Congress to Consider Rugby World Cup Role

[Rossfan]

Sabre rattling at best. The English and French annually whine at this time of the year and then it becomes more and more muted as all the Heineken Cup tickets sales and sponsorship money flows into their coffers.

They know full well a French-English cup wouldn't be anywhere close to as marketable as a European Cup. TV agreements especially dictate it's not going to happen. Some token concession and the RFU will skip and jump all the way to Twickenham like little school-girls.

The Celtic nations need the Heineken Cup far more than the English and French clubs do, and it is the audiences in England and France that bankroll the tournament. Yet you seem to think it is the Celtic nations who hold all the cards because . . . ?

Because he's Syferus and like the Lewis Carroll character - the world is whatever Syferus wants it to be.

GAA marketing has always been either non existent or a disaster.
The "second biggest competition" NFL/NHL is almost like a training manual of how not to run something and our greatest asset the Championships are looked on as " All we need to do is make fixtures" and they'll turn up.
Proper imaginitive marketing for last Sundays Tipp/Cats showdown would surely have brough in 70,000 at least.
Remember the Intl Rules was very well marketed during the noughties and were almost sell outs in Ireland anyway.

[deiseach]

Proper imaginitive marketing for last Sundays Tipp/Cats showdown would surely have brough in 70,000 at least.
Remember the Intl Rules was very well marketed during the noughties and were almost sell outs in Ireland anyway.

Fair point. I've been to a few of those games over the years yet I wouldn't miss it if it vanished. Hurling, on the other hand . . .

[screenexile]

To say the use of GAA stadia has not got "anything whatsoever" to do with the popularity of the provinces is pushing it a biteen too. The Munster v Leinster Heineken Cup Final was played before 82,000 in Croke Park a few years. That helped "market" that particular game, don't you think? Where would it have been played otherwise?

It was spectacular. Because so many of the crowd at All-Ireland finals are neutrals and those who are not neutral tend to be dispersed all over the ground, it meant that Croke Park never looked as splendid as it did that day with great blocks of blue facing off against great blocks of red. Which is kinda sad.

A particular bug bear of mine!!! All this "Atmosphere at an All Ireland Final" guff. The atmosphere's crap! It's basically Half Neutral and then the other half between the 2 competing Counties. . . what a load of shite!!!!

[Syferus]

Sabre rattling at best. The English and French annually whine at this time of the year and then it becomes more and more muted as all the Heineken Cup tickets sales and sponsorship money flows into their coffers.

They know full well a French-English cup wouldn't be anywhere close to as marketable as a European Cup. TV agreements especially dictate it's not going to happen. Some token concession and the RFU will skip and jump all the way to Twickenham like little school-girls.

The Celtic nations need the Heineken Cup far more than the English and French clubs do, and it is the audiences in England and France that bankroll the tournament. Yet you seem to think it is the Celtic nations who hold all the cards because . . . ?

And where exactly is the assumption that I said the Celtic teams hold all the cards? Both sides hold more than enough for a status quo with a few concessions. The break-away talk is sensationalism on French and English clubs at the very, very best. Basic bargaining tactic - "sure if we don't get what we want we'll take our ball home with us..".

[IolarCoisCuain]

On the marketing thing. Rugby is easier to market because it's a professional game. The whole purpose of the season is to put on a series of games for the entertainment of the paying public. Everything else is secondary to that.

The GAA is different. The senior inter-county football and hurling Championships are not the be-all and end-all of the GAA. The fundamental purpose of the GAA is to provide an avenue whereby as many people who wish to play Gaelic Games can do so. The GAA is about participation at parish level first and foremost, and creating an entertainment spectacle is almost an accidental by-product of that - an event that happens much further down the chain from the atomic, club, structure of the Association. So we can't compare like with like. Professional games are ideally suited to marketing, because they're professional entities devoted to creating an entertainment product. The GAA is completely different.

Sabre rattling at best. The English and French annually whine at this time of the year and then it becomes more and more muted as all the Heineken Cup tickets sales and sponsorship money flows into their coffers.

They know full well a French-English cup wouldn't be anywhere close to as marketable as a European Cup. TV agreements especially dictate it's not going to happen. Some token concession and the RFU will skip and jump all the way to Twickenham like little school-girls.

The Celtic nations need the Heineken Cup far more than the English and French clubs do, and it is the audiences in England and France that bankroll the tournament. Yet you seem to think it is the Celtic nations who hold all the cards because . . . ?

