Keith Gillespie now favours All Ireland soccer team!

[Milltown Row2]

There is a de facto all ireland team in soccer at the minute, no need to change and bring troublemakers on board.

There is not a de facto all Ireland team - It would be fairer to say that there is a team made up of Irish born players from a nationalist background.  To date, to the best of my knowledge, approaches have not been made to young up and coming Northern Irish players from a protestant / unionist background.

There is a de facto all-Ireland team because players from the six counties who consider themselves Irish, a right guaranteed to them under the GFA you voted for, now feel confident enough to express their nationality after 70 years of having that identity discriminated against. Despite this they still have to deal with abuse from OWC heads for abandoning their, ahem, 'country', a 'country' that treated their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents as third class citizens in their own land. Your post also suggests the players we are referring to were somehow approached and had their heads somehow turned, but similar 'approaches' have not been made to players of a unionist/protestant background, which suggests some sort of sectarian agenda by the FAI... Bizarre. Come back to me when the Republic's captain is booed by his own fans because of his religion and has to give up his international career due to death threats

ese players are somehow traitors
Has it not been reported that young nationalist players are being approached?  To believe otherwise, is naive in my opinion.

I know footballers do have a reputation for being thick, but is it not equally naïve to not credit young players from the six counties proud of their Irish nationality with having a brain to make their own choice over who they play for, rather than blaming it on some bizarre conspiracy theory that allows OWCers to think they are being sinned against and these players are somehow traitors to their 'country'. Let's not forget, when McClean was by far and away the best player in the League of Ireland he was completely ignored by OWC while many a clown from the Irish League were given caps... And we all know why, don't we? By all means support your team and good luck to you, but don't be so naïve about why young Irish men from the six counties choose to play for THEIR country

Of course I fully appreciate how young nationalists would want to play for ROI.  I would just prefer it, howver, if they decided to do this before being developed by NI's Youth Development system and depriving another young player of representative honours.  The way your man Wilson went about things was fine.
I do, however, think young players should be left to make their decision without external influence, particularly if they have hitherto had no problem previously representing NI at under age level.  To suggest that young players are not being pressurised is wrong.  For example, do you genuinely believe that nobody from the FAI had been in Shane Ferguson's ear when he was deciding which way to jump?

Thats a very valid point michaelg, if they are so interested in playing for the ROI which I'd totally agree with (if it were there choice) then why not make in roads to play in those youth set ups. Doe the ROI want to wait to see if they are decent first maybe? As for the sectarian reasons for not selecting Catholics is that the same reason for the likes of O'Neill and Lennon being made captain's of the team? Strange decisions alright!!

[michaelg]

There is a de facto all ireland team in soccer at the minute, no need to change and bring troublemakers on board.

There is not a de facto all Ireland team - It would be fairer to say that there is a team made up of Irish born players from a nationalist background.  To date, to the best of my knowledge, approaches have not been made to young up and coming Northern Irish players from a protestant / unionist background.

There is a de facto all-Ireland team because players from the six counties who consider themselves Irish, a right guaranteed to them under the GFA you voted for, now feel confident enough to express their nationality after 70 years of having that identity discriminated against. Despite this they still have to deal with abuse from OWC heads for abandoning their, ahem, 'country', a 'country' that treated their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents as third class citizens in their own land. Your post also suggests the players we are referring to were somehow approached and had their heads somehow turned, but similar 'approaches' have not been made to players of a unionist/protestant background, which suggests some sort of sectarian agenda by the FAI... Bizarre. Come back to me when the Republic's captain is booed by his own fans because of his religion and has to give up his international career due to death threats

ese players are somehow traitors
Has it not been reported that young nationalist players are being approached?  To believe otherwise, is naive in my opinion.

