Tipperary v Down

[johnneycool]

Always loved going to Clones for Ulster Finals.  I have not been there for a good few years now, but can not see the Tipp v. Down game being played there.  It is much too far away from Tipperary to be even considered.   Really looking forward to the game, wherever it is played.   Tipp are really in bonus territory now and despite yesterday's result Down are still a Div. 1 team and for people of my generation Down are very much a county that we admire for all the great players that they produce.  I see that Paddy Power have Down at 2/5 and Tipp at 5/2 and I suppose that those odds are about right.  Should be a good day.

Tipp and Down played a hurling quarterfinal in Clones a good few years ago, mid nineties possibly, so someone in Croke park must consider it a halfwayhouse, not sure how that works though!

[snoopdog]

I Believe the AI Hurling quarter final between Down and Clare is on before the Tipp Down game.
These young lads need the support so hopefully as many Down people as possible will aim to go for both. I know i will. might be the only Quarter Final we get to all year.

[Onlooker]

That Tipperary/Down hurling quarter final was in 1997, Johnneycool.  Tipp had been beaten by Clare in the Munster Final and Down won the Ulster Championship.  Mullingar it is next Saturday at 4 pm.

[Onlooker]

I Believe the AI Hurling quarter final between Down and Clare is on before the Tipp Down game.
These young lads need the support so hopefully as many Down people as possible will aim to go for both. I know i will. might be the only Quarter Final we get to all year.

They will probably get some support from the Tipperary people that arrive early as well.

[Pangurban]

Realistically lads this will be a stroll in the Park for a Down team needing to salvage some pride. Tipp. a reasonable side but far behind Down in terms of ability

[Aristo 60]

Good for football if Tipp can win this one and they have the opportunity to do it given the porous Down defence.

I guess you'd be equally supportive to Down's cause should they make a big break through and face tipp in the hurling next year??

[Onlooker]

Realistically lads this will be a stroll in the Park for a Down team needing to salvage some pride. Tipp. a reasonable side but far behind Down in terms of ability

Down and Tipperary played 3 times in 2009 & 2010.  Down won the Div. 3 NFL match in Thurles.  Tipp won the Div. 3 Final in Longford (after extra time) and the Div. 2 NFL match in Newry was a draw.   Down are favourites all right, but you should not be expecting any stroll in the park.

[Mourne Rover]

Anyone who thinks that Saturday will be a stroll in the park for Down needs to look at the record of beaten provincial finalists when they have a qualifier six days later. Only one county has managed win in those circumstances since the open draw was introduced in 2001. It is clear that losing a provincial title - and few teams will have taken a bigger thumping in a final than Down yesterday - has a draining effect, while the side progressing through the previous qualifying rounds has usually put together two or more consecutive victories and will be on a roll.

Tipperary are still a division three side, but when most of the same players were involved in the 2009 D3 play-off they deservedly beat us. The following year, the only game we failed to win in D2 was against Tipperary in Newry. They are among the favourites to retain the AI minor title they won last year, and are already introducing several of those youngsters at senior level.

While we should have more quality in our squad, we looked a tired and dispirited bunch in the final quarter at Clones and the management have a big task in lifting our heads. Hopefully, James will be bold, re-jig the defensive set-up, bring in some fresh legs and leave most of the injured veterans on the bench until if and when they are needed.

It will be a tight call between McVeigh and Harrison in nets, but both are fine keepers. Gordon was again effective at full back yesterday but he may be required to steady the ship at midfield in Mullingar, and McArdle should be capable of holding the square for us. Duffin and O'Hagan are not specialist corner backs, but they would offer pace and aggression against what will probably be two deep lying corner forwards.

Garvey is certain to get a recall, and Rooney and McParland would complete a physically strong half back line. Ambrose and Dan would work well at midfield, as King seemed to take a heavy knock in Clones and was a doubtful starter anyway.

Poland is assured of his place and taking off Carr was probably a mistake yesterday so he should return. The other half forward needs to act as a spare defender and support the midfield, so McKernan,who will be well aware of his flaws on Sunday, might get another chance. His best game so far this season was at wing half forward away to Laois, and we actually got worse after he went off yesterday.

Laverty is another certain starter, and Doyle could be named in the corner and given a free role. Benny needs to be held back, together with Hughes and Maginn, until fully fit, and, while McCartan did well after appearing at half-time, McConville is overdue his championship opportunity.

The suggestion therefore is McVeigh/Harrison; Duffin, McArdle, O'Hagan; McParland, Garvey, Rooney; Rogers, Gordon; McKernan, Carr, Poland; Laverty, McConville, Doyle; but there will be plenty of other opinions about.

It will be well worth getting there early to see a fine Down minor hurling team who will need all the support they can get against the hot favourites Clare in the AI quarter final.

[extra time]

tight call for goalkeeper!!! whats that all about. you,ve been knocking Brendy Mac on this board for a couple of years now, so wise up man and take your glassdrummond glasses off. Btw when did you figure out young Shane had a longer clearance than Brendy. He,ll get his chance, but will have to bide his time.

[whitegoodman]

MR whilst i like the majority of your team I would have a couple of issues with it.

To me Dan Gordon has to stay at FB, he has been an immense presence for us there and I would argue that he is now a better FB than midfielder. (I await Leo's backlash)  I would keep him there and play McArdle in the corner.

I would also keep Ohare in the full forward line as I think him and Laverty could give the Tipp defence the runaround like the fermanagh defence.  I would hope there would be a bit more space for our smaller forwards this wk than there was against Donegal.  My team would therefore be

McVeigh
OHagan
Gordon
McArdle
McParland
Rooney
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Carr
Poland
McKernan
OHare
Laverty
Doyle

Unfortunately i dont see James doing this and I dont think he will drop Dan McCartan or Brannigan and I dont see McParland or Rooney starting.