Because he's Syferus and like the Lewis Carroll character - the world is whatever Syferus wants it to be.

GAA marketing has always been either non existent or a disaster.
The "second biggest competition" NFL/NHL is almost like a training manual of how not to run something and our greatest asset the Championships are looked on as " All we need to do is make fixtures" and they'll turn up.
Proper imaginitive marketing for last Sundays Tipp/Cats showdown would surely have brough in 70,000 at least.
Remember the Intl Rules was very well marketed during the noughties and were almost sell outs in Ireland anyway.

That's a very interesting point. I was at a few of those games in 1998 and 2000 and, with my hand on my heart, I have no idea who won any of the games I was at. All I know is by ten o'clock each night I was wheel-barrow drunk, which was pretty much the plan all along.

The International Rules games were ideal as a marketing product. Once-off exhibition games, nobody bothered about who won or lost but really good excuse for a few pints at a time when money was suddenly plentiful in Ireland. But as games, their relationship with football is the same as the relationship with hamburger and steak.

[deiseach]

And where exactly is the assumption that I said the Celtic teams hold all the cards? Both sides hold more than enough for a status quo with a few concessions. The break-away talk is sensationalism on French and English clubs at the very, very best. Basic bargaining tactic - "sure if we don't get what we want we'll take our ball home with us..".

Let me get this straight. Almost all the revenue from the Heineken Cup comes from England and France. The rugby watching population in either of those countries is greater than that in the Pro12 countries put together. The clubs in England and France get a small proportion of their revenue from the Heineken Cup. Most clubs are not even in it in any given year. For the Celtic teams, it represents the vast majority of their revenue. The IRFU had figurative apoplexy when it was suggested that the Heineken Cup be made free-to-air. And yet, despite all that, you think the English and French clubs are happy to carry on the way things are with a few tweaks? The English and French own the bloody ball. If they walk off, it's game over.

[Rossfan]

On the marketing thing. Rugby is easier to market because it's a professional game. The whole purpose of the season is to put on a series of games for the entertainment of the paying public. Everything else is secondary to that.

The International Rules games were ideal as a marketing product. Once-off exhibition games, nobody bothered about who won or lost but really good excuse for a few pints at a time when money was suddenly plentiful in Ireland. But as games, their relationship with football is the same as the relationship with hamburger and steak.

Despite being primarily a local voluntary organisation the GAA should still be trying to maximise attendances at their big games as the money wouldn't do any harm at all. An extra 20,000 last Sunday would have generated around €600,000 which wouldn't go amiss. 
There are only a total of around 85 Senior Inter County Championship games of which about 40% could be defined as "Big" games.
So it wouldn't take that much effort to market these to try and raise attendances.

Not much difference between Hambrger and Steak at the end of the day - they both get ate ...... and you know the rest...

[Syferus]

And where exactly is the assumption that I said the Celtic teams hold all the cards? Both sides hold more than enough for a status quo with a few concessions. The break-away talk is sensationalism on French and English clubs at the very, very best. Basic bargaining tactic - "sure if we don't get what we want we'll take our ball home with us..".

Let me get this straight. Almost all the revenue from the Heineken Cup comes from England and France. The rugby watching population in either of those countries is greater than that in the Pro12 countries put together. The clubs in England and France get a small proportion of their revenue from the Heineken Cup. Most clubs are not even in it in any given year. For the Celtic teams, it represents the vast majority of their revenue. The IRFU had figurative apoplexy when it was suggested that the Heineken Cup be made free-to-air. And yet, despite all that, you think the English and French clubs are happy to carry on the way things are with a few tweaks? The English and French own the bloody ball. If they walk off, it's game over.

And there's almost no chance  it will come to that point. You're trying to portray a situation where the Heineken Cup is in serious jeopardy when all that's happening is one side is jockeying for better position.

English and French teams have been whining for the best part of a decade - if they were serious they'd have done it by now. All they want is either more places for their teams or more of the money. The competition will be continuing with all parties involved regardless.

[thewobbler]

Sabre rattling at best. The English and French annually whine at this time of the year and then it becomes more and more muted as all the Heineken Cup tickets sales and sponsorship money flows into their coffers.

They know full well a French-English cup wouldn't be anywhere close to as marketable as a European Cup. TV agreements especially dictate it's not going to happen. Some token concession and the RFU will skip and jump all the way to Twickenham like little school-girls.

The Celtic nations need the Heineken Cup far more than the English and French clubs do, and it is the audiences in England and France that bankroll the tournament. Yet you seem to think it is the Celtic nations who hold all the cards because . . . ?

