Ulster Senior Football Club Championship 2012

[AQMP]

Edit: Sidearse was just on Talkback.

I heard a bit of this discussion on the radio.  Joey and Aaron Cunningham came across well.  I did have to smile when Wendy Austin said "Joey, you played both Gaelic and umm...ordinary football".  She also referred to "Justin Sherlock".

On the main issue, unfortunately every club probably has its meat head supporters and in this case players.  If I were in the Kilcoo club or were one of the players I would front up, admit what happened, say it was in the heat of battle in a tense fractious game etc, a one-off, I'm not a racist, I'm ashamed and I apologise to Aaron Cunningham, then take whatever punishment is meted out without appeal.  Letting it drift until official investigations take place and hope it goes away can only make it worse in my opinion.

Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research.

Really, Mark??

[NAG1]

Edit: Sidearse was just on Talkback.

I heard a bit of this discussion on the radio.  Joey and Aaron Cunningham came across well.  I did have to smile when Wendy Austin said "Joey, you played both Gaelic and umm...ordinary football".  She also referred to "Justin Sherlock".

On the main issue, unfortunately every club probably has its meat head supporters and in this case players.  If I were in the Kilcoo club or were one of the players I would front up, admit what happened, say it was in the heat of battle in a tense fractious game etc, a one-off, I'm not a racist, I'm ashamed and I apologise to Aaron Cunningham, then take whatever punishment is meted out without appeal.  Letting it drift until official investigations take place and hope it goes away can only make it worse in my opinion.

Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research.

Really, Mark??

How to turn it round and make it all about me eh Mark!

[LeoMc]

Edit: Sidearse was just on Talkback.

I heard a bit of this discussion on the radio.  Joey and Aaron Cunningham came across well.  I did have to smile when Wendy Austin said "Joey, you played both Gaelic and umm...ordinary football".  She also referred to "Justin Sherlock".

On the main issue, unfortunately every club probably has its meat head supporters and in this case players.  If I were in the Kilcoo club or were one of the players I would front up, admit what happened, say it was in the heat of battle in a tense fractious game etc, a one-off, I'm not a racist, I'm ashamed and I apologise to Aaron Cunningham, then take whatever punishment is meted out without appeal.  Letting it drift until official investigations take place and hope it goes away can only make it worse in my opinion.

Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research.

Really, Mark??

In fairness to Sidear$e I never realised that Aaron was Joeys son until earlier this year when I was discussing the AICF with a couple of Armagh lads.  Aaron is a lot more light skinned than Joey (barely a Donegal dubh) Is Cunningham that unusual name in South Armagh that the connection would be made straight away.

[stibhan]

Cunningham spoke well and that but I don't think it's right to condone personal abuse about someone's partner or whatever either, and people seem to laugh off similar incidents with Donal Og as just a bit of banter. I don't think invoking or constructing a scale or an acceptable level of abuse is right.

It's also shocking to hear someone call any supporter or groups of supporters 'inbred' as if it's an understandable term to use for an entire group of people. And it is about racism, it is about sectarianism, it is about homophobia and it is about personal abuse. Regardless of whether it happens once in a blue moon or every Sunday it should be something that we discourage in the fiercest terms and means possible.

[AQMP]

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

[fitzroyalty]

Cunningham spoke well and that but I don't think it's right to condone personal abuse about someone's partner or whatever either, and people seem to laugh off similar incidents with Donal Og as just a bit of banter. I don't think invoking or constructing a scale or an acceptable level of abuse is right.

It's also shocking to hear someone call any supporter or groups of supporters 'inbred' as if it's an understandable term to use for an entire group of people. And it is about racism, it is about sectarianism, it is about homophobia and it is about personal abuse. Regardless of whether it happens once in a blue moon or every Sunday it should be something that we discourage in the fiercest terms and means possible.

Certainly some Down people have taken this as an opportunity to lace the boot into Kilcoo so to speak, which reflects poorly on themselves more than anything else. It wouldn't matter what club it is, it happened and it needs to be punished swiftly. Kilcoo seemingly are willing to cooperate if that statement is anything to go by.

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

Sidebottom is stupid; many, many people would know Joey Cunningham and the connection wouldn't be that hard to make saying he also played for Cross. Think he also played for Portadown, Gaelic Life did an article on him not so long ago!

[trileacman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20577083

Interesting quote -

He said he received racial abuse every week in the Irish League, but was shocked his son had suffered it during a GAA match.

[NaomhBridAbú]

Cunningham spoke well and that but I don't think it's right to condone personal abuse about someone's partner or whatever either, and people seem to laugh off similar incidents with Donal Og as just a bit of banter. I don't think invoking or constructing a scale or an acceptable level of abuse is right.

It's also shocking to hear someone call any supporter or groups of supporters 'inbred' as if it's an understandable term to use for an entire group of people. And it is about racism, it is about sectarianism, it is about homophobia and it is about personal abuse. Regardless of whether it happens once in a blue moon or every Sunday it should be something that we discourage in the fiercest terms and means possible.

Agree - its fairly clear cut in terms of it being unacceptable. GAA have a good chance to put the foot down and say, this is not right - will be interesting to see how much wallpapering over the cracks is done here.

(as an aside...poor Mark Sidebottom - seems he cant do anything right even as a spectator!) and him not a bad lad at all!

[AQMP]

Cunningham spoke well and that but I don't think it's right to condone personal abuse about someone's partner or whatever either, and people seem to laugh off similar incidents with Donal Og as just a bit of banter. I don't think invoking or constructing a scale or an acceptable level of abuse is right.

It's also shocking to hear someone call any supporter or groups of supporters 'inbred' as if it's an understandable term to use for an entire group of people. And it is about racism, it is about sectarianism, it is about homophobia and it is about personal abuse. Regardless of whether it happens once in a blue moon or every Sunday it should be something that we discourage in the fiercest terms and means possible.

