Roscommon v Tyrone AI Round 2 Qualifier

[hsthompson]

Matthew Donelly was half forward on that team and started today. Patrick McNeice was full-forward I think? He's on the senior squad this year

[tyssam5]

Yeah this year has seen a lot of lads get their chance, with a few of the older guys still around. Nice mix this year, hope they keep a qualifying run going to give the young lads some experience for a push next year.

[ross4life]

More than i thought came through so, Mattie Donnelly,Coney were the main forwards on show that day. For the record of the 08 minors Neill Collins,Niall Daly Cathal Shine, Niall Kilroy,Darren McDermott played a part in today's game a bad experience but some senior championship experience nonetheless.

[Syferus]

You'd give yourself a headache trying to make sense of the tilt-a-whirl that is Roscommon senior football at the moment.

In 2010 we get relegated to Division 4, we win the Connacht title, we play for 50 minutes against Cork and fall to pieces. 2011 rolls around  and we get promtoed from Division 4 at a canter, get well beaten by Longford. We almost beat Mayo to put back-to-back Connacht titles together. We play well for 60 minutes against Tyrone and then fall through the floor faster than an Olympic diver.

This year we veered wildly from good to bad and back again even within single passages of play. An up and down league was followed by one of our most complete collapses of all-time against a Galway side who clearly were very average indeed. And then we derailed Armagh in stellar fashion, securing a victory over out-of-Connacht opposition that ranks higher than any we, Galway or Sligo have achieved since 2003.

And then today. I thought we'd show much more consistency today but the only consistent thing about today was inconsistency. Another 11-point defeat to Tyrone and this time Tyrone were full value for those 11 points. And yet even the most ardent Tyrone supporter couldn't say this was a better game than the one the sides produced last year. At times both sides played almost comically lateral football and it was a game littered with errors by almost everyone. The fact we managed to lose more comprehensively to a worse Tyrone effort (and honestly,  a worse team in general) says today goes straight into the bank alongside the Galway result.

Yet after 30 minutes we had a gimme free to go - deservedly - 5-4 up and we fluffed it. Tyrone looked incredibly ordinary in the first half, with loose and slow passing, a nonexistent midfield and far too much running into contact. At halftime, ever after a few sucker punch Tyrone points put them up three I  felt the game was still very much in our own hands, playing into a solid wind in the second half and having played the better football. I  certainly was more upbeat than halftime against Armagh, with Armagh's first half performance certainly elapsing Tyrone's today.

The turning point in the game was also a dark little reversal of the Armagh game, conceding a goal via a deserved penalty. That made it a six point lead for Tyrone with over 30 minutes left to play. This is where the wheels really came off.

Six down is far from an insurmountable lead, let alone at home and playing with a strong wind. We continued to win plenty of ball in the middle but some of the attacking play made it look like someone had taught us this sport last week.  Senan is a player of no small amount of talent, a player who on his day can rip apart even the best defences in the country. He had his worst day in a Roscommon jersey today. Donie, Cathal and Ger all dropped good 50:50 ball into him and he won absolutely none of it. He managed to slip on a dry pitch far too many times as well. His only good moment was a wonderful leveler in the first half, which only makes his nonperformance more upsetting.

Our half-backs played some crazy ball when they got a head of steam up in the second half. Tyrone had really started to funnel men back and to apply the original version of the blanket defence but so much of the passes we made in their half were lazy and completely lacking vision that Tyrone didn't need to try very hard. Cathal Shine also attempted some advised long-range shots but at least he got as far as shooting, which is more than can be said for most of the team in the second half.

Every missed pass drained a bit more belief from the team. Owen Mulligan returned to his very best today and got so many of the crucial scores for Tyrone, punishing our bad play further. There was beautiful gloss scores late on by Tyrone but make no mistake, that was simply training pitch stuff - this game belonged to Mulligan.