Because he's Syferus and like the Lewis Carroll character - the world is whatever Syferus wants it to be.

GAA marketing has always been either non existent or a disaster.
The "second biggest competition" NFL/NHL is almost like a training manual of how not to run something and our greatest asset the Championships are looked on as " All we need to do is make fixtures" and they'll turn up.
Proper imaginitive marketing for last Sundays Tipp/Cats showdown would surely have brough in 70,000 at least.
Remember the Intl Rules was very well marketed during the noughties and were almost sell outs in Ireland anyway.

I'd agree with the sentiments about the national league, but I've said it quite a few times on here, there is no point in trying to market a competition unless the competitors really want to win it. And the attitude of most counties to national league wins, even national league titles, is of disdain rather than success. Only when that attitude is fixed can you expect anything but the hardcore support to go along to watch.


Re marketing in general, I'll tell you a few things. The iRFu spend next to nothing on marketing the 6nations. They don't have to, it's going to sell out anyway. Their sponsors get as much exposure for their tie-ins as they can, and it might feel like marketing, but it's not... it's product advertising.

The amount of money spent on the autumn series varies, but it's not that significant.


At club level they market better than the GAA, but there's a very simple difference. Leinster an Munster are marketed at entire provinces. It's easy to create and blitz a marketing campaign across a population that big. Eventually you'll catch enough passive supporters to fill seats.

Kilkenny vs Tipp is not the same thing. Hurling is a great sport, blah, blah, blah, it's true. But the game is of significant interest only to two small population centres. For everyone else it's a passive or curious interest, made weaker again by the fact that those two teams inevitably play each other every year at some time in Croke Park. There's no novelty factor.

So while I'm sure there's plenty of bright ideas or marketing our games, they should be based against real demographical data. If the draw of an AI semi final isn't strong enough, it isn't strong enough.

[trileacman]

Sabre rattling at best. The English and French annually whine at this time of the year and then it becomes more and more muted as all the Heineken Cup tickets sales and sponsorship money flows into their coffers.

They know full well a French-English cup wouldn't be anywhere close to as marketable as a European Cup. TV agreements especially dictate it's not going to happen. Some token concession and the RFU will skip and jump all the way to Twickenham like little school-girls.

The Celtic nations need the Heineken Cup far more than the English and French clubs do, and it is the audiences in England and France that bankroll the tournament. Yet you seem to think it is the Celtic nations who hold all the cards because . . . ?

Because he's Syferus and like the Lewis Carroll character - the world is whatever Syferus wants it to be.

GAA marketing has always been either non existent or a disaster.
The "second biggest competition" NFL/NHL is almost like a training manual of how not to run something and our greatest asset the Championships are looked on as " All we need to do is make fixtures" and they'll turn up.
Proper imaginitive marketing for last Sundays Tipp/Cats showdown would surely have brough in 70,000 at least.
Remember the Intl Rules was very well marketed during the noughties and were almost sell outs in Ireland anyway.

I'd agree with the sentiments about the national league, but I've said it quite a few times on here, there is no point in trying to market a competition unless the competitors really want to win it. And the attitude of most counties to national league wins, even national league titles, is of disdain rather than success. Only when that attitude is fixed can you expect anything but the hardcore support to go along to watch.


Re marketing in general, I'll tell you a few things. The iRFu spend next to nothing on marketing the 6nations. They don't have to, it's going to sell out anyway. Their sponsors get as much exposure for their tie-ins as they can, and it might feel like marketing, but it's not... it's product advertising.

The amount of money spent on the autumn series varies, but it's not that significant.


At club level they market better than the GAA, but there's a very simple difference. Leinster an Munster are marketed at entire provinces. It's easy to create and blitz a marketing campaign across a population that big. Eventually you'll catch enough passive supporters to fill seats.
Kilkenny vs Tipp is not the same thing. Hurling is a great sport, blah, blah, blah, it's true. But the game is of significant interest only to two small population centres. For everyone else it's a passive or curious interest, made weaker again by the fact that those two teams inevitably play each other every year at some time in Croke Park. There's no novelty factor.

So while I'm sure there's plenty of bright ideas or marketing our games, they should be based against real demographical data. If the draw of an AI semi final isn't strong enough, it isn't strong enough.

