All Ireland senior football final 2012 Donegal v Mayo

[Crete Boom]

[I beg your pardon; I didn't explain what I meant properly.
I had been talking about cynical fouling and was thinking of what Brolly had said so I didn't stress this point enough.
BTW, I'm not taking a pop at Dublin or Joe Mac. The game belongs to history now.
But I am concerned at Brolly's subjective use of statistics.
I am afraid that what he and his likes are implying might influence Maurice Deegan's handling of the game to come.
I have no reason to doubt the ref's integrity but I do resent Brolly's remarks on the subject.
I have rewatched the video and I'm standing over what I have to say.

From the 55th minute onward to the final whistle,  the ref awarded a total of 12 frees.
7 were awarded to Dublin and 5 to Mayo. So, in terms of frees awarded, there was little between the sides.
Of the seven Mayo conceded, 4 were described by McStay  as cynical and I'd agree with him.
Of the 4, only two were blatantly obvious. the likes of the others were committed by both sides throughout the entire game. Both sides used jersey tugging, hands over the shoulder and the likes to their advantage.
Brolly ( in his piece on Hoganstand) claimed that Mayo committed a total of 27 tactical fouls throughout the game and came into it with this approach as part of their game plan. The fact is McQuillan failed to pick up on numerous fouls committed by both sides and the teams copped on fairly quickly that he wasn't up to the mark.
Each was as bad as the other in this regard.
So why go to town on Mayo's 'cynical' play to the exclusion of all other factors?

Fair enough. I misinterpreted your original post and you have explained tyour oint very well above.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about what Brolly has to say. I don't think he is regarded as a serious football pundit by anybody in the country so I can't see Maurice Deegan being influenced by his ramblings.

I would have to agree. Brolly compared to the other pundits has personalised so much of his criticism against referees (remember the way he derided a referees son when he was umpire in a Meath Kildare match) that I'd say most refs can't stand him about as much as supporters and players can't!

[sheamy]

Let's divorce our own prejudices from this issue for a second...the fact is that cynical or deliberate fouling, call it what you want, is a major part of today's game. That is not a good thing imo. Pundits are right to highlight it. I can understand frustration from Mayo people on what seems like a personalised attack from someone who is no stranger to such speaks.

Fact is however that very few pundits are prepared to take this on. Ewan McKenna did something similar when Kerry beat Tyrone in Killarney. If it's wrong, highlight it. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that.

[Tubberman]

Let's divorce our own prejudices from this issue for a second...the fact is that cynical or deliberate fouling, call it what you want, is a major part of today's game. That is not a good thing imo. Pundits are right to highlight it. I can understand frustration from Mayo people on what seems like a personalised attack from someone who is no stranger to such speaks.

Fact is however that very few pundits are prepared to take this on. Ewan McKenna did something similar when Kerry beat Tyrone in Killarney. If it's wrong, highlight it. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that.

Well Brolly spent years laughing and deriding Mayo for being too nice and a soft touch. He can't have it every way.
Anyway, I doubt James Horan gives a flying fck today what that little loudmouth thinks.

[sheamy]

I'd say Horan will be annoyed enough and will view it as an attempt to influence the referee - which it is. Brolly took great delight at having given Kerry ammunition with choker-gate and all that. It's sad really but the reality of most pundits, and alot of journalists, is that they are simply ego maniacs and not to be taken too seriously.

In All-Ireland finals referees tend not to be heavy on the bookings for fear of red cards and controversy. That will be a factor in the game. Both teams are expert at the cynical foul so it will be rife and the referee's interpretation of it (and consistency of that interpretation) will be key.

[kevmy]

I hope Keegan will start (I expect him too though - a finger injury while nasty wouldn't prevent him from doing most of the training). Boyle on the other hand I'm not certain about - having a virus can really drain you. I'm not sure he will have the 70 mins in him. Barrett may start with Boyle as impact sub.

Also a very nice touch for Mayo to name Andy Moran as a selector in the team sheet.

[Crete Boom]

Let's divorce our own prejudices from this issue for a second...the fact is that cynical or deliberate fouling, call it what you want, is a major part of today's game. That is not a good thing imo. Pundits are right to highlight it. I can understand frustration from Mayo people on what seems like a personalised attack from someone who is no stranger to such speaks.

Fact is however that very few pundits are prepared to take this on. Ewan McKenna did something similar when Kerry beat Tyrone in Killarney. If it's wrong, highlight it. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that.

I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that cynical fouling is wrong but you can't dismiss the total lack of credibility Brolly brings to any argument. Donegal committ cynical fouls like Mayo but when Brolly refers to Donegal he talks about a system that'll do anything to stop you , where as with Mayo it's cynical fouling that should be punished. The problem most people have with Brolly is that he picks a side based on no analysis and then hammers a team generally in an snide, arrogant and disgusting way consistently which might have the odd rational point somewhere hidden in the Brolly hubris!
  Also he latches on to a genuine problem or issue and twists it to have an attack on whatever county or player he wants to belittle just think of his comments about the Gooch and Kerry or Cork last year. I think this might be due to his training as a barrister where often the tactic is to muddy a valid point of view and turn it in your favour to sway an argument. So the biggest problem I have with Brolly is while he's right about cynical fouling he is using this in an underhand way at an opportune time to add weight to his view that Donegal will beat Mayo and this shifts the argument from any reasonable debate of the issue (as has manifested here) because he doesn't care as long as Joe's being heard!!