For us only a few players stood out at all. Seanie Mc (who scored a first round K.O. on Mulligan or so it seemed!) was as all-action as ever, fighting for every little scrap anddriving forward with more pace than most of the rest of the team combined. He even managed to win a free up inside Tyrone's full-back line. Cathal Cregg was as predictably brilliant as he always is, if ever a player deserved better from his teammates it's Cregg, he is an absolutely wonderful athlete and he has become the fulcrum of the entire team. Next year's captain if we have even an iota of sense. Donie Shine again did well in the middle and placed plenty of good ball into the forwards, but their inability to win ball distracted from that. Maybe he should have moved in closer to goal after it became clear Senan just wasn't winning ball but Donie looks stronger, fitter and more mobile than he's ever been and hopefully he keeps that work going over the off-season as few can doubt how talented he is.

From a Tyrone perspective I'd like to congratulate them on their win and besides a Mayo or Kildare All-Ireland I'd be very happy to see Tyrone lift Sam again. Their supporters are a classy bunch and always handle themselves well. If all supporters were as well-spirited as the ones at today's match we'd be all richer for it. Tyrone didn't look like All-Ireland contenders today, they were patently afraid of our midfield and opted for too many short kick-outs, especially win the wind. Likewise there was an inertia about Tyrone's play going forward, too many looping passes and too few scoring threats - outside Mulligan and Harte the rest of the Tyrone team were kept pretty quiet in the business minutes of the match. Tyrone, barring meeting Kildare, should reach the quarter-finals but I wouldn't fancy them against any of the presumptive provincial champions (Mayo, Donegal, Dublin and Cork) so plenty of work needs to be done in the next few weeks if Tyrone are going to launch a serious run at the title this year.

So we bowed out of another game by letting a lead spiral and fray and then spiral some more. It's hard to really comprehend the mixed signals we've got out of the team this year.

The board and the senior setup need to decide swiftly if they believe in the management team and then stick to their decision. If the people closest to the situation believe Des is going in the right direction then I'm fully behind giving him a full off-season to work with the panel and blood the flood of under-age players we have coming through. If they don't, do everyone a favour and end it swiftly because otherwise you're just adherering to an agreement and not looking out for the county's best interests.

People call for change in the aftermath of losses but relatively simple things, like running off the club championship throughout the summer, deserve to at least be trialed. We need to make sure the county players all come back fitter and stronger next season so I hope our conditioning program is perpared to fully take advantage of the five or so months' break from inter-county football, something I always wondered if we exploited fully last year with all the associated disruption involved in managerial change. To beat the likes of Kildare and Donegal in the future we need to be comparatively fit and we aren't there just yet.

Look, I refuse to be too downbeat. We have one of the finest underage structures in the country and each year players of inter-county talent are added to the senior panel. In the last year Darren Mc, Niall Daly, Cathal Shine, Neil Collins, Colin Compton and Niall Kilroy have all got starts and most have shown plenty to work with moving forward. Donie Smith quietly made his senior debut today and he is someone who is likely to have a major role to play in what shape the future of this team takes. We need to again focus on getting to Division 2, and this time there can be very few excuses. We only need to look at our opponents today for a masterclass as to how you turn underage success into senior success. Likewise the route to success has a habit of not flowing neatly but coming of a shot: Down, Mayo and Donegal all have appeared on the All-Ireland landscape in the last three seasons after many failures and disappointments. There's plenty of hope for the future. The worst thing the players could do today is accept defeat and not be angry at themselves. They have to continue to believe they are better than they showed or you just end up mired forever in meritocracy.

Phew. And despite everything I still can't wait for Mayo tomorrow. Once more into the breach.

[moysider]

More than i thought came through so, Mattie Donnelly,Coney were the main forwards on show that day. For the record of the 08 minors Neill Collins,Niall Daly Cathal Shine, Niall Kilroy,Darren McDermott played a part in today's game a bad experience but some senior championship experience nonetheless.

Was that the Tyrone team that beat Mayo in final aet in replay?

We ve had 2 seniors out of that - O Sé and Keane. Maybe I should mention Hennelly. Can t really see any of the others make it now with the possible exception of Aiden Walsh.

I don t get excited about minor teams - even the better ones.

[under the bar]

Can we view the highlights online yet?