You make a good argument but that bit is contradictory. If two teams inevitably playing each other is counter-productive to marketing then surely the Leinster-Munster rivalry has reached absolute saturation point. Also whilst Tipp and the Cats are smaller population centres it shouldn't be extremely hard to draw supporters into these teams given the fact that most other sides are either too poor to make it into this competition or are already defeated. I'm from Fermanagh/West Tyrone, an absolute hurling wasteland, but in the last few weeks I've had several conversations about Galway, Kilkenny and Tipp hurlers.

In short what the GAA need is provincial loyalities to start being a player in team support, one of the most effective strategies they could employ is to pay high-ranking GAA personalities to make a series of derogatory comments about a region's style of football, players or supporters. Following Spillane's "puke football" remarks most of the North would have support any team against Free state opposition and attitude which has since waned greatly.

Aggravate North-South, Jackeen-Culchie, West v East and most importantly of all Meath v Everyone relationships and you'll spike interest in gaelic games.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Sabre rattling at best. The English and French annually whine at this time of the year and then it becomes more and more muted as all the Heineken Cup tickets sales and sponsorship money flows into their coffers.

They know full well a French-English cup wouldn't be anywhere close to as marketable as a European Cup. TV agreements especially dictate it's not going to happen. Some token concession and the RFU will skip and jump all the way to Twickenham like little school-girls.

The Celtic nations need the Heineken Cup far more than the English and French clubs do, and it is the audiences in England and France that bankroll the tournament. Yet you seem to think it is the Celtic nations who hold all the cards because . . . ?

Because he's Syferus and like the Lewis Carroll character - the world is whatever Syferus wants it to be.

GAA marketing has always been either non existent or a disaster.
The "second biggest competition" NFL/NHL is almost like a training manual of how not to run something and our greatest asset the Championships are looked on as " All we need to do is make fixtures" and they'll turn up.
Proper imaginitive marketing for last Sundays Tipp/Cats showdown would surely have brough in 70,000 at least.
Remember the Intl Rules was very well marketed during the noughties and were almost sell outs in Ireland anyway.

I'd agree with the sentiments about the national league, but I've said it quite a few times on here, there is no point in trying to market a competition unless the competitors really want to win it. And the attitude of most counties to national league wins, even national league titles, is of disdain rather than success. Only when that attitude is fixed can you expect anything but the hardcore support to go along to watch.


Re marketing in general, I'll tell you a few things. The iRFu spend next to nothing on marketing the 6nations. They don't have to, it's going to sell out anyway. Their sponsors get as much exposure for their tie-ins as they can, and it might feel like marketing, but it's not... it's product advertising.

The amount of money spent on the autumn series varies, but it's not that significant.


At club level they market better than the GAA, but there's a very simple difference. Leinster an Munster are marketed at entire provinces. It's easy to create and blitz a marketing campaign across a population that big. Eventually you'll catch enough passive supporters to fill seats.

Kilkenny vs Tipp is not the same thing. Hurling is a great sport, blah, blah, blah, it's true. But the game is of significant interest only to two small population centres. For everyone else it's a passive or curious interest, made weaker again by the fact that those two teams inevitably play each other every year at some time in Croke Park. There's no novelty factor.

So while I'm sure there's plenty of bright ideas or marketing our games, they should be based against real demographical data. If the draw of an AI semi final isn't strong enough, it isn't strong enough.

Spot on about the National League Wobbler. This "Day One" stuff they had earlier year about the League fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the thing. Pretending something is something it's not never works.

On the hurling. There were 22k at the Leinster Final, 40k at Galway vs Cork and now Galway are deeply unhappy about a 16k All-Ireland Final allocation. The marketing lesson there is that there is a big difference between an Event and a game. When you get big crowds at a game, it's because it's not a game anymore. It's become bigger than that. That was the thing with the Munster v Leinster Heineken Cup semi-final, and it seems to be happening next weekend with the Navy v Notre Dame game at Lansdowne Road. Food for thought for the marketeers.

[haze]

Sabre rattling at best. The English and French annually whine at this time of the year and then it becomes more and more muted as all the Heineken Cup tickets sales and sponsorship money flows into their coffers.

They know full well a French-English cup wouldn't be anywhere close to as marketable as a European Cup. TV agreements especially dictate it's not going to happen. Some token concession and the RFU will skip and jump all the way to Twickenham like little school-girls.

The Celtic nations need the Heineken Cup far more than the English and French clubs do, and it is the audiences in England and France that bankroll the tournament. Yet you seem to think it is the Celtic nations who hold all the cards because . . . ?

Because he's Syferus and like the Lewis Carroll character - the world is whatever Syferus wants it to be.