I know footballers do have a reputation for being thick, but is it not equally naïve to not credit young players from the six counties proud of their Irish nationality with having a brain to make their own choice over who they play for, rather than blaming it on some bizarre conspiracy theory that allows OWCers to think they are being sinned against and these players are somehow traitors to their 'country'. Let's not forget, when McClean was by far and away the best player in the League of Ireland he was completely ignored by OWC while many a clown from the Irish League were given caps... And we all know why, don't we? By all means support your team and good luck to you, but don't be so naïve about why young Irish men from the six counties choose to play for THEIR country

Of course I fully appreciate how young nationalists would want to play for ROI.  I would just prefer it, howver, if they decided to do this before being developed by NI's Youth Development system and depriving another young player of representative honours.  The way your man Wilson went about things was fine.
I do, however, think young players should be left to make their decision without external influence, particularly if they have hitherto had no problem previously representing NI at under age level.  To suggest that young players are not being pressurised is wrong.  For example, do you genuinely believe that nobody from the FAI had been in Shane Ferguson's ear when he was deciding which way to jump?

In an ideal world I'd prefer them to go up through the FAI's structures, but you and I know the uproar and sectarian abuse from OWCers if the FAI had, in the past, attempted to establish such structures in the six counties ... which is just another example of the way young Irish players from the six counties were discriminated against in the statelet. In many ways these young lads had little choice but take the IFA route. Bottom line, I assume they were picked by the IFA at under age level because they were better than those round them. The like of McClean was still better than those round him (north and south) when he played for Derry City, yet he wasn't picked for the senior team while other eejits from the Irish League were, for purely sectarian reasons imo. McCourt and McGinn weren't exactly regular choices either for a long time when they were clearly better than some of the tubes given caps while playing at a similar level. As for Shane Ferguson, he made his choice, good luck to him, but he has, like the rest of us, got 2 ears, and I'm sure the IFA were in the other one, but at the end of the day it's down to the individual. To my knowledge young Ferguson hasn't been subject to the abuse from Ireland fans for his decision that OWC has heaped on McClean and Darron Gibson

So just to clarify, are you saying that selection is only based on sectarian grounds at full international level and that this is not the case at under age level?
If you had ever watched or taken any notice of Northern Irish football, you would know that selection is made on merit, with equal numbers of protestant and catholic players generally selected. 
With regards McClean, I'm not sure that many Irish League players were selected ahead of him when he was plying his trade in the LOI.  Colin Coates springs to mind, although he plays in a completely different position. 
As for McCourt and McGinn not being regulars for a while, this is because both were not playing regularly at club level (McCourt for Celtic and McGinn for Celtic and when at Brentford on loan). 
As for the IFA being in Ferguson's ear, is that not fair enough given that he come through the IFA system and is from Derry?  As for not getting stick from ROI fans, it's a completely different situation as he never represented them and then changed his mind and play for a different team.

Not from the North, but when Paddy McCourt was playing LOI with Derry City, Nigel Wortington constantly overlooked him. He was the best player in the League at the time by a Country Mile. Niall McGinn was also in very good form with Derry and was never selected until his move to Celtic.

Worthington clearly overlooked players from LOI, a league which is a better standard then the Irish League.

It was a good move by the IFA to appoint Michael O Neill for the sake of Northern Ireland football, as he doesn't have any agenda's with LOI having already managed in it and might help sway players from the Nationalist backgrond to play with Norn Iron.

Agree on Worthington overlooking players from LOI, but don't think this was based on sectarian grounds.  Also, as I said above, it's not like he was selecting lots of players fro the Irish League at the same time, which I agree is an inferior league.  The key point perhaps though, is that the LOI is still not a great standard which could explain what McClean and McGinn were overlooked when playing in it.  Lets also not overlook the fact that old Worthy was not the greatest manager, with some bizarre selections throughout his tenure, none more so than his persistence with Gorman from Wolves. 

[Orior]

George Best, a true blue for five minutes wanted an Irish team, it makes sense to everyone except the neanderthals, especially the one's up north.

I think we should forget about flying flags and singing anthems and just go out and play for the Country, the whole country, if i was a rugby head from the north and a Prod I probably wouldn't want to hear the irish National Anthem blaring out, the solution, feck them all and do without!

I'm a unionist with a small u.  Not voted since GFA (Yes vote by the way) and would vote Alliance if push came to shove.  The thing is I am a big supporter of the NI football team and resent being called a neanderthal for being so.  I have always gone to matches and want to continue to do so.
I do take your point re anthems / flags etc.  There should be no GSTQ at WP for NI football matches, nor should there be the Soldiers Song at Lansdowne Road for rugby internationals, or the Aviva, as I believe we are now meant to call it.

