Has the Back door become Redundant?

[screenexile]

I think that some kind of Senior/Intermediate/Junior system needs to be in place. Kerry playing Waterford/Clare or Donegal playing Fermanagh/Antrim does nobody any good whatsoever.

I think it needs to go to some kind of seeded Champions League format for it to work out with possibly having the Junior & Intermediates playing off for a QF/Semi Final position in the AISFC so that EVERY team has a chance to win the All Ireland as they currently do. Also whichever team comes through that test will be better prepared to take on the big guns.

[seafoid]

I think that some kind of Senior/Intermediate/Junior system needs to be in place. Kerry playing Waterford/Clare or Donegal playing Fermanagh/Antrim does nobody any good whatsoever.

I think it needs to go to some kind of seeded Champions League format for it to work out with possibly having the Junior & Intermediates playing off for a QF/Semi Final position in the AISFC so that EVERY team has a chance to win the All Ireland as they currently do. Also whichever team comes through that test will be better prepared to take on the big guns.

Fermanagh would have beaten Donegal a few years ago. The notion that Donegal will be big guns in a few years is laughable. Ask Meath .

[seafoid]

Are the rivalries more intense in Ulster than in the rest of the country?
Were you sickened when Derry won in 93 for example? 

I was quite pleased for Derry.
Fermanagh beat Armagh in the QF in a game in which we should have won and where we had a good shot at progressing to the AI Final. Quite upsetting.

That Armagh team should have won more than 1 all Ireland alright.

[Syferus]

Are the rivalries more intense in Ulster than in the rest of the country?
Were you sickened when Derry won in 93 for example? 

I was quite pleased for Derry.
Fermanagh beat Armagh in the QF in a game in which we should have won and where we had a good shot at progressing to the AI Final. Quite upsetting.

That Armagh team should have won more than 1 all Ireland alright.

You can look at it just as easily from the other direction - Sligo had them beat in 2002 and if they had would anyone have clamoured about a team that were knocked out by Sligo and Fermanagh two out of three years? Of course not.

Sport is best when the margins are fine, our target shouldn't be to have 'teams playing at their level' but figuring out how to get more teams playing at the top level. Breaking the monopoly of D1 teams and moving back to a 1A and 1B system in the league is the low hanging fruit but it needs to only be the first step.

[Milltown Row2]

If counties (especially my own) get their house in order and raise the standard then I believe the open draw is worth a shot

errr.....if counties are not competititive because they haven't "got their house in order" then it doesnt really matter what system is in place.

That's true and we'll have to do that, It's just the giving the bigger teams another go that annoys me, if they happened to be shocked in a game they were fancied to win then tahts good ( i.e club All Ireland style).

To play Kerry in Casement in the first round would be grand, the result may be what we would predict but would generate some interest, well up here anyways, as it is, we'll be out next week against Louth if we don't up it a gear or six

[screenexile]

I think that some kind of Senior/Intermediate/Junior system needs to be in place. Kerry playing Waterford/Clare or Donegal playing Fermanagh/Antrim does nobody any good whatsoever.

I think it needs to go to some kind of seeded Champions League format for it to work out with possibly having the Junior & Intermediates playing off for a QF/Semi Final position in the AISFC so that EVERY team has a chance to win the All Ireland as they currently do. Also whichever team comes through that test will be better prepared to take on the big guns.

Fermanagh would have beaten Donegal a few years ago. The notion that Donegal will be big guns in a few years is laughable. Ask Meath .

Yeah but if Fermanagh begin to flourish at their level and progress they will be better equipped to play a big gun (It's Donegal now but of course that will change from time to time). At the minute it's pointless for those 2 to be playing eachother in the Championship.

[Zulu]

Yeah, doing away with the only real cash cow outside Dublin at Croke Park that the sport has is no real loss.

Doing what you said would have a devastating effect on the funding of other loss-making grades of the sport, particularly clubs, nevermind the effects on senior itself.

Jesus wept, are you incapable of thinking something through? If you devise a format, like the one I proposed, you will lose some things but gain others. If you take my system, then you could have 3 or 4 live TV games every week and 20+ important, competitive IC games on every week for 8 or 9 weeks. Then your into do or die championship for around 8 weeks so the overall gate receipts will increase significantly, advertising revenue and TV money will increase significantly also so the overall pot is hugely increased and everyones a winner.

[Zulu]

No harm but to pick a few incidents does not mean it is not taken serious. There is no doubt the companionship is taken more seriously but to say that counties don't treat it serious is baffling, do they go out to lose on purpose.

You want club championships to be played before the summer. No harm but what county is going to play their flagship competition in bad conditions by choice.

The GAA sells itself on local rivalry, ask any Louth fan who'd they would like to play in the championship and it will 99% of the time be Meath, if you tell them they are away to Cork, you'll have no one at the game. You have more chance of counties local to each other getting attendances even if a hammering is to be dished out, look at Mayo and Roscommon for example.

Anyway the great thing it'll never change.

I picked a few incidents out of many, how many would prove you wrong? Not taking it seriously and going out to lose are two very different things, if I play 5 a side soccer I don't take it seriously but I still want to win and still give a bit of effort but it isn't the same as when I play championship football. If you pay into an IC match you should be seeing two full strength teams, well prepared and fully focused on winning, anything else should be for the challenge match circuit.

I don't want club championships to be played before the summer, where did you get that?

