Ulster Senior Football Club Championship 2012

[nrico2006]

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

Was Sidebottom not simply trying to say that the Crossmaglen number 14 yesterday had obvious difference in skin colour than any other player on the pitch yesterday and that calling him a racist name meant that they knew who his father was and that was the basis of their name calling?

I don't imagine that the Kilcoo players are feeling ashamed this morning, its not as if they were under the influence and did something out of their character.  They called a player a name in the cold light of day, they would probably do the same again next week if they knew they would get away with it.

[shawshank]

I think its says alot about everyone within the GAA and in sport in general when its OK to call a players mother a whore, but its a fuss when you make a racist remark. For me, calling someone's mother a whore is by some distance alot worst, buts theres never a word about it. Why the distinction, when infact you should be suspended for any of the remarks. Why are we accepting of this type of behaviour?

[imtommygunn]

There are some people who would stoop to anything. I would agree with points the wobbler makes. Racism is a hot potato and is unacceptable but it is because it is a topical hot potato that this is being given press here. As has been stated before on here several times there have been various altercations in matches where one player is mocking another player's dead relative.

The problem here is not racism. It is the breed of people who say as horrendous things as they can to offend people on a pitch with the objective of winding them up to win a game and deem it acceptable. This has been prevalent in the GAA for a long time and it does need to be stopped. It's not because it's racism it need to be stopped- it just needs to be stopped. Racism is not a new low - the low was reached long ago by some people. It is simply a different slant on that low.

[Milltown Row2]

I think its says alot about everyone within the GAA and in sport in general when its OK to call a players mother a whore, but its a fuss when you make a racist remark. For me, calling someone's mother a whore is by some distance alot worst, buts theres never a word about it. Why the distinction, when infact you should be suspended for any of the remarks. Why are we accepting of this type of behaviour?

We shouldn't and most players will react in some manner when such comments are said, I've no problems as a referee and heard abuse like that in sending someone off, I think there was a rule somewhere that you can use for that, was brought up at a referees meeting early in the year.

Some players just get on with it and wait their chance to get a good hard but fair tackle in on the abuser but this is not always the case.

In our game against Kilcoo they managed to hold our better players off the ball and drag them about, not uncommon and our lads should have worked around it, they didn't and paid the price. I stated before the game that they would struggle to score more than they did against us and that's what happened even against 13 men.

[stibhan]

Cunningham spoke well and that but I don't think it's right to condone personal abuse about someone's partner or whatever either, and people seem to laugh off similar incidents with Donal Og as just a bit of banter. I don't think invoking or constructing a scale or an acceptable level of abuse is right.

It's also shocking to hear someone call any supporter or groups of supporters 'inbred' as if it's an understandable term to use for an entire group of people. And it is about racism, it is about sectarianism, it is about homophobia and it is about personal abuse. Regardless of whether it happens once in a blue moon or every Sunday it should be something that we discourage in the fiercest terms and means possible.

I think you'll find I described a small number of followers of Kilcoo (as with all teams) as having that title. Not all of them.

Not going to blather on about it, but it's not that the inbred minority were racist in their abuse that bothers me. It's that an inbred minority feels they're within their rights to personally abuse football players that bothers me. It's that as an organisation, we accept it will happen, that bothers me. It's nothing new, it's just got a racist twist this time.

I refereed at an under-12 tourney a few years back and the personal abuse I got from mothers on the sideline was eye-opening.  Obviously I can put a whistle down at any time, whereas Aaron Cunningham cannot and should not deny his ancestry. So it's more sinister. But it's the same culture at play.

I still find 'inbred', whether pertaining to a minority or not, an unacceptable and racial term to use about anyone, and characteristic of a Punch Cartoon from Victorian England.

[NaomhBridAbú]

I think its says alot about everyone within the GAA and in sport in general when its OK to call a players mother a whore, but its a fuss when you make a racist remark. For me, calling someone's mother a whore is by some distance alot worst, buts theres never a word about it. Why the distinction, when infact you should be suspended for any of the remarks. Why are we accepting of this type of behaviour?

We shouldn't and most players will react in some manner when such comments are said, I've no problems as a referee and heard abuse like that in sending someone off, I think there was a rule somewhere that you can use for that, was brought up at a referees meeting early in the year.

Some players just get on with it and wait their chance to get a good hard but fair tackle in on the abuser but this is not always the case.

In our game against Kilcoo they managed to hold our better players off the ball and drag them about, not uncommon and our lads should have worked around it, they didn't and paid the price. I stated before the game that they would struggle to score more than they did against us and that's what happened even against 13 men.

Still cannot believe that ST Galls lost that game - still any team would have found it  hard to deal with Cross in thsoe first 15 minutes...breathtaking to watch

[wildrover]

Glad to see someone else had the sense to open a new thread for the controversial racist incidents which took place at yesterdays match....so....back to the football....