[ross4life]

More than i thought came through so, Mattie Donnelly,Coney were the main forwards on show that day. For the record of the 08 minors Neill Collins,Niall Daly Cathal Shine, Niall Kilroy,Darren McDermott played a part in today's game a bad experience but some senior championship experience nonetheless.

Was that the Tyrone team that beat Mayo in final aet in replay?

We ve had 2 seniors out of that - O Sé and Keane. Maybe I should mention Hennelly. Can t really see any of the others make it now with the possible exception of Aiden Walsh.

I don t get excited about minor teams - even the better ones.

Yes from what i remember a Hennelly blunder in extra time proved costly. I saw Mayo's 08 minors a number of times that year they were lucky to beat us needed extra time to get over Monaghan (played the same day as Tyrone v Roscommon in Pearse park) and gave a good account of themselves in the AI final. It was more of hard working team under a decent system than anything else Aidan O Sé was the stand out player.

[ross matt]

Congrats to Tyrone and despite being a Rossie I'm delighted that today brought some small bit of positivity to Mickey Harte's life this week.

Roscommon have gone back massively under this year's management. Galway's defeat today underlines how poor we are. The 2nd half of the Armagh match flattered us against a side with low morale who thought they had the match won at half time. I feel sorry for Cathal Cregg.

At least the underage continues its progress and best of luck to the minors tomorrow. 

[omagh_gael]

Good to get motoring again, took a while to burn through the dirty diesel but we're in the next round and as Mickey would say "...That's always a good place to be." I said before the game to expect big performances from Mugsy and SON and Mugsy certainly delivered (any word on SON's injury?) A real bonus to see young McCurry grab his chance, he's bound to see some game time next week. Anyway on to round 3, my prediction is Tyrone v Kerry in Omagh.

[Captain Obvious]

You'd give yourself a headache trying to make sense of the tilt-a-whirl that is Roscommon senior football at the moment.

In 2010 we get relegated to Division 4, we win the Connacht title, we play for 50 minutes against Cork and fall to pieces. 2011 rolls around  and we get promtoed from Division 4 at a canter, get well beaten by Longford. We almost beat Mayo to put back-to-back Connacht titles together. We play well for 60 minutes against Tyrone and then fall through the floor faster than an Olympic diver.

This year we veered wildly from good to bad and back again even within single passages of play. An up and down league was followed by one of our most complete collapses of all-time against a Galway side who clearly were very average indeed. And then we derailed Armagh in stellar fashion, securing a victory over out-of-Connacht opposition that ranks higher than any we, Galway or Sligo have achieved since 2003.

And then today. I thought we'd show much more consistency today but the only consistent thing about today was inconsistency. Another 11-point defeat to Tyrone and this time Tyrone were full value for those 11 points. And yet even the most ardent Tyrone supporter couldn't say this was a better game than the one the sides produced last year. At times both sides played almost comically lateral football and it was a game littered with errors by almost everyone. The fact we managed to lose more comprehensively to a worse Tyrone effort (and honestly,  a worse team in general) says today goes straight into the bank alongside the Galway result.

And yet after 30 minutes we had a gimme free to go - deservedly - 5-4 up and we fluffed it. Tyrone looked incredibly ordinary in the first half, with loose and slow passing, a nonexistent midfield and far too much running into contact. At halftime, ever after a few sucker punch Tyrone points put them up three I  felt the game was still very much in our own hands, playing into a solid wind in the second half and having played the better football. I  certainly was more upbeat than halftime against Armagh, with Armagh's first half performance certainly elapsing Tyrone's today.

And the turning point in the game was also a dark little reversal of the Armagh game, conceding a goal via a deserved penalty. That made it a six point lead for Tyrone with over 30 minutes left to play. This is where the wheels really came off.

Six down is far from an insurmountable lead, let alone at home and playing with a strong wind. We continued to win plenty of ball in the middle but some of the attacking play made it look like someone had taught us this sport last week.  Senan is a player of no small amount of talent, a player who on his day can rip apart even the best defences in the country. He had his worst day in a Roscommon jersey today. Donie, Cathal and Ger all dropped good 50:50 ball into him and he won absolutely none of it. He managed to slip on a dry pitch far too many times as well. His only good moment was a wonderful leveler in the first half, which only makes his nonperformance more upsetting.