The GAA doesn't sell itself on local rivalry, it's part of it but it isn't the only thing. Anyway, are Kilkenny Waterford or Kilkenny Tipp not local rivalries? How about Clare and Galway or Cavan and Meath, or Roscommon and Westmeath? All prevented from happening regularly due to the provincial format. Kerry Tyrone was far more important to fans in the 2000's than Kerry Limerick or Tyrone Antrim which are local rivalries are they not? As for attendances, well all formats will still produce games between counties close to each other.

Anyway the great thing is it will change as more and more people use logic rather than.....well I don't know what you're using but it ain't logic. I only hope I see it sooner rather than later.

[deiseach]

Jesus wept, are you incapable of thinking something through? If you devise a format, like the one I proposed, you will lose some things but gain others. If you take my system, then you could have 3 or 4 live TV games every week and 20+ important, competitive IC games on every week for 8 or 9 weeks. Then your into do or die championship for around 8 weeks so the overall gate receipts will increase significantly, advertising revenue and TV money will increase significantly also so the overall pot is hugely increased and everyones a winner.

Show us a sample championship weekend in your system and then we can evaluate how many important, competitive games we can all look forward to.

[orangeman]

Yeah, doing away with the only real cash cow outside Dublin at Croke Park that the sport has is no real loss.

Doing what you said would have a devastating effect on the funding of other loss-making grades of the sport, particularly clubs, nevermind the effects on senior itself.

Jesus wept, are you incapable of thinking something through? If you devise a format, like the one I proposed, you will lose some things but gain others. If you take my system, then you could have 3 or 4 live TV games every week and 20+ important, competitive IC games on every week for 8 or 9 weeks. Then your into do or die championship for around 8 weeks so the overall gate receipts will increase significantly, advertising revenue and TV money will increase significantly also so the overall pot is hugely increased and everyones a winner.

You're right Zulu but this penny has yet to drop with the provincial councils.

Heads need banged together.

[Zulu]

Jesus wept, are you incapable of thinking something through? If you devise a format, like the one I proposed, you will lose some things but gain others. If you take my system, then you could have 3 or 4 live TV games every week and 20+ important, competitive IC games on every week for 8 or 9 weeks. Then your into do or die championship for around 8 weeks so the overall gate receipts will increase significantly, advertising revenue and TV money will increase significantly also so the overall pot is hugely increased and everyones a winner.

Show us a sample championship weekend in your system and then we can evaluate how many important, competitive games we can all look forward to.

If the league is linked to championship and teams are seeded on the basis of their performance in the league then take any round of the leagues just finished (football and hurling as both are played on the same weekends) and take that as your sample. Now bear in mind that this isn't mid February but probably April and May so all teams are up to speed and playing their strongest teams. So you could be travelling to see Waterford play Cork in the pairc in May but also getting to see Cork against the Dubs as part of a double header for example. As long as supporters know the teams are trying and you'll see the best players on the pitch not in the seats beside you then many fixtures could draw big crowds especially as at least one team is at home.

[deiseach]

If the league is linked to championship and teams are seeded on the basis of their performance in the league then take any round of the leagues just finished (football and hurling as both are played on the same weekends) and take that as your sample. Now bear in mind that this isn't mid February but probably April and May so all teams are up to speed and playing their strongest teams. So you could be travelling to see Waterford play Cork in the pairc in May but also getting to see Cork against the Dubs as part of a double header for example. As long as supporters know the teams are trying and you'll see the best players on the pitch not in the seats beside you then many fixtures could draw big crowds especially as at least one team is at home.

You haven't answered my question. You said "you could have 3 or 4 live TV games every week and 20+ important, competitive IC games on every week for 8 or 9 weeks". You've given me one double header in hurling and football. Who would the Waterford footballers be playing that weekend? Would anyone be watching the Dublin hurlers?

[Walter Cronc]

Would it be feasible to have groups within each province, thus keeping everyone happy?

2 in Ulster and Leinster and 1 each in Munster and Connacht.

[Zulu]

I have answered your question;

then take any round of the leagues just finished (football and hurling as both are played on the same weekends) and take that as your sample

So to clarify, on any given weekend you'd have 4 division 1, 2, 3 & 4 football games (4X4 = 16 football games) and 4 division 1 & 2 hurling games (2 X 4 = 8 ) so 24 games in total. You'd have division 3 & 4 games in hurling too but they wouldn't feed into the Liam McCarthy.

You'd have games on Saturdays, Sundays and, if possible Fridays and double headers when you can.

[deiseach]

I have answered your question;

then take any round of the leagues just finished (football and hurling as both are played on the same weekends) and take that as your sample

So to clarify, on any given weekend you'd have 4 division 1, 2, 3 & 4 football games (4X4 = 16 football games) and 4 division 1 & 2 hurling games (2 X 4 = so 24 games in total. You'd have division 3 & 4 games in hurling too but they wouldn't feed into the Liam McCarthy.

You'd have games on Saturdays, Sundays and, if possible Fridays and double headers when you can.

Why do you think anyone would be more inclined to watch those games than the current League games? Look at the qualifier games coming up. As amaghniac pointed out, Antrim v Louth is a genuine knockout match between two (relatively) evenly matched teams. The winner takes one step close to Sam Maguire, the loser goes home. Somehow I don't think it'll be an all-ticket affair. Yet despite this, you think setting up the League in such a way that the games will lead to Antrim v Louth-style knockout matchups will actually boost interest in the League encounters? Let me put it this way. I don't see RTÉ or TV3 beating down the GAA's door to televise three or four of those matches every weekend.