In the first half Crossmaglen played an absolutely rolls-royce brand of football. It had everything: Long accurate passing; Flawless first time handling in slippery conditions; Support play at pace in all areas of the pitch; Clinical finishing from long range/short range/tight angles and most importantly when presented with goal opportunities; Tenacious tackling all over the pitch. It was superb to witness them set about their work right from the first whistle.

In the second half there was the inevitability of a slight lull in Crossmaglen's tempo. Kilcoo, to their credit, once given a sniff dug in, started winning breaks around the middle, tried to make a dog-fight of the game and tagged on a few scores. Once they got to within 4 pts with cross reduced to 14 men, unsavoury incidents occuring all over, and the now partisan kilcoo crowd in full flow, it looked like perhaps kilcoo could possibly make Crossmaglen sweat a bit. It was then that Crossmaglen appeared to realise they needed to tag on a few scores to make sure and so they duly obliged with an excellent longe-range score followed by another clinically taken goal to ensure many punters who availed of the handicap betting went home happy.

At no stage where Kilcoo a match for Crossmaglen in any department and under no circumstances is 'Paul D 123's ' ludicrous suggestion that Kilcoo should have won the game accurate. This was men against boys.

Kilcoo's best performers were Stevey Kane in nets who claimed a dangerous high ball with ease and made a point blank save midway through the 2nd half, Darragh O Hanlon who for a 15 minute spell at the start of the second half carried the fight with some direct runs setting up play from the half back line, Donal Kane who worked hard and hit some fine accurate long range passes to Laverty (Was also unlucky to be blown up for a legitimate hit on James Morgan in the second half which Aaron kernan dispatched), and Conor Laverty who put his body on the line to win ball in the full forward line and displayed vision to set up a few scores. Ryan Johnstone again looked classy in patches and has a big future. Paul Devlin & Jerome Johnson were anonymous and Anthony Devlin looked off the pace. Niall Brannigan is a tight marking corner back but looks like a Junior C footballer with the ball in his hands and this was ruthlessly exposed for cross' 3rd goal.

Cross has star performers all over the pitch. Paul Hearty was solid and dealt comfortably with a few mid-range efforts aimed at goal (again in slippery conditions), Paul McKeown who is as tough and tenacious a man-marker as they come, Paul Kernan who fetched a couple of high balls magnificently in danger areas, Aaron Kernan who seems to (and with good reason) lay claim to any cross free kicks in defence, as his long-range kicking is sublime, Kyle Carragher who looked sharp and won every ball played in his direction before using it intelligently in the first half (although died a bit in the second) and finally the midfield pairing of Johnny Hanratty and David McKenna who, in my book, were the driving force of the whole performance. Hanratty plucked a superb fetch in the second half and seems to relish the physical stuff. McKenna is a giant who won almost every kickout/throw ball directed at him. Both midfielders, despite their physical stature, also have great long-range passing ability which is vital to the cross system.

Jamie Clarke by his own admission (via twitter) had a poor enough day at the office. He was undoubtedly on the end of a great deal of physical, and knowing Kilcoo as well as I do, I can say without any fear of contradiction mental abuse. However, he was lucky to stay on the pitch when he boxed aiden brannigan in the face after a passage of tackling in the first half. He seemed very frustrated at the lack of protection afforded to him by the referee (he was assaulted by Paul Devlin in front of the team dugouts as he embarked on a solo run in the second half) and this ultimately transpired into a poor enough all-round performance. I would be worried that this might lay a template for other corner backs/teams who watched yesterdays game. He is a fine talent and deserves to enjoy his football without being assaulted each time he plays. Cross might consider playing Johnny Hanratty or Danny O Callaghan beside him to 'Police' any off-the-ball nonsense during games!

Congratulations to Cross. Nothing but admiration for their achievements. Good luck in the new year!

[nrico2006]

I think its says alot about everyone within the GAA and in sport in general when its OK to call a players mother a whore, but its a fuss when you make a racist remark. For me, calling someone's mother a whore is by some distance alot worst, buts theres never a word about it. Why the distinction, when infact you should be suspended for any of the remarks. Why are we accepting of this type of behaviour?

I have said this before.  It seems to be ok to dish out any kind of abuse but when it comes to racism it seems to be different.  The filth that is directed at some players is unbelievable, and why should it be acceptable to call a player anything you want and expect it to be acceptable as long as you don't mention race.  Abuse is abuse no matter what stick is being dished out.

[NAG1]

I think its says alot about everyone within the GAA and in sport in general when its OK to call a players mother a whore, but its a fuss when you make a racist remark. For me, calling someone's mother a whore is by some distance alot worst, buts theres never a word about it. Why the distinction, when infact you should be suspended for any of the remarks. Why are we accepting of this type of behaviour?

We shouldn't and most players will react in some manner when such comments are said, I've no problems as a referee and heard abuse like that in sending someone off, I think there was a rule somewhere that you can use for that, was brought up at a referees meeting early in the year.

