Observations from Croke Park Yesterday

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Was down for both the senior games yesterday. Not a bad day out and enjoyed the occassion. For the second half of the Donegal game we moved round to the hogan stand to get back to the car in decent time. Ended up in a Kildare section. Was very surprised how strong some of their fans were supporting Kerry.

At the start the two men behind were shouting finish them off Kerry (strange comment given they were getting beat) and shouting support for all the Kerry players by name. I initially assumed they were Kerry men but doubted it from their accent and when I turned around realised they were in Kildare colours. Loads of other Kildare fans were doing the same and getting annoyed with the referee and strongly supporting Kerry. Like to the point were they were getting physically worked up. I also witnessed Dublin men getting cross leaving the ground and getting in arguments with Donegal fans.

I know we get abuse in Ulster for supporting our own teams but I found it very strange how people who should have been totally neutral were so fired up supporting a team from another province. I was clapping for Donegal scores but would never have got so worked up over another county team. Its also strange to see so many neutrals supporting a team with 36 All Irelands against a big underdog with 1. I know I'd have been supporting Kildare against Kerry as the underdog or even the Dubs last year. Its always good to see new teams come through.

Is the Kerry support due to Donegal tactics? If it is I still don't fully understand. Can anyone honestly say they preferred the second half of the Kildare Cork game compared to Donegal Kerry? I found the Kildare second half extremely boring and could have went for a nap. I didn't see any neutrals around me getting worked up over this. The second half of the Donegal game was very interesting and we witnessed some wonderful Donegal defending and great counter attacking football (just wish they'd attack a bit more).

I think its an insult to players and managers intelligance if we want teams to play in a way that doesn't work to their strengths and involves them getting hammered. Two years ago Donegal played nice football and got hammered out of Crossmaglen and a year or 2 before that got destroyed by Cork in croke park. I absolutely hated watching both games - they were terrible as a spectacle. Yet there was no outcry over it. Donegal should be praised for how they've turned things round and become competitive at the top level given their limitations. I'd rather see more teams compete than get hammered.

I can see why there's a worry that all teams will follow their trend and change football. I hope this won't happen but no doubt someone is going to come along with a better way of playing and defeat Donegal's system. I'm looking forward to seeing Cork attempt it and have no doubt we'll get a more interesting semi final than some others in recent years.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Was down for both the senior games yesterday. Not a bad day out and enjoyed the occassion. For the second half of the Donegal game we moved round to the hogan stand to get back to the car in decent time. Ended up in a Kildare section. Was very surprised how strong some of their fans were supporting Kerry.

At the start the two men behind were shouting finish them off Kerry (strange comment given they were getting beat) and shouting support for all the Kerry players by name. I initially assumed they were Kerry men but doubted it from their accent and when I turned around realised they were in Kildare colours. Loads of other Kildare fans were doing the same and getting annoyed with the referee and strongly supporting Kerry. Like to the point were they were getting physically worked up. I also witnessed Dublin men getting cross leaving the ground and getting in arguments with Donegal fans.

I know we get abuse in Ulster for supporting our own teams but I found it very strange how people who should have been totally neutral were so fired up supporting a team from another province. I was clapping for Donegal scores but would never have got so worked up over another county team. Its also strange to see so many neutrals supporting a team with 36 All Irelands against a big underdog with 1. I know I'd have been supporting Kildare against Kerry as the underdog or even the Dubs last year. Its always good to see new teams come through.

Is the Kerry support due to Donegal tactics? If it is I still don't fully understand. Can anyone honestly say they preferred the second half of the Kildare Cork game compared to Donegal Kerry? I found the Kildare second half extremely boring and could have went for a nap. I didn't see any neutrals around me getting worked up over this. The second half of the Donegal game was very interesting and we witnessed some wonderful Donegal defending and great counter attacking football (just wish they'd attack a bit more).