Hmmm, interesting. What is your view on the playing of our national anthem at Gaelic matches?

Don't have an issue with that at all, just don't see the point.  Particularly, if GAA is wanting to attract unionists / protestants to play Gaelic games.

Right so, ever since the Penal Laws the british have been trying to stamp out anything Irish, in Ireland. Our Irish language was driven to the corners of the provinces, Irish names were anglosized, our culture and religion surpressed etc etc. And today in the six counties things are not much different. The whole raison d'etre of the GAA was to stop the erosion of our culture. But yet you dont see the point of flying the tricolour? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I find your statement rather bizarre.

[armaghniac]

Right so, ever since the Penal Laws the british have been trying to stamp out anything Irish, in Ireland. Our Irish language was driven to the corners of the provinces, Irish names were anglosized, our culture and religion surpressed etc etc. And today in the six counties things are not much different. The whole raison d'etre of the GAA was to stop the erosion of our culture.

Ah now Orior, this was only the British exercising their right to be individuals, as even evil people have that right. A posting like that would lead to accusations of living in the past/ having no intelligence/ being opposed to everything decent/being as bad as the British.......

[michaelg]

George Best, a true blue for five minutes wanted an Irish team, it makes sense to everyone except the neanderthals, especially the one's up north.

I think we should forget about flying flags and singing anthems and just go out and play for the Country, the whole country, if i was a rugby head from the north and a Prod I probably wouldn't want to hear the irish National Anthem blaring out, the solution, feck them all and do without!

I'm a unionist with a small u.  Not voted since GFA (Yes vote by the way) and would vote Alliance if push came to shove.  The thing is I am a big supporter of the NI football team and resent being called a neanderthal for being so.  I have always gone to matches and want to continue to do so.
I do take your point re anthems / flags etc.  There should be no GSTQ at WP for NI football matches, nor should there be the Soldiers Song at Lansdowne Road for rugby internationals, or the Aviva, as I believe we are now meant to call it.

Hmmm, interesting. What is your view on the playing of our national anthem at Gaelic matches?

Don't have an issue with that at all, just don't see the point.  Particularly, if GAA is wanting to attract unionists / protestants to play Gaelic games.

Right so, ever since the Penal Laws the british have been trying to stamp out anything Irish, in Ireland. Our Irish language was driven to the corners of the provinces, Irish names were anglosized, our culture and religion surpressed etc etc. And today in the six counties things are not much different. The whole raison d'etre of the GAA was to stop the erosion of our culture. But yet you dont see the point of flying the tricolour? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I find your statement rather bizarre.

Flying the tricolour where?  If you are talking about at Gaelic matches, I would stand by my point above.

[Milltown Row2]

Right so, ever since the Penal Laws the british have been trying to stamp out anything Irish, in Ireland. Our Irish language was driven to the corners of the provinces, Irish names were anglosized, our culture and religion surpressed etc etc. And today in the six counties things are not much different. The whole raison d'etre of the GAA was to stop the erosion of our culture.

Ah now Orior, this was only the British exercising their right to be individuals, as even evil people have that right. A posting like that would lead to accusations of living in the past/ having no intelligence/ being opposed to everything decent/being as bad as the British.......

All occupying countries do this, had Ireland been a nation of colonizing countries we'd be accused of the same thing

But living in the past is what the marching season is all about, I prefer to look to the future, lived in the past and it was shite. If you keep bringing up the past so will they. Tits for tats!! Prefer what we have now and it will get better. Can't get any worse.

Getting away form the point of thread again it seems

[Gold]

Regarding the tricolour--it is Green (for the natives), orange for the followers of William and White for the hope of peace between the 2 sides. The lack of education/ignorance of the Unionist community to know/want to know this is startling.

As for the IFA youth structure: when i was only a 2 carrot Gold i knocked around a few youth NI Soccer set-ups. These were the form of NI Schoolboy teams. To my mind there was no provision to play for the ROI Schoolboy team as i didnt go to School there.

If i had of 'made it' i would doubtless have looked into playing for ROI Seniors as they were the only team i was interested in (no FAI man would have to have turned my head). Unfortunately i was shite and only ever told 'you dont play football, your there to stop others playing football'  and never had the problem.

