing. Maybe it is time to give it another airing, especially as Dublin football in general is in its healthiest state for decades.

The reason for this would appear to be that Dublin are extremely well-organised now. It does not mean that they are going to win the All-Ireland every year but we are moving towards a scenario where Dublin look as if they will dominate Leinster at minor and under 21 level indefinitely.

People always talk about structures and systems but the key to all of this is having the right personnel in charge of teams. If you get that part right and resource the teams properly in terms of gear, back-up with medics, dieticians, gym membership etc, then everything else will fall into place.

The other side of this is making sure that anyone who is unsuitable for a position is jettisoned quickly. It is no different to running any business in that regard. Keeping good managers in place for a while and then allowing them to move up the ladder can be seen to practical effect with Jim Gavin, successful at under 21 moving on to senior, and Dessie Farrell with a smashing group of minors now taking over the under 21s. In the background there is the guiding hand of John Costello, who ensures that teams have what they need. This is paying off in spades and the train has only left the station. There is a lot more to come.

So why then would anyone disrupt progress, especially as the Dubs are brand leaders and the financial locomotive which helps pay coaches, build grounds and paint the brightest possible image of the GAA all over the country?

It comes down to a question of fairness.

In the latest census, the population of Dublin is 1,273,000. The next highest population of a county in Leinster is Kildare with 210,000. Now it is more difficult for the GAA to gain a foothold in parts of Dublin than it is in any other county but even allowing for that, Dublin has a population which is over a million greater than the next biggest county in Leinster. At the moment, Kildare seem to be in the best position to challenge Dublin at both underage and senior yet they do start off at a major disadvantage.

Of course many Dubs will feel that mangling the county into various units, whether based on administrative units or collections of clubs, would destroy the supporter base and lead to apathy and they might not win anything either. Well, try the argument about winning with a county like Longford with a population of 39,000.

A lot of Dublin clubs pick from greater numbers than that. On top of this, many counties in Leinster run their underage teams reasonably well but have very little chance when the Dubs are organised as well as they are now. Are the smaller counties not worth protecting and given a real shot at a provincial title?

Naturally, there are those who feel that a break-up of Dublin is the penalty for doing things right and if they were not successful this would not arise. That is the dog-in-the-manger attitude. There is a bigger picture here. Dublin could easily have four under 14, under 16 and minor teams and the chances are that some of the combinations would meet in the Leinster final regularly. More importantly, it would give a much bigger number of players exposure to a much higher grade of football. At the moment there must be hundreds of very talented young players in Dublin who would walk on to many other county teams but never get a look-in with Dublin.

The opportunity of playing at a high level of football is what keeps a lot of young players interested. If it was with Dublin North or Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown would it make any difference? Hardly. As it is, a lot of talent drifts away in every county but this rate of attrition must surely be greater in Dublin even allowing for a lot of great clubs. The prospect of playing county football is a huge attraction in Croke Park and people would get used to a new name very quickly. Having greater numbers of underage teams would, eventually, lead to more than one side at senior level.

It would not suit the traditionalists and a swaying Hill 16 on a summer's day is a wonderful sight, but there will come a time when two teams from Dublin will meet in a Leinster senior final. Of course radical change like this would be very difficult and would involve setting up county boards

in new areas which may dilute the overall sponsorship take and create problems of identity for Dublin's current supporters.

At the moment, Dublin have a very exciting senior team with the introduction of many great young players. Sitting on the bench or not even getting a jersey is another team that would beat most other counties in Leinster. This is not a healthy situation for anyone but the players and management would certainly not want any change in the status quo until they have won at least one All-Ireland. This only goes to show that the best interests of the GAA in general and Dublin in particular are not the same on this topic.

Sooner or later, the turkeys will have to vote for Christmas. It would be better if Dublin started the process with at least two teams at all underage levels immediately which would give more of their own a chance and would show that fairness still means something.