There has always been a healthy mutual respect between Kildare and Kerry going all the way back to the rivalry of the 1920s and in recent times due to O'Dwyer's involvement with Kildare. There would be a large proportion of Kildare people who would have Kerry roots either due to the Land Commission or due to migration in the 70s and 80s to the commuter towns like Leixlip, Maynooth, Celbridge and Naas. A glance at many of the surnames on the current Straffan team for example would show the extent of the Kerry diaspora in Kildare. There was also a tradition of Kerry people stopping off to drink in pubs in the Kildare towns en route to All-Ireland finals in the 70s and 80s. Personally I cannot remember a collection of supporters that were as magnanimous as the Kerry crowd were after we beat them in 1998 (somewhat controversially after what looked a legitimate Kerry goal was disallowed) and I have had great respect for them ever since.

There are probably a lot of Kildare people who are still bitter over the defeat to Donegal last year too. The nature of that defeat would have been hard for a lot of people to take to have come so close and have it snatched away at the death. May explain to some extent why many Kildare people would shout against Donegal.

[Dinny Breen]

Whilst I started out neutral for this game yesterday I found myself cheering for Kerry as I just thought Donegal's tactical approach was just frustrating to watch and they don't play a game that can swing a neutral, it's very cynical and as discussed ad nausea is designed to frustrate the opposition and by jesus did it frustrate me to watch it. The last 10 minutes was compelling but the preceding 60 minutes was rubbish to watch. Best of luck to Donegal but I hope their not looking for affirmation from the neutral because it won't be coming from many, hopefully we'll see a Cork v Mayo final.

I would also agree with DH and just to add Kerry fans are simply the most gracious in defeat and humble in victory, they have no bandwagon supporters and pound for pound are the most knowledgeable supporters in the land.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Whilst I started out neutral for this game yesterday I found myself cheering for Kerry as I just thought Donegal's tactical approach was just frustrating to watch and they don't play a game that can swing a neutral, it's very cynical and as discussed ad nausea is designed to frustrate the opposition and by jesus did it frustrate me to watch it. The last 10 minutes was compelling but the preceding 60 minutes was rubbish to watch. Best of luck to Donegal but I hope their not looking for affirmation from the neutral because it won't be coming from many, hopefully we'll see a Cork v Mayo final.I would also agree with DH and just to add Kerry fans are simply the most gracious in defeat and humble in victory, they have no bandwagon supporters and pound for pound are the most knowledgeable supporters in the land.

I can see where you's are coming from with some of the comments particularly from Donnellys Hollow. I can't agree with the bit in bold above though, I can honestly say as a neutral I enjoyed the Donegal game more than the Kildare game overall. Really enjoyed the first half of the Kildare game but second half was terrible. If Donegal had adopted the same tactics they would have got a similar hammering from Kerry. I'd much rather see a team compete playing defensively than getting hammered. Can any neutral honestly say they enjoyed Cork Kildare more?

[Lar Naparka]

I don't like the Donegal style but that's not to say I don't admire it. They didn't come to town yesterday to provide entertainment for the masses; they came to win a game and they did so in style.
Kerry played into their hands by trying to work the ball in close rather than targetting Donaghy on the edge of the square. It's ironic that they got a goal at the end by doing just that even if it shouldn't have been allowed.
Donegal have been playing ultra-defensive football since McGuinness took over so Kerry knew what to expect before the ball was thrown in. This year they seem to have grown in confidence and their play has become more open. McGuinness did say after the defeat by Dublin last year that he was working to a three-year plan and that getting their defensive strategies right had been his first priority.
I don't know what his future development plans are but he seems to be on course right now.

[moysider]

I ve been very impressed both times I ve seen Donegal play live this year. Not every team plays the same and it would be shite if they did. Neither will other teams try to play like them ( not exactly but the game in general was getting more defensive anyway before Donegal emerged last year) and it wouldn t work for other teams. This is just a development of their natural short possession game. They won with a short game in 92. One of the usual suspects described them winning 92 AI even though they used crazy tactics - condemming their short game. Mo Dhuine would have liked if they played into Dublin hands by kicking possession away A full back like Matt Gallagher not kicking the ball in an AI final was big news back then - now there d be raised eyebrows if one did.

Donegal are simply the best at moving and keeping the ball under pressure and most counties would not have the culture to develop to that extent. Donegal were not even at their best yesterday. Fellas like Murphy, Kavanagh and Bradley can be a lot better. A fit Neil Gallagher is a huge boost also. I also thought they rushed and hurried stuff yesterday. They got fewer forward to support the inside 1or 2 and that was probably being conscious of Kerry s threat. They would have been more ruthless and adventurous in other games I saw them. The result was what mattered yesterday and they got it. If neutrals dont like it - tough.