The starting line up imo is more likely to be

McVeigh
McCartan
Gordon
OHagan
Brannigan
McArdle
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Maginn/McKernan
Poland
Carr
Ohare
Laverty
Doyle

Its a toss up between Carr, McKernan and Maginn as to who starts at wing forward id say.

[Mourne Rover]

Extra Time, the post above says that Down are blessed with two fine goalkeepers, which is hardly a criticism of Brendy McVeigh who has been an outstanding servant for us. If he is selected for Saturday, he will be as reliable as ever between the posts.

However, it is a simple fact that any team which concedes 2-18 in an Ulster final needs to review all aspects of its defensive structure. Several young players, including Shane Harrison, are pushing hard for a starting spot against Tipperary, and that can only be a healthy development.

Reviewing the goalkeeping position is not our main priority, but it cannot be excluded from the discussion. We all know that some changes are essential, and, if we make the right decisions overall, we will be in an AI quarter final.

Whitegoodman is right to say that Gordon has been excellent at full back, but McArdle is also fully capable of playing there and we will need to get an immediate grip at midfield in Mullingar.  King fairly clearly picked up an injury at Clones, and may be a better option coming off the bench.

As Laverty will again be a key figure for us, it will be taking a big chance to include another very light forward like O'Hare in the forward line against a physically strong Tipperary side. We have some very talented players up front, but we need to get the balance right.

[PAULD123]

whiteGM, in the end I have come round and you have convinced me to the idea of Gordon playing full-back. We need to stop goals going in. I have also finally accepted that McKernan can not be trusted in defence. He opened up the space to allow the Donegal runs down the middle. If we assume Hughes and Benny should be rested then we need a slight re-shuffle. Doyle is also carrying an injury but in his case I think match practice is more important. Also why develop players like McConville and McParland throughout the league only to discard them for the championship even though they have done nothing wrong? I would like to see:

McVeigh
McCardle - Gordon - O'Hagan
Garvey - Doyle - McParland
King - Rogers
Maginn/McKernan - Poland - Carr
Laverty - McConville - O'Hare

But I don't think shuffling the players or adjusting the starting line-up is the key issue. I think all the players listed between us are good enough to be picked. It is not the individual talent that is the problem but the attitude. The players have to be dedicated to a system and buy-in to it completely. Our players did not buy-in and when it went wrong they lost belief in it and turned into individuals. The management can not do anything when the players reject the plan and do not buy-in. The plan is there for good and bad to bring an eventual result it can not be abandoned just because the opposition have had a good ten minute spell. On Sunday we were 3 behind with over 15 to go, nearly 20 including injury time. My thinking is that lack of discipline cost us not bad player selection by the management.

[In the Onion Bag]

tight call for goalkeeper!!! whats that all about. you,ve been knocking Brendy Mac on this board for a couple of years now, so wise up man and take your glassdrummond glasses off. Btw when did you figure out young Shane had a longer clearance than Brendy. He,ll get his chance, but will have to bide his time.

Although you prob use glassdrummond as part of you wum act the is no glassdrummond Sth Down as far as I know.  You'll find one in Tyrone, Arma Sth, east Down and Fermanagh, etc.
Sth Down does however, have a Glasdrumman meaning small green hill which anyone knowing the area will immediately know how accurate the original Irish was in describing places.

Sorry to be so sensitive about this important detail abut incorrect spelling reinforces ancient attempts to deny the Irish language heritage of the area.

[bcarrier]

After the beating Down got last week you would have to wonder whether the players wont be looking beyond Tipp and thinking whether they really want to face Cork Dublin or Mayo in a Quarter Final. Tipp are probably investing more into underage football than any county right now and are far from a pushover even if the Down boys can pick themselves up.

If Down were facing Wexford next week how confident would supporters be ?

[Leo]

MR whilst i like the majority of your team I would have a couple of issues with it.

To me Dan Gordon has to stay at FB, he has been an immense presence for us there and I would argue that he is now a better FB than midfielder. (I await Leo's backlash)  I would keep him there and play McArdle in the corner.

I would also keep Ohare in the full forward line as I think him and Laverty could give the Tipp defence the runaround like the fermanagh defence.  I would hope there would be a bit more space for our smaller forwards this wk than there was against Donegal.  My team would therefore be

McVeigh
OHagan
Gordon
McArdle
McParland
Rooney
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Carr
Poland
McKernan
OHare
Laverty
Doyle

Unfortunately i dont see James doing this and I dont think he will drop Dan McCartan or Brannigan and I dont see McParland or Rooney starting.

The starting line up imo is more likely to be

McVeigh
McCartan
Gordon
OHagan
Brannigan
McArdle
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Maginn/McKernan
Poland
Carr
Ohare
Laverty
Doyle

Its a toss up between Carr, McKernan and Maginn as to who starts at wing forward id say.

Funny enough WGM despite my oft stated preference for A natural midfielder to be selected in that position, I have to admit that had Gordon been allowed to stay on the square on Sunday we would not have been suckered by so many readable moves through the big gap which we left in front of goal leading to easy scores for our opponents (not for the first time).

As for the suggested teams, I cant see O'Hare starting but McKernan (for all his failings) will along with his McCartan clubmates. The Burren man I'd really want to see on the field is Declan Rooney as per your selection -  but is he fit?

Both your selections seem to be acknowledging that Hughes & Coulter are not fit - and should not have been used on Sunday. I am in grave danger of agreeing with you.