Ive stated before: Windsor is  a s'hole. NI is not a nation as far as im concerned and meas nothing to me, its just a made up divided statelet based on gerrymandaring and invasion and will only be so for a drop in the ocean, a short period of time. Who would you be representing by playing for them? Bigoted Clive from Ards who only knows what his town means in its anglacised form, nothing of its history and original naming? Mervyn from Lisbellew who's family were given great land when they were planted there a few generations back?

Why do these people want to live in Ireland when they hate it so? Cant even say it they hate it so much--callling it Northern Allen.

[michaelg]

Regarding the tricolour--it is Green (for the natives), orange for the followers of William and White for the hope of peace between the 2 sides. The lack of education/ignorance of the Unionist community to know/want to know this is startling.

As for the IFA youth structure: when i was only a 2 carrot Gold i knocked around a few youth NI Soccer set-ups. These were the form of NI Schoolboy teams. To my mind there was no provision to play for the ROI Schoolboy team as i didnt go to School there.

If i had of 'made it' i would doubtless have looked into playing for ROI Seniors as they were the only team i was interested in (no FAI man would have to have turned my head). Unfortunately i was shite and only ever told 'you dont play football, your there to stop others playing football'  and never had the problem.

Ive stated before: Windsor is  a s'hole. NI is not a nation as far as im concerned and meas nothing to me, its just a made up divided statelet based on gerrymandaring and invasion and will only be so for a drop in the ocean, a short period of time. Who would you be representing by playing for them? Bigoted Clive from Ards who only knows what his town means in its anglacised form, nothing of its history and original naming? Mervyn from Lisbellew who's family were given great land when they were planted there a few generations back?

Why do these people want to live in Ireland when they hate it so? Cant even say it they hate it so much--callling it Northern Allen.

It's noteworthy how you you casually accuse all followers of the Northern Ireland football team, and it would seem, all protestants and unionists in Ireland of being bigots?  Is that not a fairly bigoted view you are adopting yourself there?

[Orior]

All occupying countries do this, had Ireland been a nation of colonizing countries we'd be accused of the same thing

But living in the past is what the marching season is all about, I prefer to look to the future, lived in the past and it was shite. If you keep bringing up the past so will they. Tits for tats!! Prefer what we have now and it will get better. Can't get any worse.

Getting away form the point of thread again it seems

I've lived in the past, and it was okay. I cant wait to live in the future, but I expect when I get there it will have been like living in the past. Okay, I'll stop now, lol.

[Myles Na G.]

Regarding the tricolour--it is Green (for the natives), orange for the followers of William and White for the hope of peace between the 2 sides. The lack of education/ignorance of the Unionist community to know/want to know this is startling.

As for the IFA youth structure: when i was only a 2 carrot Gold i knocked around a few youth NI Soccer set-ups. These were the form of NI Schoolboy teams. To my mind there was no provision to play for the ROI Schoolboy team as i didnt go to School there.

If i had of 'made it' i would doubtless have looked into playing for ROI Seniors as they were the only team i was interested in (no FAI man would have to have turned my head). Unfortunately i was shite and only ever told 'you dont play football, your there to stop others playing football'  and never had the problem.

Ive stated before: Windsor is  a s'hole. NI is not a nation as far as im concerned and meas nothing to me, its just a made up divided statelet based on gerrymandaring and invasion and will only be so for a drop in the ocean, a short period of time. Who would you be representing by playing for them? Bigoted Clive from Ards who only knows what his town means in its anglacised form, nothing of its history and original naming? Mervyn from Lisbellew who's family were given great land when they were planted there a few generations back?

Why do these people want to live in Ireland when they hate it so? Cant even say it they hate it so much--callling it Northern Allen.

Obviously your time in the education system wasn't wasted, judging by that effort.

[Gold]

Regarding the tricolour--it is Green (for the natives), orange for the followers of William and White for the hope of peace between the 2 sides. The lack of education/ignorance of the Unionist community to know/want to know this is startling.

As for the IFA youth structure: when i was only a 2 carrot Gold i knocked around a few youth NI Soccer set-ups. These were the form of NI Schoolboy teams. To my mind there was no provision to play for the ROI Schoolboy team as i didnt go to School there.