It will take a brave Dublin chairman or secretary to propose this. The obvious thing to do is to sit back and say that helping to make the GAA a greater force is not their problem. Ultimately, though, it would be short-sighted not to realise that giving a bigger number of young footballers in Dublin a chance to play county football is in everyone's interest and is good for all other counties too.

http://eircomsports.eircom.net/News/news/gaa/EwanMacKennacolumn-2.aspx

Ewan MacKenna column: United they conquer, undivided and football falls

13:09, 27 Feb 2013 eircom Exclusive
Ewan MacKenna, Sports Journalist of the Year 2012

It seems like the announcement was made to a different world. Back in 2002, the Strategic Review Committee reported back their recommendations and the one that grabbed all the headlines involved splitting Dublin into two. Former GAA president Peter Quinn suggested that the county be separated at the Liffey for administrative purposes "to maximise penetration". But if the timing of the suggestion was off as it was far too radical for that era, and if the rationale was off too as Dublin have gone on and begun to maximise penetration as a united entity, it's a theory that hasn't gone away. All in all, Quinn and his group may have hit upon a good idea for the wrong reasons.

Last week, after a 37-point win in the Leinster under-21 football championship, heads were turned and voices were raised. On the other end of that humiliation were Carlow and their chairman Michael Meaney brought up some serious points that shouldn't be smothered by the laughter around the result. "It was a reflection on the massive gulf," he said. "You're talking about Dublin having 25 times the population of Carlow. For the 30,000 we've to pick a panel from, they've to get just one player. They just have the size, strength and numbers so that they can be selective with who they work with and their guys are into this from an early age right up through development squads."

Of course you've to look at your own garden first before giving out about the neighbour's. Also, you can overreact to a result between a heavyweight and a lightweight at this time of year. But that scoreline is part of a trend in football that will see the sport, in my view, move from elitism and close in on a monopoly over the next 15 years and that will be all down to Dublin doing things right.

When Quinn and his group brought out their proposals, the way Gaelic football worked was hugely different. Way behind professional sports, science was in its infancy and fitness and size were at a premium. Mick O'Dwyer could still take over lesser sides and have them compete and surprise bigger and better teams purely by not getting tired. Páidí Ó Sé could still send a bunch of players into a frenzy by breaking a table and that too could be enough to tip the balance. Passion often prevailed over preparation, tribalism could still overcome tactics, but that is happening less and less. Outside of Meath and Galway, in recent years the best counties have all gotten their houses in order in terms of everything from development squads to facilities to the coaching staff surrounding their seniors. It's led to less and less room for the little guy on the biggest days and that's even extended to the early part of the year where Division One is now populated by the best eight counties.

But this is just a resting place on the climb to where we are headed. The next stage involves even the better counties being unable to compete with Dublin. It's easy to look up the record books and show that the capital has three of the last four Leinster minor and under-21 titles, two of the last three under-21 All Irelands, and been to the last two All Ireland minor finals. It's easier still to take some outdated view and put it down to a purple patch that every county has and this just being a phase.

But look at the reasons behind the first part of that paragraph and you can disprove the second. Indeed that is vital as suggesting these things are cyclical is a disservice to the work Dublin have done and shows an ignorance towards the damage they could do. For, in an era of science over sweat, Dublin now have all the key ingredients to dominate and that isn't going away. In fact the more professional Gaelic football gets, the more Dublin will dominate.

Firstly they've the population. Half Ulster given the religious and political divide and Dublin not only has twice number of people as Connacht and a greater population than Munster, it also has a bigger population that the rest of Leinster and the Gaelic games playing community in the northern province. In short, forget a county, Dublin as a province would be the biggest in the country. Look at it this way, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown matches Kildare for numbers while both Fingal and South Dublin have populations that only Antrim and Cork are greater than.

But that has always been the case – if not quite as pronounced due to modern societal migration – and Dublin for their size have a relatively dire record in terms of being victorious. But combine population with other ingredients and matters become problematic.

It's basic economics that leads Dublin to have more money than everyone else but the work they have done has maximised their potential. They've a €1m-a-year main sponsorship deal. They have their official water supplier too, official Easter eggs, official calendars, official clothes. They even have Aer Lingus as their official carrier of choice replete with low-cost trips to the States over the next couple of years for both players and wives while a chunk of the panel are now driving Renaults as part of another deal. The money they get is spread over a greater area, yes, but such a comment is to neglect the huge economies of scale that are present and distorting the playing field further.

With unemployment lower in the capital, there's a better chance of keeping players in the country, and not only that, there's a better chance of finding jobs that allow those players time to train as their profile and commercial value is greater than that of non-Dublin players.  On top of that, the structures and organisation of the county board have put these circumstances to good use. Sure enough, you can only place 15 players on a pitch and there's only so much room on a bench, but Dublin are far more likely to find and mould elite players based on population, finance and framework. All that together and now it's a recipe for brilliant success for Dublin, but long term it's a recipe for disaster for the game.