Certainly some Down people have taken this as an opportunity to lace the boot into Kilcoo so to speak, which reflects poorly on themselves more than anything else. It wouldn't matter what club it is, it happened and it needs to be punished swiftly. Kilcoo seemingly are willing to cooperate if that statement is anything to go by.

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

Sidebottom is stupid; many, many people would know Joey Cunningham and the connection wouldn't be that hard to make saying he also played for Cross. Think he also played for Portadown, Gaelic Life did an article on him not so long ago!

Aye you're right.  I remember he played for Newry Town but I think he played for a couple of Irish League clubs.  Handy soccer player.

[LeoMc]

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

True enough, though Aaron is not obviously a target for racist abuse if you did not know the connection.
The bar may not be set very high when it comes to what Mark would count as "Research". Buying the match program would probably count as research at the BBC as far as Gaelic games goes.

[NAG1]

My point is that this if this statement is true

"Mark Sidebottom made the point that he knew father and son individually, but hadn't made the connection"

it does not follow that this statement is true:

"so that any abuse by fans must have been premeditated as it would have needed some research."

Mark made the connection that because this was not known by him that somehow meant that is was premeditated. I would be pretty sure that any footballer or football fan form that part of the world would know the connection already and would in no way be coming to the game with the intention of abusing AC because of it.

Simply because of his lack of knowledge on the issue he makes it sound even worse than it was, as if the BBC UTV dont like GAA bashing enough already he hands them another branch of a stick to beat the organisation with.

[NaomhBridAbú]

I lived in england for a few years - one day i gave a met police officer a good reason to call me a 'paddy bastard'. Another time, getting on a train at waterloo , I also gave a Pakistani ticket collector no reason to call me a 'White bastard' - couldnt believe it! Was close to bating the dung out of him, but was laughing the hole off myself at the same time.   

If the lads in the south call us 'nordie bastards' or 'brits' and we call them 'mexicans', is that all ok? Our friends on the 12th who get called occasionally 'Orange B's or Black Bs'...is it the same but different?

Racism is a very serious offense, but one that isn't so clear cut some times.

On reflection, i'd accept that people can say really spiteful things on the spare of the moment - sledging is common place in sport - its normally followed up with an apology or 'no hard feelings'.

I was very angry at the game yesterday - Im impartial, and initially wanted Kilcoo to give Cross a rattle. We all want it not to be a part of the game - on or off the field - but in truth, there maybe more of us guilty of it than we'd like to admit?

I dont know if the Kilcoo men have made an attempt at an apology. Not sure if the club has apologised for their fans yesterday - some of the stuff from the stand was awful. But I'd say that maybe a few of us should count ourselves lucky that our own team wasn't playing yesterday, and maybe the bigger question should be to the GAA and ask them what are they doing to encourage multi-culturalism or pluralism or whatever?.

After yesterday, and until the GAA impose sanction, fines or whatever, Id say that there will be a witch-hunt with Kilcoo, and that may be just as bad as what Arran and his family had to endure yesterday. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Kilcoo - Im hoping that what happened yesterday isn't representative of EVERYONE at the club - but they'll be guilty by association, until either the club or association get their shit together

Racism is in our society, and thats it - worse in some places, but its there, and its more often than not, taught at home rather than at club matches across the country.

[thewobbler]

Cunningham spoke well and that but I don't think it's right to condone personal abuse about someone's partner or whatever either, and people seem to laugh off similar incidents with Donal Og as just a bit of banter. I don't think invoking or constructing a scale or an acceptable level of abuse is right.

It's also shocking to hear someone call any supporter or groups of supporters 'inbred' as if it's an understandable term to use for an entire group of people. And it is about racism, it is about sectarianism, it is about homophobia and it is about personal abuse. Regardless of whether it happens once in a blue moon or every Sunday it should be something that we discourage in the fiercest terms and means possible.

I think you'll find I described a small number of followers of Kilcoo (as with all teams) as having that title. Not all of them.

Not going to blather on about it, but it's not that the inbred minority were racist in their abuse that bothers me. It's that an inbred minority feels they're within their rights to personally abuse football players that bothers me. It's that as an organisation, we accept it will happen, that bothers me. It's nothing new, it's just got a racist twist this time.

I refereed at an under-12 tourney a few years back and the personal abuse I got from mothers on the sideline was eye-opening.  Obviously I can put a whistle down at any time, whereas Aaron Cunningham cannot and should not deny his ancestry. So it's more sinister. But it's the same culture at play.

[downjim]

Wobbler you and I and the dogs on the street are aware of the reputation that club has in the county. There discipline is terrible on the field and their supporters are as bad. The hunt in gangs on the field and so do they off it. a crowd of hard men in a group but really a crowd of cowards. Certainly getting no sympathy from anyone I talked to today

[BennyHarp]

I sort of agree with Wobbler on a few of the issues. Its worrying that we have a culture at play in the GAA which means that players feel they can say whatever they want on the field of play and it can be passed off as "the heat of battle" or "all part of the game and sure shake hands afterwards". The bigger problem is that these Kilcoo players thought that their comments to Aaron Cunningham where justified within the bigger picture of winning the game and that is very sad. These lads are probably (hopefully) feeling very ashamed of themselves this morning, but if they had won the game, then I would imagine they would have felt it was worth it.

It's wrong that we have generated a culture where the winning outweighs everything else. This culture is evident right through the GAA at underage level, so we can hardly be surprised when its taken to another level at senior. Unfortunately, on this occasion, it seems that winning was more important than the good name of the Kilcoo club and they will have the burden of a racist slur attached to the club for the forseeable future. I hope it was worth it lads.