If i had of 'made it' i would doubtless have looked into playing for ROI Seniors as they were the only team i was interested in (no FAI man would have to have turned my head). Unfortunately i was shite and only ever told 'you dont play football, your there to stop others playing football'  and never had the problem.

Ive stated before: Windsor is  a s'hole. NI is not a nation as far as im concerned and meas nothing to me, its just a made up divided statelet based on gerrymandaring and invasion and will only be so for a drop in the ocean, a short period of time. Who would you be representing by playing for them? Bigoted Clive from Ards who only knows what his town means in its anglacised form, nothing of its history and original naming? Mervyn from Lisbellew who's family were given great land when they were planted there a few generations back?

Why do these people want to live in Ireland when they hate it so? Cant even say it they hate it so much--callling it Northern Allen.

It's noteworthy how you you casually accuse all followers of the Northern Ireland football team, and it would seem, all protestants and unionists in Ireland of being bigots?  Is that not a fairly bigoted view you are adopting yourself there?

Possibly so Michael. I really struggle to understand the Unionist mindset. Surely they MUST see that they have been planted in another land, a land that has its own language and culture. That they were given land and title (like the baddies in Braveheart) at the expense of the natives. They then continue to try and suppress the locals culture for generations and keep the other side (natives) down. If it was me i would be aware of this and it wouldnt sit well with me. I wouldnt feel like i had a culture, that i was properly of that land and its people. How could i? To the outside world it is wrong. Any right minded person could see that yet here we are supposed to doff our caps and accept it as the new 'norm.'

Off-topic i know but i just struggle with it and its acceptance. It is like we are all brainwashed, led by TV and radio.

I lived in south for long time--1st thing you realise is that you rule yourself. It sounds silly but its something you really notice. Own laws and self rule. Up here you feel like it is all England and you have no say (sure what does Stormount do?).

Secondly every advertisement on radio has local accents. This will again no doubt sound pedantic and maybe bigoted but that was a massive thing for me to get used to again when living up here. Majority of voices are English: "Gavin, 26, phoned Autoglass" etc etc. Even adds for local companies all have these English accents. Local News saying 'lets hear what will be on the 'National' News.'

It seaps into your thinking and again becomes normal. Why cant we have our own adds and everything.

Finally, sense of identity. Down there (apart from obvious foreigners) everyone knows who they are and have a sense of pride in Irishness. Up here your scared to show same. People here fight over identity, its a mess. We aren't Irish but are in Northern IRELAND ?? WTF? What are we? English?

[Orior]

Following on from Gold's post, the media are a classic case of being obsessed with England.

Local radio gives more time to english soccer and cricket than it does to any local sport (except local soccer).

You are more likely to hear how England rugby league team played against New Zealand than local hear all-ireland club rugby results.

The same with cricket.

[Milltown Row2]

All occupying countries do this, had Ireland been a nation of colonizing countries we'd be accused of the same thing

But living in the past is what the marching season is all about, I prefer to look to the future, lived in the past and it was shite. If you keep bringing up the past so will they. Tits for tats!! Prefer what we have now and it will get better. Can't get any worse.

Getting away form the point of thread again it seems

I've lived in the past, and it was okay. I cant wait to live in the future, but I expect when I get there it will have been like living in the past. Okay, I'll stop now, lol.

Yeah was grand, over 3000 murdered people lol for nothing!! even more funny......

[michaelg]

Following on from Gold's post, the media are a classic case of being obsessed with England.

Local radio gives more time to english soccer and cricket than it does to any local sport (except local soccer).

You are more likely to hear how England rugby league team played against New Zealand than local hear all-ireland club rugby results.

The same with cricket.

Not sure I entirely agree.  Local radio up here tends to focus on local sport in my opinion.  Rugby Union, for example, is centred around Ulster Rugby.  I may be wrong, but I don't think Rugby League is widely reported here as it neither a sport which is either widely played or followed.  As for the focus on English soccer, in my experience this is more prevelant in local stations in the Republic.  With regards to cricket, the English cricket score is given because followers of cricket in Northern Ireland are interested in it.  By the same token, they are also interested in Ireland cricket matches when they are taking place too, which are also regularly reported on in local radio.

[CC1]

Jaysus, judging by the most recent posts on this thread Keith Gillespie was on about some heavy stuff.