Some players just get on with it and wait their chance to get a good hard but fair tackle in on the abuser but this is not always the case.

In our game against Kilcoo they managed to hold our better players off the ball and drag them about, not uncommon and our lads should have worked around it, they didn't and paid the price. I stated before the game that they would struggle to score more than they did against us and that's what happened even against 13 men.

Still cannot believe that ST Galls lost that game - still any team would have found it  hard to deal with Cross in thsoe first 15 minutes...breathtaking to watch

As good as they were, Kilcoo conceded a goal from a dopey long ball which the Cross player attempted to catch and broke into the path of another Cross player and a penalty which should have been prevented and should also have been saved. So if you take even either of those two pieces of fortune from the game, it could have been different. I personally think Cross would have won any way and were the better team for sure, but it shows you how a bit of luck doesnt go a miss even for the best of teams.

[Milltown Row2]

I think its says alot about everyone within the GAA and in sport in general when its OK to call a players mother a whore, but its a fuss when you make a racist remark. For me, calling someone's mother a whore is by some distance alot worst, buts theres never a word about it. Why the distinction, when infact you should be suspended for any of the remarks. Why are we accepting of this type of behaviour?

We shouldn't and most players will react in some manner when such comments are said, I've no problems as a referee and heard abuse like that in sending someone off, I think there was a rule somewhere that you can use for that, was brought up at a referees meeting early in the year.

Some players just get on with it and wait their chance to get a good hard but fair tackle in on the abuser but this is not always the case.

In our game against Kilcoo they managed to hold our better players off the ball and drag them about, not uncommon and our lads should have worked around it, they didn't and paid the price. I stated before the game that they would struggle to score more than they did against us and that's what happened even against 13 men.

Still cannot believe that ST Galls lost that game - still any team would have found it  hard to deal with Cross in thsoe first 15 minutes...breathtaking to watch

As good as they were, Kilcoo conceded a goal from a dopey long ball which the Cross player attempted to catch and broke into the path of another Cross player and a penalty which should have been prevented and should also have been saved. So if you take even either of those two pieces of fortune from the game, it could have been different. I personally think Cross would have won any way and were the better team for sure, but it shows you how a bit of luck doesnt go a miss even for the best of teams.

Yes but would have Cross stepped off the gas had they not been so far in front? Did they beat the handicap?

[downjim]

Wobbler you and I and the dogs on the street are aware of the reputation that club has in the county. There discipline is terrible on the field and their supporters are as bad. The hunt in gangs on the field and so do they off it. a crowd of hard men in a group but really a crowd of cowards. Certainly getting no sympathy from anyone I talked to today

[Maurice Moss]

As a Kilcoo person I am very disappointed with what has happened. What was the biggest day in the history of our club will now be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

First of all, I am totally 100% against racism. I am not going to comment on the matter as the full details of what was allegedly said have not yet been released. I am in no way 'brushing it under the table' by saying this, I just feel we will know more in the coming days. I would just like to ask one question, I was in the stand but didn't hear any comments from supporters, I'm not saying it didn't happen but if it did how are people so sure it was Kilcoo supporters, were these people dressed in Kilcoo club gear?
Regarding a previous posters comment, our club have released a statement which includes "We as a club condemn abuse from whatever quarter and shall co-operate fully with any investigation instigated by Ulster Council."

I am actually quite shocked and saddened to see so many people slating our club and supporters on here and on other social networking sites. This isn't in anyway a true reflection of our club or supporters.

[Applesisapples]

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

I'd agree but would make it more likely.

[AQMP]

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

I'd agree but would make it more likely.

I can't see how it would.  I don't think it makes it more or less likely.  What he said is a bit of a non sequitur. 

I thought (perhaps wrongly, I'd admit) that it was widely known in Ulster GAA circles that Joey and Aaron are father and son.  Maybe what really is shocking is that a professional sports journo of 20 years experience didn't know.

[Applesisapples]

As a Kilcoo person I am very disappointed with what has happened. What was the biggest day in the history of our club will now be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

First of all, I am totally 100% against racism. I am not going to comment on the matter as the full details of what was allegedly said have not yet been released. I am in no way 'brushing it under the table' by saying this, I just feel we will know more in the coming days. I would just like to ask one question, I was in the stand but didn't hear any comments from supporters, I'm not saying it didn't happen but if it did how are people so sure it was Kilcoo supporters, were these people dressed in Kilcoo club gear?
Regarding a previous posters comment, our club have released a statement which includes "We as a club condemn abuse from whatever quarter and shall co-operate fully with any investigation instigated by Ulster Council."

I am actually quite shocked and saddened to see so many people slating our club and supporters on here and on other social networking sites. This isn't in anyway a true reflection of our club or supporters.

Mark Sidebottom was asked that question by a black listener from Kilcoo and confirmed that the abusers were wearing Kilcoo gear.