And our half-backs played some crazy ball when they got a head of steam up in the second half. Tyrone had really started to funnel men back and to apply the original version of the blanket defence but so much of the passes we made in their half were lazy and completely lacking vision that Tyrone didn't need to try very hard. Cathal Shine also attempted some advised long-range shots but at least he got as far as shooting, which is more than can be said for most of the team in the second half.

And every missed pass drained a bit more belief from the team. Owen Mulligan returned to his very best today and got so many of the crucial scores for Tyrone, punishing our bad play further. There was beautiful gloss scores late on by Tyrone but make no mistake, that was simply training pitch stuff - this game belonged to Mulligan.

For us only a few players stood out at all. Seanie Mc (who scored a first round K.O. on Mulligan or so it seemed!) was as all-action as ever, fighting for every little scrap anddriving forward with more pace than most of the rest of the team combined. He even managed to win a free up inside Tyrone's full-back line. Cathal Cregg was as predictably brilliant as he always is, if ever a player deserved better from his teammates it's Cregg, he is an absolutely wonderful athlete and he has become the fulcrum of the entire team. Next year's captain if we have even an iota of sense. Donie Shine again did well in the middle and placed plenty of good ball into the forwards, but their inability to win ball distracted from that. Maybe he should have moved in closer to goal after it became clear Senan just wasn't winning ball but Donie looks stronger, fitter and more mobile than he's ever been and hopefully he keeps that work going over the off-season as few can doubt how talented he is.

From a Tyrone perspective I'd like to congratulate them on their win and besides a Mayo or Kildare All-Ireland I'd be very happy to see Tyrone lift Sam again. Their supporters are a classy bunch and always handle themselves well. If all supporters were as well-spirited as the ones at today's match we'd be all richer for it. Tyrone didn't look like All-Ireland contenders today, they were patently afraid of our midfield and opted for too many short kick-outs, especially win the wind. Likewise there was an inertia about Tyrone's play going forward, too many looping passes and too few scoring threats - outside Mulligan and Harte the rest of the Tyrone team were kept pretty quiet in the business minutes of the match. Tyrone, barring meeting Kildare, should reach the quarter-finals but I wouldn't fancy them against any of the presumptive provincial champions (Mayo, Donegal, Dublin and Cork) so plenty of work needs to be done in the next few weeks if Tyrone are going to launch a serious run at the title this year.

So we bowed out of another game by letting a lead spiral and fray and then spiral some more. It's hard to really comprehend the mixed signals we've got out of the team this year.

The board and the senior setup need to decide swiftly if they believe in the management team and then stick to their decision. If the people closest to the situation believe Des is going in the right direction then I'm fully behind giving him a full off-season to work with the panel and blood the flood of under-age players we have coming through. If they don't, do everyone a favour and end it swiftly because otherwise you're just adherering to an agreement and not looking out for the county's best interests.

People call for change in the aftermath of losses but relatively simple things, like running off the club championship throughout the summer, deserve to at least be trialed. We need to make sure the county players all come back fitter and stronger next season so I hope our conditioning program is perpared to fully take advantage of the five or so months' break from inter-county football, something I always wondered if we exploited fully last year with all the associated disruption involved in managerial change. To beat the likes of Kildare and Donegal in the future we need to be comparatively fit and we aren't there just yet.

Look, I refuse to be too downbeat. We have one of the finest underage structures in the country and each year players of inter-county talent are added to the senior panel. In the last year Darren Mc, Niall Daly, Cathal Shine, Neil Collins, Colin Compton and Niall Kilroy have all got starts and most have shown plenty to work with moving forward. Donie Smith quietly made his senior debut today and he is someone who is likely to have a major role to play in what shape the future of this team takes. We need to again focus on getting to Division 2, and this time there can be very few excuses. We only need to look at our opponents today for a masterclass as to how you turn underage success into senior success. Likewise the route to success has a habit of not flowing neatly but coming of a shot: Down, Mayo and Donegal all have appeared on the All-Ireland landscape in the last three seasons after many failures and disappointments. There's plenty of hope for the future. The worst thing the players could do today is accept defeat and not be angry at themselves. They have to continue to believe they are better than they showed or you just end up mired forever in meritocracy.

