Has the Back door become Redundant?

[Rossfan]

Those involving New York perhaps?

[BennyHarp]

Apologises if this has been posted before, but apparently the GPA have produced proposals for discussion;

GPA head of communications Seán Potts confirmed the official players' body have sent a submission to the Football Review Committee (FRC), which will draft a motion on a possible structure change for next year's Congress.

However, he stressed there wasn't consensus on the idea and envisages the process of the GAA finding a viable alternative to the current structure to be more divisive than the debate surrounding the playing rule changes.

While none of the four models put forward proposed to retain the provincial competitions, feedback from the GPA membership indicate support for it to be kept in some shape or form.

One of the proposals was an out-and-out Champions League model, eight seeded groups of four based on league standings with each county playing three round-robin games.

The top two in each of the eight divisions would go into the knockout stages, with table-toppers in one group and runners-up in another.

The bottom 16 would enter the Tommy Murphy knockout competition and the recommendation would also see the end of the National League finals.

The GPA's committee, which featured Martin McHugh, Dick Clerkin and Ciarán Whelan, also put forward as an option a more club-friendly Champions League format, allowing club games to take place every second weekend.

"We've sent our findings to the FRC and it's obvious there is no easy answer," acknowledged Potts. "The findings are somewhat contradictory. There's no consensus within the playing body. Players want change, they're overwhelming in favour of that, because of the back door system, the lag between games and you see fellas going away for the summer, which isn't ideal. However, the aspirations of players was also reflected in their responses with some calling for the retention of the provincial structure in some form. It's a realistic goal in some counties, but how that would be done while making changes is the question."

The closest GPA proposal to the current provincial system is the Whelan-proposed Conference format, suggesting the four competitions be replaced by groups, with Wexford and London moving to the South (ie Munster) and Donegal, Longford and Westmeath to the West (Connacht).

They would be run over eight weeks in February and March, the top two counties in each qualifying for the four finals in April.

The top five counties (20 total) in each conference would then qualify for the All-Ireland championship group stages with the remaining 12 in the B championship.

In the A competition, the 20 sides would be divided into four groups of five, each of them getting four games, with the top team in each qualifying directly for the All-Ireland semi-finals with the second and third-placed teams drawn in the quarter-finals.

Potts says there was a lot of backing for the former Dublin midfielder's idea.

"Players want a longer sequence of games but they also need a series of meaningful games. There's a lot of support for Ciarán Whelan's idea of changing the National League into four conferences and then the make-up of the championship being dictated by league positions.

"It also reduces the distance travelled by teams in the spring and there's the possibility then of Wednesday and Friday night games."

The Summer League format splits the All-Ireland SFC into two groups of 16 (Division 1 and 2 teams in one group and 3 and 4 in the other) and replaces the National League with an open draw All-Ireland Cup competition.

The first group would be separated into two sub-divisions of eight with each team playing the other seven prior to the top four in each progressing to All-Ireland quarter-finals. The Division 3 and 4 competition would be run off similarly, with promotion and relegation between the two groups.

The FRC have already stated any proposal they are likely to put forward to Congress next year will be based on the current provincial system.

[haze]

Apologises if this has been posted before, but apparently the GPA have produced proposals for discussion;

GPA head of communications Seán Potts confirmed the official players’ body have sent a submission to the Football Review Committee (FRC), which will draft a motion on a possible structure change for next year’s Congress.

However, he stressed there wasn’t consensus on the idea and envisages the process of the GAA finding a viable alternative to the current structure to be more divisive than the debate surrounding the playing rule changes.

While none of the four models put forward proposed to retain the provincial competitions, feedback from the GPA membership indicate support for it to be kept in some shape or form.

One of the proposals was an out-and-out Champions League model, eight seeded groups of four based on league standings with each county playing three round-robin games.

The top two in each of the eight divisions would go into the knockout stages, with table-toppers in one group and runners-up in another.

The bottom 16 would enter the Tommy Murphy knockout competition and the recommendation would also see the end of the National League finals.

The GPA’s committee, which featured Martin McHugh, Dick Clerkin and Ciarán Whelan, also put forward as an option a more club-friendly Champions League format, allowing club games to take place every second weekend.

“We’ve sent our findings to the FRC and it’s obvious there is no easy answer,” acknowledged Potts. “The findings are somewhat contradictory. There’s no consensus within the playing body. Players want change, they’re overwhelming in favour of that, because of the back door system, the lag between games and you see fellas going away for the summer, which isn’t ideal. However, the aspirations of players was also reflected in their responses with some calling for the retention of the provincial structure in some form. It’s a realistic goal in some counties, but how that would be done while making changes is the question.”

The closest GPA proposal to the current provincial system is the Whelan-proposed Conference format, suggesting the four competitions be replaced by groups, with Wexford and London moving to the South (ie Munster) and Donegal, Longford and Westmeath to the West (Connacht).

They would be run over eight weeks in February and March, the top two counties in each qualifying for the four finals in April.

The top five counties (20 total) in each conference would then qualify for the All-Ireland championship group stages with the remaining 12 in the B championship.