I enjoy Donegal. I always like a team that can defend well and make few errors. I d prefer that to pretty watery stuff or the naive, technically dire,  disorganised stuff we often have to witness at club level.

I expect Donegal to win the AI and hope they do if we cant and I dont believe be can.

[Fuzzman]

I was in premium level Cusack yesterday with a good priest friend of mine from Galway.
My wife is from Funegal and the priest knows her family well so also has a fondness for Donegal.

We were surrounded by a lot of Kerry fans and the banter before hand was good. They were asking me how good is this Donegal team & some seemed a bit surprised that I thought they could beat them today.
5 mins into the game 3 Kerry lads came in and sat beside us. The lad sitting next to my friend was smoking which one of the stewards noticed and asked him to put it out.
One of his mates was sitting behind me and he had a Belfast accent and he was very vocal and full of bad language. So at one stage I told him to keep it down a bit as he shouting in our ear.
He then's has a wee natter with me and he was dead on actually. Was from Belfast but was brought up a lot in Kerry and now lives there full time. Plays for Laune rangers and knew a good few of the Kerry team well he said.
So we continue shouting for our own teams (adopted team for me) but into the second half the lads went a bit quiet as it seemed Kerry were gonna lose.
The lad next to the priest then was spotted drinking a beer which he had to leave outside then.
Then when they got the goal and the next point he jumps up and shakes his fist into the priest's face and comes out with a huge barrage of a cursing vicious attack to both of us.
So I got up and told him to sit down and have some manners. I said I am as loud as anyone shouting when there is scores but you don't go over and get in a man's face like that. Right out of order. He wasn't drunk but just obviously put out by our support for Donegal.

So I told his mate behind me to have a word with him before it gets out of hand. There were Cork and Armagh lads behind him who were shocked as well. But of course his  Belfast born buddy was washing his hands of him and saying he can say what he wants.
Me & the priest were totally shocked how he could have sat there the whole game and not said too much and then burst into such a state of rage into our faces. Had we been the fighting type he would have got a punch in the mouth for that behaviour.

So whilst there are of course some gracious in defeat Kerry fans, there are as many arrogant well out of order disgraceful fans.
At the end of the game yer man stormed off and his pal with the Belfast accent starts asking me why am I supporting Donegal anyway and sure they've beaten you twice now in the last 2 years and I bet you hated them a month ago. I just laughed.

On the other hand completely, when Tyrone were winning things back in the mid 2000s, I too felt the hatred and anti Tyrone feeling from lots of other counties. Everyone is out to knock you off your perch & it's very frustrating to hear so called neutrals being anything but neutral. This sadly is part of the game lads and some of the totally unrealistic chat on here shocks me.
People have been hating Kerry for a long time and whilst many others admire them like I do myself to a degree, they are often glad to see them beaten to give other teams a chance.
I know men in their 70's and 80's who feel the same way and my father in law, a good Donegal man God rest his soul, would have loved to have been there yesterday to see Donegal beat Kerry. He loved watching Tyrone beat them 3 times in the last decade but yesterday would have been the best for him had he been alive.

[Dirk Diggler]

Kerry can't deal with Ulster teams and they will train their guns on the latest bogey team , Donegal, now. Full of patronising condecension to obliging losers when they win, but the shallow facade of sportsmanship goes out the window in a hail of bitterness and spite whenever a county has the temerity to beat them. Expect their yerrayerra operatives in the media to launch all out assault on anything Ulster in the new year.

[omagh_gael]

Jaysus Fuzz, you've awful bad luck with your neighbours in Croker! The priest should've decked him, that would've have been some craic.

[Fuzzman]

The priest is a big lad aka Daddy Pig & he has glasses too.



