Census

[Ulick]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

There are 4500 Chinese speakers in the six counties. (http://www.ycni.org/downloads/publications/Celebrate_Diversity.pdf). The 2001 census has 75,125 people who "speaks, reads, writes and understands Irish".

So tell me what are you getting at with the road signs comment?

[Maguire01]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

Why would we? Can those Polish and Chinese people not understand any English? I'd doubt that very much.

Can the Irish speakers not understand English? I'd doubt that even more.

Ah, so your problem is with road signs including the country's indigenous language - the language that gave the places their names in the first place? Do you place no value on language or culture?

[Myles Na G.]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

No, you should go back and read the results again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17561881

82,600 reported that they spoke Irish outside school, compared to 119000 Polish speakers. Also (and obviously this is just an opinion), there's a world of difference between someone using a language as their first and preferred means of communication (Polish and Chinese, for e.g) and someone who peppers their English conversation with 'slan' and go raibh maith agat' and then claims to be an Irish speaker. The census reflects the fact that Ireland is a modern European country which is becoming increasingly diverse in its population. That's to be welcomed.

Go and get it from the horses mouth:

http://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2011reports/census2011thisisirelandpart1/

Irish Speakers (Number) Census Year 2011 Both sexes All ages
1,774,437

Polish Speakers (Number) Census Year 2011 Both sexes All ages
119,526

From the horse's mouth:
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Pdf%203%20Commentary.pdf
Of those who speak Irish, only 77, 185 indicated that they speak it daily outside the education system, as against the 119,000 Polish speakers who use their language every day.

[Myles Na G.]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

Why would we? Can those Polish and Chinese people not understand any English? I'd doubt that very much.

Can the Irish speakers not understand English? I'd doubt that even more.

Ah, so your problem is with road signs including the country's indigenous language - the language that gave the places their names in the first place? Do you place no value on language or culture?

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now. English is now the indigenous language of Ireland. Some people find that sad and wish it wasn't so, but that's the way the world works. We now have situation where more people on the island speak Polish as their first language than speak Irish on a daily basis, despite the fact Irish has been the official language of the Irish state for 90 years. The lesson is, when a language has stopped being the mother tongue of the vast majority of the citizenry, it can't be revived. As for road signs: sticking the Irish version of a place name on a road sign tells the average traveller nothing, since if they don't know Irish, how would they know (for e.g) that Beal means mouth, or Dun means fort, etc etc. I'm all for culture and language, but in the right place. Token gestures on road signs isn't the right place.

[Maguire01]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

Why would we? Can those Polish and Chinese people not understand any English? I'd doubt that very much.

Can the Irish speakers not understand English? I'd doubt that even more.

Ah, so your problem is with road signs including the country's indigenous language - the language that gave the places their names in the first place? Do you place no value on language or culture?

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now. English is now the indigenous language of Ireland. Some people find that sad and wish it wasn't so, but that's the way the world works. We now have situation where more people on the island speak Polish as their first language than speak Irish on a daily basis, despite the fact Irish has been the official language of the Irish state for 90 years. The lesson is, when a language has stopped being the mother tongue of the vast majority of the citizenry, it can't be revived. As for road signs: sticking the Irish version of a place name on a road sign tells the average traveller nothing, since if they don't know Irish, how would they know (for e.g) that Beal means mouth, or Dun means fort, etc etc. I'm all for culture and language, but in the right place. Token gestures on road signs isn't the right place.

Eh, Irish most definitely is the indigenous language. On what definition do you claim English to be the indigenous language? Do you know what indigenous means?

You sound like the type of person who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Irish on road signs is much more than a 'token gesture'.

[Myles Na G.]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

Why would we? Can those Polish and Chinese people not understand any English? I'd doubt that very much.

Can the Irish speakers not understand English? I'd doubt that even more.

Ah, so your problem is with road signs including the country's indigenous language - the language that gave the places their names in the first place? Do you place no value on language or culture?

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now. English is now the indigenous language of Ireland. Some people find that sad and wish it wasn't so, but that's the way the world works. We now have situation where more people on the island speak Polish as their first language than speak Irish on a daily basis, despite the fact Irish has been the official language of the Irish state for 90 years. The lesson is, when a language has stopped being the mother tongue of the vast majority of the citizenry, it can't be revived. As for road signs: sticking the Irish version of a place name on a road sign tells the average traveller nothing, since if they don't know Irish, how would they know (for e.g) that Beal means mouth, or Dun means fort, etc etc. I'm all for culture and language, but in the right place. Token gestures on road signs isn't the right place.

Eh, Irish most definitely is the indigenous language. On what definition do you claim English to be the indigenous language? Do you know what indigenous means?

You sound like the type of person who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Irish on road signs is much more than a 'token gesture'.

Indigenous:
1. Belonging to a place - originating in and naturally living, growing, or occurring in a region or country (Encarta Dictionary)

According to that definition, English is as indigenous to Ireland as is the Irish language; 'naturally living', in fact, applies more to English than it does to Irish, since Irish isn't the mother tongue any more of many of the citizens of this island. Even those who claim to speak Irish, do so usually within the educational environment only or on an occasional basis.