In the A competition, the 20 sides would be divided into four groups of five, each of them getting four games, with the top team in each qualifying directly for the All-Ireland semi-finals with the second and third-placed teams drawn in the quarter-finals.

Potts says there was a lot of backing for the former Dublin midfielder’s idea.

“Players want a longer sequence of games but they also need a series of meaningful games. There’s a lot of support for Ciarán Whelan’s idea of changing the National League into four conferences and then the make-up of the championship being dictated by league positions.

“It also reduces the distance travelled by teams in the spring and there’s the possibility then of Wednesday and Friday night games.”

The Summer League format splits the All-Ireland SFC into two groups of 16 (Division 1 and 2 teams in one group and 3 and 4 in the other) and replaces the National League with an open draw All-Ireland Cup competition.

The first group would be separated into two sub-divisions of eight with each team playing the other seven prior to the top four in each progressing to All-Ireland quarter-finals. The Division 3 and 4 competition would be run off similarly, with promotion and relegation between the two groups.

The FRC have already stated any proposal they are likely to put forward to Congress next year will be based on the current provincial system.

The bit in bold. Now usually with all these revamp ideas you'd almost need a pen and paper to keep up but am I missing something!? 4 winners of each group go to semi's and 2nd and 3rd go to quarters? Is this quarters of B competition?

[Rossfan]

I can't warm to the idea of 4 Regional Leagues with teams of all standards thrown in. At least with the present Divs 1 to 4 there is competitiveness between teams of similar standards and exciting finishes.
With 5 going to an A Competition you would have an awful lot of issues sorted out long before Round 7.
The proposed "Southern division" would see some awful trimmings and you could nearly name the B Qualifier teams before a ball was kicked.
Also a sh1te team from a weaker Region could make the "A" Championship while stronger teams from another Region would end up in the "B" Championship.
Also who'd be bothered with a B championship if winning it meant you wouldn't automatically got to the "A" one?

Personally I think the Provincial Championships have to stay and why not?
You can still have them ( even as stand alones with no bearing on any new AI series) plus an early season NFL AND an All Ireland Championship(s) with space for Club championships to run concurrently during the "High" summer months.

[Captain Obvious]

One of the proposals was an out-and-out Champions League model, eight seeded groups of four based on league standings with each county playing three round-robin games.

The top two in each of the eight divisions would go into the knockout stages, with table-toppers in one group and runners-up in another.

The bottom 16 would enter the  and the recommendation would also see the end of the National League finals.

Don't know why Gaelic football has to copy soccer? the Champions league is only set up that way to make money and it's the knock out stages before it gets interesting. At least the National league brings more interest than Tommy Murphy knockout competition ever will.

[From the Bunker]

The back door has only had one team make the semi finals in the last 16 attempts. Why all those games over the last 4 years just to have one team make a semi final. Is it time to say goodbye to the back door?

[Syferus]

The back door has only had one team make the semi finals in the last 16 attempts. Why all those games over the last 4 years just to have one team make a semi final. Is it time to say goodbye to the back door?

No.

Convenient tailoring there too, Bunker - both AI finalists in 2010 were qualifiers.

[From the Bunker]

The back door has only had one team make the semi finals in the last 16 attempts. Why all those games over the last 4 years just to have one team make a semi final. Is it time to say goodbye to the back door?

No.

Convenient tailoring there too, Bunker - both AI finalists in 2010 were qualifiers.

Oh I know that. I ask this question every year at this stage of the competition. There just seems to be no real competitor coming from the back door for the last couple of years. In the old days, Sligo, Fermanagh, Westmeath would give it a bash. That romance seems to be dead?

[Rossfan]

There seems to be no serious competitor coming from anywhere to match the Colossus.

[BennyHarp]

There seems to be no serious competitor coming from anywhere to match the Colossus.

And both semi finals will feature the same counties in both minor and senior. I wonder when the last time that happened?

[From the Bunker]

96 games played in the Back Door over four years and only one County to beat a front door county in the Quarter Finals. Is it time to go back to straight knock out? This is just a waste of time and money!

[muppet]

96 games played in the Back Door over four years and only one County to beat a front door county in the Quarter Finals. Is it time to go back to straight knock out? This is just a waste of time and money!

That would be 1 out of 16 though, rather than 1 out of 96?

[From the Bunker]

96 games played in the Back Door over four years and only one County to beat a front door county in the Quarter Finals. Is it time to go back to straight knock out? This is just a waste of time and money!

That would be 1 out of 16 though, rather than 1 out of 96?

Yeah said that earlier. My point is that all these games are losing their value. You can see certain counties that don't care about the back door anymore. I am even finding I'm taking less heed of these games than i used to take. Are they just delaying the inevitable and destroying club football?

[Rossfan]

96 games played in the Back Door over four years and only one County to beat a front door county in the Quarter Finals. Is it time to go back to straight knock out? This is just a waste of time and money!

No Quarter Finals = 115,000 at average €20 ( kids/long term tickets taken into account) loses 2,300,000.
I'm sure the other 24 games would have generated €1.25m??

[manfromdelmonte]

It could definitely do with some tweaking.
Format is getting quite stale.

The national leagues need to be trimmed down for less games - more divisions with less teams in each.