If soccer had just one division that comprised of Manchester United in the Championship, we wonder how long it would still attract the interest and the attendances.

There are of course arguments against this. Some say Dublin have more people from abroad that will never play football and they've more competition from other sports. But I've never bought this. Look at immigration proportionately and it doesn't vary all that much. As for other games, growing up in Athy we had a choice of soccer, rugby, tennis, basketball, canoeing, horse riding and hockey to name but a few and that's the case in any rural town. These things are all relative.

None of this is Dublin's fault, mind. The basic premise of a nationalist sporting organisation wasn't on King John's mind when he visited this island in 1210. Instead he came up with a county system so administration would become easier. Eight-hundred-and-three years later and his borders have given Dublin a massive advantage. No one has ever claimed Gaelic football is fair and if it's not fair on the rest right now, it may not be fair on Dublin in the future when action is needed. We aren't suggesting breaking Dublin up right now but we are suggesting keeping a close eye on things over the next decade and being in a position to act accordingly. After all, even the Dublin County Board saw this coming.

In 2011, in their forward-thinking 'Blue Wave' document, they spoke of dominating the game at all levels.  They also spoke of requesting the status of a province, a permanent member on the GAA's most important body, the Management Committee, and a similar appointment on the executive of the Leinster Council on the basis that they feel the needs of Dublin require constant attention because of the numbers involved from top to bottom. None of those are outrageous demands. But to have all those things and to field one team is outrageous.

The next handful of years will show exactly why.

[Itchy]

I wonder would colm agree with another approach, leave Dublin as they are and amalgamate meath, kildare and west meath and then that new team could challenge Dublin. Sure 100 years of tradition would be down the toilet but sure Colm wouldn't worry about that.

[rodney trotter]

I wonder would colm agree with another approach, leave Dublin as they are and amalgamate meath, kildare and west meath and then that new team could challenge Dublin. Sure 100 years of tradition would be down the toilet but sure Colm wouldn't worry about that.

I think his point is more about the next 100 years of domination from Dublin.

[Shamrock Shore]

No way.

Instead of 10 counties we could not beat in Leinster we would then have 11.

Feck off.

[laoislad]

No way.

Instead of 10 counties we could not beat in Leinster we would then have 11.

Feck off.

That leaves one county that ye can bate...Wonder which one it is...

[Aaron Boone]

Dubs have only won two Sams in last 25 years, I'll wait to see this dominance coming. No big mention of Dublin hurling I note in the articles.

[Hill16 Blues]

Same old lazy journalist sh1te! On basis Kilkenny keep winning hurling All Ireland's they should be split into 4 teams. Kerry likewise cause they keep on winning football all Ireland's!

China have 200 times our population so they should be split 200 ways for international sport 'it's just not fair' that they have more people to pick from that us!

Surprised by orourke. Had figured him for decent enough commentator and journalist. Shows himself to be no better than that d1ckhead McKenna who has long & distinguished history of spouting sh1te.

[Zulu]

McKenna writes a lot of decent articles to be fair.

No big mention of Dublin hurling I note in the articles.

Why would there be? They've done little of real note in that code and most of the best dual players are choosing football so I'd imagine their domination of hurling is a way off yet.

I really don't agree with the idea of splitting Dublin but there is no point in ignoring the possible problems an overly dominant Dublin might pose for the GAA as a whole. A situation to be monitored but the idea of splitting Dublin would be worst case scenario stuff IMO.

[Donnellys Hollow]

It will never happen but it will be interesting to see if the recent trends at underage level continue. Dublin have got their act together and put great structures in place. There's great work being done and they are now in a position to harness their large population. This was something that was more of a hindrance up until recently because too many young players were lost through the cracks.

If they win the Leinster minor championship this year it will be their first three in a row at that level since the 1950s. If they go a year or two without winning a Leinster title at underage level then expect this debate to fade away very quickly.

I think both Kildare and Meath potentially have the resources to at least compete with Dublin into the future but it requires both county boards to get their respective houses in order and stop searching for quick fixes (particularly in Kildare's case). Counties like Carlow are always going to struggle given the demographics but splitting up Dublin is not going to provide the solution. The GAA and the Leinster Council need to look at ways that they can strategically invest in these smaller counties and get them up to a competitive level. A strong Dublin is indeed good for the GAA but I don't think a dominant Dublin would be particularly healthy for the organisation. If we're in a position in five or six years from now where Dublin are completing a clean sweep of Leinster competitions year on year then the game will begin to suffer in other counties.