[Ulick]

From the horse's mouth:
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Pdf%203%20Commentary.pdf
Of those who speak Irish, only 77, 185 indicated that they speak it daily outside the education system, as against the 119,000 Polish speakers who use their language every day.

You said

There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland

You are wrong, by a long margin, over one and and half million wrong. Have the good grace to admit it instead of trying to squirm out.

[Maguire01]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

Why would we? Can those Polish and Chinese people not understand any English? I'd doubt that very much.

Can the Irish speakers not understand English? I'd doubt that even more.

Ah, so your problem is with road signs including the country's indigenous language - the language that gave the places their names in the first place? Do you place no value on language or culture?

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now. English is now the indigenous language of Ireland. Some people find that sad and wish it wasn't so, but that's the way the world works. We now have situation where more people on the island speak Polish as their first language than speak Irish on a daily basis, despite the fact Irish has been the official language of the Irish state for 90 years. The lesson is, when a language has stopped being the mother tongue of the vast majority of the citizenry, it can't be revived. As for road signs: sticking the Irish version of a place name on a road sign tells the average traveller nothing, since if they don't know Irish, how would they know (for e.g) that Beal means mouth, or Dun means fort, etc etc. I'm all for culture and language, but in the right place. Token gestures on road signs isn't the right place.

Eh, Irish most definitely is the indigenous language. On what definition do you claim English to be the indigenous language? Do you know what indigenous means?

You sound like the type of person who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Irish on road signs is much more than a 'token gesture'.

Indigenous:
1. Belonging to a place - originating in and naturally living, growing, or occurring in a region or country (Encarta Dictionary)

According to that definition, English is as indigenous to Ireland as is the Irish language; 'naturally living', in fact, applies more to English than it does to Irish, since Irish isn't the mother tongue any more of many of the citizens of this island. Even those who claim to speak Irish, do so usually within the educational environment only or on an occasional basis.

Does English originate in Ireland? In terms of 'belonging to a place', you cannot say Irish is not the indigenous language. The number of people who speak it on a day to day basis is irrelevant to whether it is indigenous or not. The Aborigines are only 2.3% of Australia's population; are they no longer its indigenous people?

[Myles Na G.]

From the horse's mouth:
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Pdf%203%20Commentary.pdf
Of those who speak Irish, only 77, 185 indicated that they speak it daily outside the education system, as against the 119,000 Polish speakers who use their language every day.

You said

There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland

You are wrong, by a long margin, over one and and half million wrong. Have the good grace to admit it instead of trying to squirm out.

If your definition of 'speaking a language' is satisfied by someone learning it as a subject at school, or learning it once a week at a night class, then you're right and I'm wrong. My definition of 'speaking a language' is someone who uses that language day and daily as their first and preferred means of communication. Under that definition, Irish is the 3rd language on the island. Straight from the horse's mouth.

[armaghniac]

I think that in districts where placenames are derived from Chinese that the original might appear on the sign, likewise with Polish and of course Irish.

[Myles Na G.]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

Why would we? Can those Polish and Chinese people not understand any English? I'd doubt that very much.

Can the Irish speakers not understand English? I'd doubt that even more.

Ah, so your problem is with road signs including the country's indigenous language - the language that gave the places their names in the first place? Do you place no value on language or culture?

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now. English is now the indigenous language of Ireland. Some people find that sad and wish it wasn't so, but that's the way the world works. We now have situation where more people on the island speak Polish as their first language than speak Irish on a daily basis, despite the fact Irish has been the official language of the Irish state for 90 years. The lesson is, when a language has stopped being the mother tongue of the vast majority of the citizenry, it can't be revived. As for road signs: sticking the Irish version of a place name on a road sign tells the average traveller nothing, since if they don't know Irish, how would they know (for e.g) that Beal means mouth, or Dun means fort, etc etc. I'm all for culture and language, but in the right place. Token gestures on road signs isn't the right place.

Eh, Irish most definitely is the indigenous language. On what definition do you claim English to be the indigenous language? Do you know what indigenous means?

You sound like the type of person who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Irish on road signs is much more than a 'token gesture'.

Indigenous:
1. Belonging to a place - originating in and naturally living, growing, or occurring in a region or country (Encarta Dictionary)

According to that definition, English is as indigenous to Ireland as is the Irish language; 'naturally living', in fact, applies more to English than it does to Irish, since Irish isn't the mother tongue any more of many of the citizens of this island. Even those who claim to speak Irish, do so usually within the educational environment only or on an occasional basis.

Does English originate in Ireland? In terms of 'belonging to a place', you cannot say Irish is not the indigenous language. The number of people who speak it on a day to day basis is irrelevant to whether it is indigenous or not. The Aborigines are only 2.3% of Australia's population; are they no longer its indigenous people?

Aborigines are certainly an indigenous people of Australia, but they aren't the only ones - anyone born and brought up in a country is 'indigenous' to that place, unless you want to go down the bloodline route of organisations like the BNP, which holds that only white people can be properly English, since people of colour aren't 'indigenous' to GB? English, as it is spoken in Ireland, certainly originates here. Likewise, English in its various forms, originates in other places too. The Liverpool accent and dialect has been heavily influenced by the Irish who have settled in that area. Many English young people speak a dialect - estuary English - which has been shaped by the speech of Black and Asian kids. English may once have belonged to the English, but it belongs to the rest of the world equally as much these days.