GAA marketing has always been either non existent or a disaster.
The "second biggest competition" NFL/NHL is almost like a training manual of how not to run something and our greatest asset the Championships are looked on as " All we need to do is make fixtures" and they'll turn up.
Proper imaginitive marketing for last Sundays Tipp/Cats showdown would surely have brough in 70,000 at least.
Remember the Intl Rules was very well marketed during the noughties and were almost sell outs in Ireland anyway.

I'd agree with the sentiments about the national league, but I've said it quite a few times on here, there is no point in trying to market a competition unless the competitors really want to win it. And the attitude of most counties to national league wins, even national league titles, is of disdain rather than success. Only when that attitude is fixed can you expect anything but the hardcore support to go along to watch.


Re marketing in general, I'll tell you a few things. The iRFu spend next to nothing on marketing the 6nations. They don't have to, it's going to sell out anyway. Their sponsors get as much exposure for their tie-ins as they can, and it might feel like marketing, but it's not... it's product advertising.

The amount of money spent on the autumn series varies, but it's not that significant.


At club level they market better than the GAA, but there's a very simple difference. Leinster an Munster are marketed at entire provinces. It's easy to create and blitz a marketing campaign across a population that big. Eventually you'll catch enough passive supporters to fill seats.

Kilkenny vs Tipp is not the same thing. Hurling is a great sport, blah, blah, blah, it's true. But the game is of significant interest only to two small population centres. For everyone else it's a passive or curious interest, made weaker again by the fact that those two teams inevitably play each other every year at some time in Croke Park. There's no novelty factor.

So while I'm sure there's plenty of bright ideas or marketing our games, they should be based against real demographical data. If the draw of an AI semi final isn't strong enough, it isn't strong enough.

Really? It couldn't have been a stronger AI Semi Final draw.... Best hurling team of all time taking on the only team of recent years capable of beating them... You wouldn't hear that if Real Madrid/Barca were in a Champions League Semi Final even allowing for the fact that there is little or no novelty factor as the two of them play each other umpteen times a year. It doesn't make any of the games between them any less compelling though regardless of how many times they meet.

I wonder is it a unique GAA thing that we don't like same teams meeting for a few years in a sequence. I know a lot of people who are sick of watching Cork and Kerry but I always wonder what harm is there in two of the best set of footballers in the country taking each other, maybe once or twice a year.

At the end of the day the GAA is complacent and when opportunity knocks as it did last week to get people talking and get more bums on seats in advance of the game they failed in my opinion.

[deiseach]

And there's almost no chance  it will come to that point. You're trying to portray a situation where the Heineken Cup is in serious jeopardy when all that's happening is one side is jockeying for better position.

English and French teams have been whining for the best part of a decade - if they were serious they'd have done it by now. All they want is either more places for their teams or more of the money. The competition will be continuing with all parties involved regardless.

The thrust of the Anglo-French proposal seems clear. They want the places allocated in the Heineken Cup to be based on performances in the Pro 12, something none (with the possible exception of the Welsh) of the Celtic countries want to happen. What form do you see any compromise taking?

[neilthemac]

A simple 'smart' membership card could help boost attendances and also track those people who need to be rewarded by their constant attendance at games.

If you go to league games or championship game then you scan your card and your attendance is logged. Credits are given for each game.

Then if your county gets to an All Ireland final you are put into a lottery for a ticket from your counties allocation. (if you have enough credits)

If your county doesn't get to the final you are still put into a lottery for neutral tickets.

Wouldn't be too hard to do. 2/3 scanners at each ground for league games (when there are lots of games on) and ensure more scanners for championship games.

I'm sick of people I know, who don't go to a game from one end of the year to the next, getting to go to All Ireland finals because they know someone on a county committee or some other position

[Lar Naparka]

A simple 'smart' membership card could help boost attendances and also track those people who need to be rewarded by their constant attendance at games.

If you go to league games or championship game then you scan your card and your attendance is logged. Credits are given for each game.

Then if your county gets to an All Ireland final you are put into a lottery for a ticket from your counties allocation. (if you have enough credits)

If your county doesn't get to the final you are still put into a lottery for neutral tickets.

Wouldn't be too hard to do. 2/3 scanners at each ground for league games (when there are lots of games on) and ensure more scanners for championship games.

I'm sick of people I know, who don't go to a game from one end of the year to the next, getting to go to All Ireland finals because they know someone on a county committee or some other position

+1
You've some great ideas here.