[sheamy]

totally agree

[gerrykeegan]

Thai Tims special for Sunday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG2n34DmPv4&feature=player_embedded

http://t.co/R18H80FI

[sans pessimism]

I'd say Horan will be annoyed enough and will view it as an attempt to influence the referee - which it is. Brolly took great delight at having given Kerry ammunition with choker-gate and all that. It's sad really but the reality of most pundits, and alot of journalists, is that they are simply ego maniacs and not to be taken too seriously.

In All-Ireland finals referees tend not to be heavy on the bookings for fear of red cards and controversy. That will be a factor in the game. Both teams are expert at the cynical foul so it will be rife and the referee's interpretation of it (and consistency of that interpretation) will be key.

You obviously dont know Jamsie

[omagh_gael]

Thai Tims special for Sunday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG2n34DmPv4&feature=player_embedded

http://t.co/R18H80FI

Brilliant!!

[Lar Naparka]

totally agree

And so do I.
Time to get of my posterior now and go visit some old friends here in beautiful downtown Swinford. Brolly & Co. don't bother me but any attempt to influence Maurice Deegan's opinions on the subject certainly does.
But, as a parting shot, I'd say cynical fouling as we saw it in the Mayo v Dubs match is only touching on the problem of professional fouls and the fact that they are becoming increasingly common. Feigning injury to have an opponent sent off or to get a free is another issue that needs to be addressed. Forwards who trap an opponent's hand and then fall to ground dragging their markers with them to draw a free-in need sorting out also.
Mayo doesn't own the copyright on any of them.

[Bod Mor]

Thai Tims special for Sunday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG2n34DmPv4&feature=player_embedded

http://t.co/R18H80FI

Brilliant!!

Unreal!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFtZPt3MAIQ

[seafoid]

Channel 191 on Sky now ..... i have the kids in bed and a few cans. Feeling like i'm at home !

That whole subculture of country singers from Westmeath and Roscommon who wear stetsons and call themselves after cities in the US is nuts.

[Rossfan]

From Roscommon

[cuconnacht]

Stuff Brolly and all belonging to him.
As a good Donegal friend put it when I asked him what he thought of JB, "I wouldn't give the full of me arse of burnt snow for thon Brolly fella."
Well, I wouldn't give the full of his arse of burnt anything for what anyone has to say about Mayo's 'cynical' approach. (Mind you very big man, even bigger arse.)
As I recall, Mayo gave away four frees in the last quarter after having the crap kicked out of them throughout the entire game, with two blood subs on and Kevin Mac forced to go back in.
Anyway, off to the shamrock and heather now until Saturdays so f**k the begrudgers.

4 frees in the last quarter my hole. They conceded 4 frees in injury time.

The best of luck to Mayo but don't be making stuff up.

I beg your pardon; I didn't explain what I meant properly.
I had been talking about cynical fouling and was thinking of what Brolly had said so I didn't stress this point enough.
BTW, I'm not taking a pop at Dublin or Joe Mac. The game belongs to history now.
But I am concerned at Brolly's subjective use of statistics.
I am afraid that what he and his likes are implying might influence Maurice Deegan's handling of the game to come.
I have no reason to doubt the ref's integrity but I do resent Brolly's remarks on the subject.
I have rewatched the video and I'm standing over what I have to say.

From the 55th minute onward to the final whistle,  the ref awarded a total of 12 frees.
7 were awarded to Dublin and 5 to Mayo. So, in terms of frees awarded, there was little between the sides.
Of the seven Mayo conceded, 4 were described by McStay  as cynical and I'd agree with him.
Of the 4, only two were blatantly obvious. the likes of the others were committed by both sides throughout the entire game. Both sides used jersey tugging, hands over the shoulder and the likes to their advantage.
Brolly ( in his piece on Hoganstand) claimed that Mayo committed a total of 27 tactical fouls throughout the game and came into it with this approach as part of their game plan. The fact is McQuillan failed to pick up on numerous fouls committed by both sides and the teams copped on fairly quickly that he wasn't up to the mark.
Each was as bad as the other in this regard.
So why go to town on Mayo's 'cynical' play to the exclusion of all other factors?

Dont no why ya bothered to explain that one,any fool etc.Cynical fouls my asss.A dublin team who knew their goose was cooked and it was die dog or shit the license time and a ref who,d let them away with assault and battery in aid of this,I digress.Mayo will always face 16 players on the field,win one and that will change,refs dont wanna make headlines and a mayo with rep will strike fear,as it is to them,"its only mayo ".Your right to be ref watchin but theres nothing we can do,its down to the boys,but beleive me refs pick up on all the hype,all of it.