[Maguire01]

Here's another thing. There are more Polish speakers than Irish speakers in Ireland. In the north, there are more people for whom Mandarin Chinese is their first language. Do we need to do something about the road signs??

Why would we? Can those Polish and Chinese people not understand any English? I'd doubt that very much.

Can the Irish speakers not understand English? I'd doubt that even more.

Ah, so your problem is with road signs including the country's indigenous language - the language that gave the places their names in the first place? Do you place no value on language or culture?

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now. English is now the indigenous language of Ireland. Some people find that sad and wish it wasn't so, but that's the way the world works. We now have situation where more people on the island speak Polish as their first language than speak Irish on a daily basis, despite the fact Irish has been the official language of the Irish state for 90 years. The lesson is, when a language has stopped being the mother tongue of the vast majority of the citizenry, it can't be revived. As for road signs: sticking the Irish version of a place name on a road sign tells the average traveller nothing, since if they don't know Irish, how would they know (for e.g) that Beal means mouth, or Dun means fort, etc etc. I'm all for culture and language, but in the right place. Token gestures on road signs isn't the right place.

Eh, Irish most definitely is the indigenous language. On what definition do you claim English to be the indigenous language? Do you know what indigenous means?

You sound like the type of person who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Irish on road signs is much more than a 'token gesture'.

Indigenous:
1. Belonging to a place - originating in and naturally living, growing, or occurring in a region or country (Encarta Dictionary)

According to that definition, English is as indigenous to Ireland as is the Irish language; 'naturally living', in fact, applies more to English than it does to Irish, since Irish isn't the mother tongue any more of many of the citizens of this island. Even those who claim to speak Irish, do so usually within the educational environment only or on an occasional basis.

Does English originate in Ireland? In terms of 'belonging to a place', you cannot say Irish is not the indigenous language. The number of people who speak it on a day to day basis is irrelevant to whether it is indigenous or not. The Aborigines are only 2.3% of Australia's population; are they no longer its indigenous people?

Aborigines are certainly an indigenous people of Australia, but they aren't the only ones - anyone born and brought up in a country is 'indigenous' to that place, unless you want to go down the bloodline route of organisations like the BNP, which holds that only white people can be properly English, since people of colour aren't 'indigenous' to GB? English, as it is spoken in Ireland, certainly originates here. Likewise, English in its various forms, originates in other places too. The Liverpool accent and dialect has been heavily influenced by the Irish who have settled in that area. Many English young people speak a dialect - estuary English - which has been shaped by the speech of Black and Asian kids. English may once have belonged to the English, but it belongs to the rest of the world equally as much these days.

The BNP?! Does this count as Godwin's law yet?

[Eamonnca1]

Nazi!

[Ard-Rí]

Will I bother ... yeah, sure.

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now.

in·dig·e·nous

1. originating in and characteristic of a particular region or country; native (often followed by to)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indigenous

It's not possible for a language to be indigenous, and then to stop being indigenous, by the definition of the word.

English is now the indigenous language of Ireland.

Not possible. Just because it is now more widely spoken does not give you (or your ilk) licence to start calling it the indigenous language of Ireland. Such is an insult to Irish culture and heritage, not to mention the millions of Irish speakers you obviously wish didn't exist.

We now have situation where more people on the island speak Polish as their first language than speak Irish on a daily basis, despite the fact Irish has been the official language of the Irish state for 90 years.

Unfair comparison, let's compare like with like. The 119, 562 Polish speakers represents the maximum number of Polish speakers in Ireland. The 1.77 million represents the maximum number of Irish speakers. Nevertheless, let's delve deeper. 187,827 people are recorded as being daily/weekly Irish speakers, giving us a surplus over Polish speakers of 68,301. And that's only on a weekly basis. The people who get to speak Irish less frequently are a staggering 5.13 times the total number of Polish speakers on their own. And if say, 1/4 had fluent Irish from that group, that's 153, 309. Giving us a total number of fluent Irish speakers at 341, 136. And that's 2.85 times the number of Polish speakers. So, any claim that Polish is the second strongest language is blatantly false, when the numbers are examined.

The lesson is, when a language has stopped being the mother tongue of the vast majority of the citizenry, it can't be revived.

It can, both in theory and in practice. Vietnam revived their language this century, from much the same disinherited colonial position that we find ourselves today.


As for the Polish placenames and television, I believe they do have them. In Poland. Do us a favour MnaG, and take the post colonial self hate elsewhere, where it will be appreciated.

[Nally Stand]

Irish used to be the indigenous language of this island but it hasn't been for well over a century now. English is now the indigenous language of Ireland. Some people find that sad and wish it wasn't so, but that's the way the world works....

Indigenous:
1. Belonging to a place - originating in and naturally living, growing, or occurring in a region or country (Encarta Dictionary)

English originated in Ireland then?? Somebody take the shovel off this fcukin clown.