Phew. And despite everything I still can't wait for Mayo tomorrow. Once more into the breach.

[moysider]

More than i thought came through so, Mattie Donnelly,Coney were the main forwards on show that day. For the record of the 08 minors Neill Collins,Niall Daly Cathal Shine, Niall Kilroy,Darren McDermott played a part in today's game a bad experience but some senior championship experience nonetheless.

Was that the Tyrone team that beat Mayo in final aet in replay?

We ve had 2 seniors out of that - O Sé and Keane. Maybe I should mention Hennelly. Can t really see any of the others make it now with the possible exception of Aiden Walsh.

I don t get excited about minor teams - even the better ones.

Yes from what i remember a Hennelly blunder in extra time proved costly. I saw Mayo's 08 minors a number of times that year they were lucky to beat us needed extra time to get over Monaghan (played the same day as Tyrone v Roscommon in Pearse park) and gave a good account of themselves in the AI final. It was more of hard working team under a decent system than anything else Aidan O Sé was the stand out player.

Exactly.

You think ye were as good or better than us that year ( I was at the Ros game and thought we got sloppy and lazy and should have won by more) and that s ok. We had Tyrone beaten in final if my little neighbour didn t get a rush of blood. Well there was another  from down south messed up as well. But that s football. I would disagree about the system thing but they did dig deep in games in fairness to them. A couple more might have come through but perhaps the best of them all- Cathal Freeman - had a massive injury setback.

I know you re not going to agree with me but I think Roscommon have been putting too much faith on what their underage teams can do. Syferus will bound back again with promises of a brilliant future and rest of the country watch out. I don t buy it and I suspect it may be doing those lads a disservice. It s like 6 years of brighter future since 06.

A hero of that 06 teams has been getting the 'Derek Duggan' treatment ( 1 good summer leads to 10 year carefree career)since.I suspect that a lot fewer will be coming through from minor teams than people think. Some counties have better 'underage structures' than others but I m not sure what that means really.

Galway have won 3 u21 AIs since they won their last senior and lost to Antrim today. Some people think they re wasting resources but I m not sure.

Mayo play Ros tomorrow in minor final. Ros are expected to win and best of luck if they do.

I d have a jaundiced view of football at this stage but I would be confident that 3 maybe 4 of our lads could play senior intercounty football, if all things go right for them. It doesn t matter if they win or lose those fellas have the qualities to go up the levels.

What I find with Ros folk is that they put too much emphasis on beating likes of Mayo and Galway at underage - or even outside the province. These - the u21s as well - are only kids.

Spent some time watching the world junior athletic champs this week. Great athletes but very few will ever compete in senior worlds or Olympics. Our underage competitions are about as relevant. Underage structures are all fine and well but to an extent produce 'hot-house flowers'.

[Syferus]

You see, you're applying big country logic to something to something much more complex. Mayo have no trouble feeling confident of beating Roscommon; it doesn't work both ways. Having lads growing up beating most teams in the country for counties like Tipp, Roscommon and Cavan is absolutely huge in the long run, they don't come into senior with the same old baggage that weighed previous teams down. Nevermind that success at underage means more big games and more time time to hone their craft and temperaments.

Removed from that minor and u21 are the two most enjoyable grades to watch, rarely if ever do you see good teams at either grade playing negative football. I know that following the Roscommon minor and u21 teams has been life-affirming for alot of supporters. It keeps you very honest as a supporter to see lads grow into seniors or even just have underage success, it's one of the most wonderful aspects of the GAA.

It's not an assurance of success but I wouldn't trade our underage teams for anything.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Syferus that's far too long. Five paragraphs beginning with 'and' as well - tough on the eyes.

I'd disagree with you regarding your perceived Roscommon roller coaster ride theory though. I think you've been pretty consistent in the last three years.

2010: Won Connacht without having to play Galway or Mayo. Decent for a good while but eventually fell away against Cork.