In fairness to the other Kerry lads around us they all shook our hands
The Cork lads behind us were in stitches all game

[ross4life]

I got soaked to the skin walking into Croker thankfully i was under the stand to dry off. Feck all in for minor game with little or no atmosphere it's time to play these minor quarter finals in smaller venues. Con Houlihan minute applause was well observed, the Kildare v Cork game was enjoyable until the 2nd half again the atmosphere was flat. Donegal v Kerry was intriguing game everyone knows how McGuinness sets up his team and Spillane and co told us Kerry would kick over the blanket in the end it looked like Donegal would run out easy winners but to kerry's credit they went down fighting.

The atmosphere for the final 20mins was excellent and the hills of Donegal was a good choice of tune at end.

[trileacman]

The priest is a big lad aka Daddy Pig & he has glasses too.



In fairness to the other Kerry lads around us they all shook our hands
The Cork lads behind us were in stitches all game

Pig Daddy?

[haranguerer]

I find it incredible that people can give out about donegals 'cynical' and 'negative' style. Where did yous pick that up from? For it hasnt been any of donegals games this year.

Yesterday was a great game to watch, and it has to be blinkers that gives this defence v purist argument. Watch the game again, and try to be neutral, and watch how many runners were taken out by kerry. Its not even a criticism of them, kerry are the benchmark, and they're an awesome team with superb players. I'm just pointing out that as a good measure of cynicism, kerry were the greater perpetrators yesterday.

Perhaps its the only way people can justify  a kerry loss, people love to proved right after all, and need to find some excuse when they're wrong. But I fail to understand how any gaa fan cant appreciate a team completely owning kerry for long periods, and i find it hard to attribute it to anything but bitterness.

Lastly, I also fail to understand how people didnt think yesterday was a great game. Imo it can only be again because their favoured team was owned, but ffs, surely sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say 'fair fucks'. There was some cynicism from both teams, as there is from all teams in modern football, but it was workrate, teamwork, and great skill which won that game for donegal, not negativity or cynicism. 

[trileacman]

I find it incredible that people can give out about donegals 'cynical' and 'negative' style. Where did yous pick that up from? For it hasnt been any of donegals games this year.

Yesterday was a great game to watch, and it has to be blinkers that gives this defence v purist argument. Watch the game again, and try to be neutral, and watch how many runners were taken out by kerry. Its not even a criticism of them, kerry are the benchmark, and they're an awesome team with superb players. I'm just pointing out that as a good measure of cynicism, kerry were the greater perpetrators yesterday.

Perhaps its the only way people can justify  a kerry loss, people love to proved right after all, and need to find some excuse when they're wrong. But I fail to understand how any gaa fan cant appreciate a team completely owning kerry for long periods, and i find it hard to attribute it to anything but bitterness.

Lastly, I also fail to understand how people didnt think yesterday was a great game. Imo it can only be again because their favoured team was owned, but ffs, surely sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say 'fair f**ks'. There was some cynicism from both teams, as there is from all teams in modern football, but it was workrate, teamwork, and great skill which won that game for donegal, not negativity or cynicism.

It is coy to say that Donegal are the only team to be negative or cynical but it is also coy to say that cynicism and negativity are not a huge part of Donegal's success.

Combating cynicism in the game would hurt Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry, Dublin and those dirty mead hoors most of all. It would allow a more level playing field where teams with abundant talent could compete at the top level eradicating those "hammerings" you talk about. A change in the rules would have meant the old naive Donegal could have competed with Tyrone and Armagh's cynicism of the last 10 years. Likewise Mayo, Dublin and Cork would have beaten the Kerry/Tyrone/Armagh dominance of the last 10 years.

You can't defend the way Donegal play by saying "sure it'd be great if we all played that way and we had good, tight, exciting (for the final 10 minutes) 0-05 to 0-06 matches."

[haranguerer]

With all due respect, I think you're talking rubbish. And if you're not, break it down for me.

How are donegal cynical? And i dont want just general cynical play outlined (they do this, they do that) - specify it to donegal. The winning of that match was about 20 minutes in the second half where kerry couldnt find a man in donegals half, they were put under incredible pressure, and the ball was turned over time after time. Are you confusing great defence with cynicism? Because it seems some certainly are. Where in that period did donegal block runners, foul, hit men off the ball, or do whatever it is you think cynical play enscapulates?

As for negativity? Wise up. Where do you get that from?