Congress Mass going ahead as planned

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Lads why does a sporting organisation need to have a religious service or support one politics over the other. No need for Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, FG, SF, FF, LAB, DUP, UUP etc. in the GAA, lets just have people.

[Pangurban]

A morally and ethically confused debate, which fails to address the real problems,  the moral vaccum and the loss or lack of indentity in Irish society

[playwiththewind1st]

I thought Ireland was developing into a mutlicutural society, and here the GAA wants to be directly linked to the catholic church. A very wrong strategy.  dino thinking

Let's get back to the Archbishop throwing the ball in, asap.

[Eamonnca1]

A morally and ethically confused debate, which fails to address the real problems,  the moral vaccum and the loss or lack of indentity in Irish society

So let's hear your views on the moral vacuum and loss of identity then.

[mylestheslasher]

I suppose the northern republicans/nationalists would have no issue with the ifa having a protestant service as part of their agm, given that protestantism is the largest of the religious make up of ifa people. Im sure no one would be on here giving out about it.

[camanchero]

It's not even the Gaa promoting religion, it's showing respect for them ( currently only Catholicism that's taking up the slot right now- there could easily be more) .

It is the GAA promoting religion. Mass is listed on the clar as if it's part of official GAA business. It's an endorsement of one particular religious sect by an organization whose membership is supposed to be open to all. It sends out a message that this organization has a distinctively catholic identity which, as well as violating the official guide, undermines the hard work of the Ulster Council in reaching out to northern protestants who would feel alienated or stand-offish about getting involved in Gaelic games because of what they perceive, rightly or wrongly, as an organization with a political agenda and a religious affiliation to the catholic church.

Nope -it is enabling it not promoting it.
Where does it say that people MUST attend it!

Mylestheslasher
It's almost surprising that the Ifa don't have a service, a ritual burning of a papal effigy and the Irish flag as well as multiple orange order uvf unionist/loyalist bands and shows of gun toting nut jobs as part of their ceremony wtc
As long as they allowed other religious ceremonies to take place simultaneously then why not!

[mylestheslasher]

So what if they burn tri colours, sure you dont have to attend!

[Eamonnca1]

It IS promoting it. By listing it on the agenda they elevate mass to the status of being an official part of the GAA congress proceedings. There are various side workshops over the congress weekend dealing with various topics such as games development, refereeing, coaching etc. Attendance at these is not compulsory but as long as they're listed as part of the order of business then they are all officially endorsed by the association.

[The Iceman]

What is really wrong with endorsing it or supporting it or promoting it?
If this was an isolated argument and debate I would give your opinions more respect and time, but this is just another example of your quest to remove God from the world. Whether it affects you or not - you don't want anyone else to believe or follow.

[Eamonnca1]

What is really wrong with endorsing it or supporting it or promoting it?
If this was an isolated argument and debate I would give your opinions more respect and time, but this is just another example of your quest to remove God from the world. Whether it affects you or not - you don't want anyone else to believe or follow.

[Hound]

Wow, extraordinary debate.

IMO, being non-sectarian as mentioned in the guide, means not discriminating against or causing offense to people of differing religious beliefs. It does not mean we cannot acknowledge that the majority of members are catholic.

We don't even know what the official wording on the Clar re this mass is, but regardless of that its not sectarian in itself. It doesn't discriminate because you are not forced to go and you are free to organise whatever you want yourself. It also should not cause offence to people of other beliefs.

There are clearly people who are offended by this mass, inlcuding posters on here. I strongly believe its safe to pigeon hole these people into two categories (granted some of them will pretend otherwise):

1. Those who aren't offended themselves, but take offence because they think it might offend someone else (even though they don't actually know anyone who is offended)! The "let's try and find offence where none exists" brigade. I've no time for these people. Let these keyboard warriors wallow in the misery this clearly causes them and have a good laugh at the nonsense they type!

2. Those who hate the catholic religion. These people are fully entitled to their view. This does not mean the mass is sectarian (certainly no more sectarian than calling our stadium after an archbishop or many of our clubs after saints). These people do have a right to use the proper channels to try and remove mass and whatever other stuff they don't like, but again doesn't mean mentioning the mass on the clar is sectarian.

I think of an example of me going to live in Moldovia where a large majority are members of the Church of Moldovia and the national game is tiddlywinks (a non-sectarian sport according to their guide). I'm welcomed in and become an avid player and attend the annual tiddlywinks congress. I see on the schedule there is a break for an hour for a Church of Moldovia service. As a reasonable person would this cause me offence? Of course not. I would link up with someone else who had no interest in attending the service and go for a coffee or a pint or whatever.

My conclusion: Mentioning mass taking place is not sectarian.

[ONeill]

Hard to beat a good long Mass before a feed of pratai.

[Hardy]

Hound - thanks for the new pigeon holes you've designed for me, but I won't be moving in, because, well, neither of them is really me - you know?

I don’t need to respond in kind and call you either a deluded keyboard warrior or a crank because I’m here to discuss, not to insult anybody. Well, not as a first resort, anyway. Also, I don't need to start with a home-made re-definition of some key words to try and make my post make sense.

(No comment on the unwitting appropriateness of your analogy in that the place to which you chose to emigrate to pursue your tiddlywinks career doesn’t exist.)

Simple question number three: If including a catholic mass in the agenda of congress doesn’t breach the non-sectarian rule, would including a two-hour Fine Gael rally on the agenda be a breach of the non-party political rule? (Hint: I’m talking about a hypothetical agenda item that says “Fine Gael rally” - as the current one says "Mass" - not one that says “Break for political meetings according to delegates’ preferences”.) Leave aside the question of what business either religious services or political rallies have at a meeting of a sporting and cultural organisation.

[camanchero]

.....as long as any break allowed for any party to have its own thing then it would be equal
However
The GAA is not political so changes would have to be Made to the constitution as its not allowed according to that.
The current rules only disallow sectarianism which the enabling of time for a mass (and I expect for any willing religion) does not contravene! Allowing is not the same as promoting!!


Maybe in time there could be breaks to enable commercial seminars- and if it brought in extra revenue , I doubt if the GAA would turn it down - again I don't believe this contravenes the constitution - that your political analagy does!

[haranguerer]

Why isnt there such a fuss over the GAA and numerous other 'non-sectarian' organisations promoting St Patricks day, an undoubtedly Christian festival?