2011: Lost Connacht final to Mayo, margin less than usual - only two points but in those conditions it was never going to be a high scoring game so not too surprising. Decent for a good while but fell away against Tyrone.

2012: Gone backwards due to the management change. On wrong end of usual scalping against Galway. Surprisingly beat Armagh but Armagh were at the end of an unsuccessful era, a bit like Longford v Mayo 2010. Decent for a while but fell away against Tyrone.

So all in all, fairly consistent. A decent mid rank team who are capable of giving better teams a game but not able to sustain it for 70 minutes to get a win against them. Nothing roller coaster about it, especially compared to a team like Sligo who have gone from great to awful and back again a few times in the last five years without any logical explanation on offer.

[Syferus]

Fixed it a bit for ya Cossie! I'll serialise it next time in my nationally published newspaper job.

They call me 'Roy Curtis'.
It's an anagram for Cry I Rot Us.

[ross4life]

More than i thought came through so, Mattie Donnelly,Coney were the main forwards on show that day. For the record of the 08 minors Neill Collins,Niall Daly Cathal Shine, Niall Kilroy,Darren McDermott played a part in today's game a bad experience but some senior championship experience nonetheless.

Was that the Tyrone team that beat Mayo in final aet in replay?

We ve had 2 seniors out of that - O Sé and Keane. Maybe I should mention Hennelly. Can t really see any of the others make it now with the possible exception of Aiden Walsh.

I don t get excited about minor teams - even the better ones.

Yes from what i remember a Hennelly blunder in extra time proved costly. I saw Mayo's 08 minors a number of times that year they were lucky to beat us needed extra time to get over Monaghan (played the same day as Tyrone v Roscommon in Pearse park) and gave a good account of themselves in the AI final. It was more of hard working team under a decent system than anything else Aidan O Sé was the stand out player.

Exactly.

You think ye were as good or better than us that year ( I was at the Ros game and thought we got sloppy and lazy and should have won by more) and that s ok. We had Tyrone beaten in final if my little neighbour didn t get a rush of blood. Well there was another  from down south messed up as well. But that s football. I would disagree about the system thing but they did dig deep in games in fairness to them. A couple more might have come through but perhaps the best of them all- Cathal Freeman - had a massive injury setback.

I know you re not going to agree with me but I think Roscommon have been putting too much faith on what their underage teams can do. Syferus will bound back again with promises of a brilliant future and rest of the country watch out. I don t buy it and I suspect it may be doing those lads a disservice. It s like 6 years of brighter future since 06.

A hero of that 06 teams has been getting the 'Derek Duggan' treatment ( 1 good summer leads to 10 year carefree career)since.I suspect that a lot fewer will be coming through from minor teams than people think. Some counties have better 'underage structures' than others but I m not sure what that means really.

Galway have won 3 u21 AIs since they won their last senior and lost to Antrim today. Some people think they re wasting resources but I m not sure.

Mayo play Ros tomorrow in minor final. Ros are expected to win and best of luck if they do.

I d have a jaundiced view of football at this stage but I would be confident that 3 maybe 4 of our lads could play senior intercounty football, if all things go right for them. It doesn t matter if they win or lose those fellas have the qualities to go up the levels.

What I find with Ros folk is that they put too much emphasis on beating likes of Mayo and Galway at underage - or even outside the province. These - the u21s as well - are only kids.

Spent some time watching the world junior athletic champs this week. Great athletes but very few will ever compete in senior worlds or Olympics. Our underage competitions are about as relevant. Underage structures are all fine and well but to an extent produce 'hot-house flowers'.

Not sure was our minors better than ours in 2008 but we certainly had the beating of Mayo as we kicked 15 wides & missed a penalty.

Galway are one of the biggest underachievers maybe mismanagement is the problem. For us it's what we didn't do at underage before 2006 that's still the problem at senior level & i have faith we will be better a senior level in the years ahead like you said about Mayo confident that 3 maybe 4 will make it. (we didn't have that with our underage setup for ages)

As for athletic debate well i bet most that compete in the senior world's or Olympics have come through some type of underage structure.