[Hill16 Blues]

McKenna writes a lot of decent articles to be fair.

No big mention of Dublin hurling I note in the articles.

Why would there be? They've done little of real note in that code and most of the best dual players are choosing football so I'd imagine their domination of hurling is a way off yet.

I really don't agree with the idea of splitting Dublin but there is no point in ignoring the possible problems an overly dominant Dublin might pose for the GAA as a whole. A situation to be monitored but the idea of splitting Dublin would be worst case scenario stuff IMO.

So on that basis why not split Kilkenny or Kerry. Cork have dominated previously and actually have more club players than Dublin so why not split Cork too?? Dublin have 2 senior all Ireland's since 1983 and 2 minor titles! That's a serious state of affairs alright!

And no from Dublin perspective McKenna does not write decent articles as fair percentage involve derogatory comment & criticism of Dublin.

[Walter Cronc]

McKenna writes a lot of decent articles to be fair.

No big mention of Dublin hurling I note in the articles.

Why would there be? They've done little of real note in that code and most of the best dual players are choosing football so I'd imagine their domination of hurling is a way off yet.

I really don't agree with the idea of splitting Dublin but there is no point in ignoring the possible problems an overly dominant Dublin might pose for the GAA as a whole. A situation to be monitored but the idea of splitting Dublin would be worst case scenario stuff IMO.

So on that basis why not split Kilkenny or Kerry. Cork have dominated previously and actually have more club players than Dublin so why not split Cork too?? Dublin have 2 senior all Ireland's since 1983 and 2 minor titles! That's a serious state of affairs alright!

And no from Dublin perspective McKenna does not write decent articles as fair percentage involve derogatory comment & criticism of Dublin.

Where's Mc Kenna from??

[GalwayBayBoy]

Aren't Dublin already pretty dominant within Leinster? They've won 7 of the last 8 senior Leinster titles and that trend looks very likely to continue given that they have won 6 of the last 8 Leinster titles at U-21 and minor and some of those were won almost at their leisure.

Obviously maybe they have just hit upon a rich seam of talent in recent years which occasionally happens to some counties or else they have finally got the coaching and production lines working efficiently and are now in a position to reap the rewards of their huge population base.

[Zulu]

Dublin's history is irrelevant, it's the future that's being discussed. The point being made is that Dublin have got their act together now and are in a position to maximise the natural benefits they enjoy, i.e. population, finance, infrastructure etc. Kilkenny and Kerry have done well in one code but neither have distinct advantages over their rivals, sure Kerry may not win an All Ireland at any IC level in the next 10 years so comparisons are nonsensical in that regard.

You're only paranoid about McKenna.   

[Donnellys Hollow]

Aren't Dublin already pretty dominant within Leinster? They've won 7 of the last 8 senior Leinster titles and that trend looks very likely to continue given that they have won 6 of the last 8 Leinster titles at U-21 and minor and some of those were won almost at their leisure.

They went from 2003 until 2009 without a Leinster minor title. I think in the last three or four years we are beginning to see their work at underage bearing fruit but that's too small a sample to be labelling it as domination. If we're sat here in a five years time and they're sweeping the board in Leinster every year then this debate has some merit although I strongly believe that splitting up Dublin is not the answer.

Looking at it from a Kildare point of view, our record against Dublin teams is relatively poor and we would probably be one of the main beneficiaries of such a decision. However those rare occasions when a Kildare team beats a Dublin team wouldn't mean half as much if it was Dublin North or Fingal. It's up to our own county board (and others around Leinster) to stop looking for quick fixes and put proper structures and strategic plans in place to harness the considerable resources we have in our own county. Towns in North Kildare for instance have doubled in population in the last twenty years but I don't think our county board have seriously looked at any ways in which we could capitalise on this.

[Throw ball]

I wonder would colm agree with another approach, leave Dublin as they are and amalgamate meath, kildare and west meath and then that new team could challenge Dublin. Sure 100 years of tradition would be down the toilet but sure Colm wouldn't worry about that.

We have had tradition thrown at us in a different concept all my life. The up coming marching season will raise the point again. Tradition is not all its cracked up to be.