Titanic Exhibition

[rrhf]

I have to agree with Tony here, what the fcuk would anyone from Belfast know about icebergs?

[Nally Stand]

I take your point, but the political centenaries, both 1912 and 1916 have a place in the exhibition, if memory serves me well.

As for pop concerts etc, are you saying people should have gone to Live Aid and not enjoyed themselves? It is possible to have an event for a tragic cause and celebrate the memory of the victims, or the cause that is being promoted. Far worse if they'd been forgotten about altogether.

Also if part of the remit of the Titanic Building and quarter is to usher Belfast into a new era, then its hardly appropriate to show negativity to the visitors, none of whom are likely to be interested in that aspect.

It's now about "ushering in a new era"? I thought you said it was about commemorating (i.e. the past?) I don't buy into such wishy-washy arguments. Pure nonsense. If the museum is supposed to exhibit the history of the shipyard, then it should do just that, and not present the shipyard as being something it wasn't. As I said, if sectarianism in H&W was only a rare occurrence then by all means sideline it, but to many people, the history of H&W is as much or maybe more about sectarianism as much as it is about the Titanic.

On July 21st 1920, the aftermath of Titanic, notices were posted in the shipyards calling Protestant and Unionist workers to meet at lunch time outside the gates of the south yard. At the end of the meeting hundreds of apprentices and rivet boys ordered out Catholic workers.

"Some were kicked and beaten, others were pelted with rivets, and some were forced to swim for their lives. One Catholic remembers; "the gates were smashed down with sledges, the vests and shirts of those at work were torn open to see if the men were wearing any Catholic emblems and woe betide the man who was. One man was set upon, thrown into the dock, had to swim the Musgrave channel, and having been pelted with rivets, had to swim two or three miles, to emerge in streams of blood and rush to the nearest police station in a nude state' (Bardon 1992 p471)."

To quote Jude Collins:
"The real problem begins when you start to kid yourself about sectarianism. When, for example, you go on and on and on about the Titanic, while refusing to admit even to yourself that the shipyards were always a cockpit for sectarianism. And not two-way sectarianism. It wasn't Protestant workers were beaten up at the shipyards, no Protestant workers were thrown in the water, no Protestant workers were sent fleeing for their lives. So next time you hear the BBC or some other media outlet glory in the Titanic ...keep in mind that they're twisting history in a – that's right, sectarian way."

The museum claims to tell the story of the shipyard's past. It seems that one of the single biggest realities of life in the shipyards, and one of the two things that spring to mind when we think of the shipyard, it is basically the only aspect of life in this shipyard that isn't given the whole 9 yards of treatment, and worse, is almost totally ignored.

[Eamonnca1]

I meant that it's distasteful celebrating a ship that sank (with the loss of 700 lives), not celebrating that 700 people died.

If it's indeed a celebration of Belfast shipbuilding, it doesn't do much for that as it didn't even complete one trip across the Atlantic.

Olympic had a long life and made plenty of trips back and forth. Britanic served as a hospital ship in WWI until it struck a mine and sank off Gallipoli. Canberra and plenty of other notable ships were built there.  There's plenty of heritage and much to learn about the era of the great ocean liners.  There's an excellent documentary series that starts here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGcGvR4PEc and all episodes are on youtube. Well worth a watch. It might change your view.

(It was 1500 people, by the way.)

[T Fearon]

Nally Stand,I don't see how or why the Titanic Building should draw attention to the undeniable sectarianism prevalent in the Shipyard.What would the point of that be? The building is a shrine to a ship not the shipyard.

It's like expecting Unionists to include their second class citizenship treatment of Catholics for long periods in the 20th century as part of the 1912 centenary celebrations.

[Nally Stand]

Nally Stand,I don't see how or why the Titanic Building should draw attention to the undeniable sectarianism prevalent in the Shipyard.What would the point of that be? The building is a shrine to a ship not the shipyard.

It's like expecting Unionists to include their second class citizenship treatment of Catholics for long periods in the 20th century as part of the 1912 centenary celebrations.

A huge chunk of the exhibition is about life in the yard itself, not just about the Titanic. So if they want it to be taken seriously as something of an authority on the history of the shipyard and seen a place where people can go to learn about the history of it, then surely they can't just ignore one of the single biggest issues of that history ffs!! You say the sectarianism at H&W was "undeniable", well as long as the exhibition ignores it, they are doing the next best thing to denying it. Airbrushing it away, you could say.

[T Fearon]

Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?

[Nally Stand]

Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?

Would I expect an exhibition on the history of a shipyard to tell the story of one of the most talked about elements of it's history? Yes I would.

[muppet]

My question to you is still unanswered.

I know. Terrible, isn't it?

It isn't terrible, it simply speak volumes.

As for the Titanic, a very enjoyable day out.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?

Would I expect an exhibition on the history of a shipyard to tell the story of one of the most talked about elements of it's history? Yes I would.

Have you gone?

If not, why not?

[Nally Stand]

Did you seriously expect it to be included? Will the Maze exhibition feature paramilitary excesses?

Would I expect an exhibition on the history of a shipyard to tell the story of one of the most talked about elements of it's history? Yes I would.

Have you gone?

If not, why not?

Anyway the exhibition is fairly good alright, but not as impressive as the hype led me to believe.

[Eamonnca1]

It isn't terrible, it simply speak volumes.

*smack* *smack* Wicked child! We don't use clichés around here!

[muppet]

It isn't terrible, it simply speak volumes.

*smack* *smack* Wicked child! We don't use clichés around here!

Just blanket insults that you can't back up.

[Milltown Row2]

Nally Stand,I don't see how or why the Titanic Building should draw attention to the undeniable sectarianism prevalent in the Shipyard.What would the point of that be? The building is a shrine to a ship not the shipyard.

It's like expecting Unionists to include their second class citizenship treatment of Catholics for long periods in the 20th century as part of the 1912 centenary celebrations.

A huge chunk of the exhibition is about life in the yard itself, not just about the Titanic. So if they want it to be taken seriously as something of an authority on the history of the shipyard and seen a place where people can go to learn about the history of it, then surely they can't just ignore one of the single biggest issues of that history ffs!! You say the sectarianism at H&W was "undeniable", well as long as the exhibition ignores it, they are doing the next best thing to denying it. Airbrushing it away, you could say.

I am very grateful to the shipyard for giving me a start in life, I certainly wouldn't be where I am today without the training and experience that I picked up while serving my apprenticeship and the years afterwards. Yes there was widespread discrimination, and that thing not only happend there but Shorts, and Mackies also.

While there (13 years) I never experienced anything myself but I did see all the trappings and a catholic worker was shot dead on the ship, terrible times . As for the titanic exhibit, it's some spot, plenty of stuff about old Belfast, great old maps with the old streets where my parents grew up.

There is celebration on the actual building of the ships and the commemoration on the death of the passengers, they do both in fairness

[Eamonnca1]

Just blanket insults that you can't back up.

Since when did insults need a backup?