Kilkenny county board and football

[Croí na hÉireann]

Yep, it's a badge of honour in Kilkenny to hate football. Kilkenny people would have got more enjoyment out of that result than Louth people. There would be less "embarrassment" in your son coming out than if he went off playing football for the county. Threaten to throw them out of the hurling championships unless they sharpen up their act, that will fairly light the fire under them.

[Lone Shark]

I'd come at this from a different angle - why are they fielding in these kind of competitions at all if that's the level they're at? Is it possible that there are some central grants available and that this is the motivation - access the grant, spend feck all of it, and you can tip the hat then and say that at least you fielded a team. I suspect that if somebody was to go over the Kilkenny accounts with a fine toothcomb, somewhere in there you'd get to the bottom of why they allow stuff like this to happen.

Comparisons with hurling are not apt for one simple reason - you can work hard at your hurling and still struggle to make inroads, it's a very, very difficult art. Football, by and large, isn't. If you put in the work, you'll get a long way and while you might still be weak, you won't suffer hidings like this to middling teams. Kilkenny footballers are getting hammered week in and week out in NFL division 4 - there's no equivalent hurling team to that, a side that's getting scutched even in their league.

[Milltown Row2]

Some balls  talked on this subject, Kilkenny crap at football!!!! well done Sherlock's

Cavan crap at hurling? yes, again we are starting to catch on. Fermanagh crap at hurling? Leitrim crap at? well make your own mind up on that, not bad at Scor mind your

Where do we stop? will we kick out all the counties from their main code championships for being crap at the other sporting code. Behave yourselves FFS

[johnneycool]

I must have missed the thread of scorn and displeasure when Cavan county board pulled their senior hurling team out of the NHL or Derry U-21 hurlers failed to field in the championship a few years back.

I wasn't that long ago either that the Tyrone county secretary talked about the same thing.

I'm not supporting Kilkenny on this as every county should put in the same effort in both codes, but you are all getting on your high horses because it happened in a football competition, whereas it happens in hurling all the time.

[Milltown Row2]

I must have missed the thread of scorn and displeasure when Cavan county board pulled their senior hurling team out of the NHL or Derry U-21 hurlers failed to field in the championship a few years back.

I wasn't that long ago either that the Tyrone county secretary talked about the same thing.

I'm not supporting Kilkenny on this as every county should put in the same effort in both codes, but you are all getting on your high horses because it happened in a football competition, whereas it happens in hurling all the time.

It's a football biased forum Johnney FFS. Most posters wouldn't know what end of the stick they would use in a match, and the next hurling match the would go to watch will be their first

[johnneycool]

I must have missed the thread of scorn and displeasure when Cavan county board pulled their senior hurling team out of the NHL or Derry U-21 hurlers failed to field in the championship a few years back.

I wasn't that long ago either that the Tyrone county secretary talked about the same thing.

I'm not supporting Kilkenny on this as every county should put in the same effort in both codes, but you are all getting on your high horses because it happened in a football competition, whereas it happens in hurling all the time.

It's a football biased forum Johnney FFS. Most posters wouldn't know what end of the stick they would use in a match, and the next hurling match the would go to watch will be their first

sorry Milltown, forgot about that.

[AQMP]

I seem to remember way back in the mists of time, possibly '85 or '86, a National League game (can't remember who ths opposition was, maybe Clare?) but KK lost 6-25 to 0-0 and a local KK journalist who turned up to watch the game came on as a sub.

It's only a couple of years ago that Antrim beat KK 3-33 to 1-0 in the Tommy Murphy and the KK goal was scored in the last minute.  Antrim scored something like 2-20 in the first half.

I can also point to the All Ireland Senior Hurling Semi Final of 1954 when Wexford beat Antrim 12-17 to 2-3.  Now at that stage Antrim were bucked out of the senior for 30 odd years.  Not sure what you do about KK U-21s mind you.

[Bord na Mona man]

What is strange is that representing Kilkenny at football so stigmatised that 11 fellas don't show up on the night. That hints at something deeper. Under normal circumstances, any person should be proud to pull on their county jersey in any code or level.

Kilkenny people often claim that no one is interested in football because of hurling, so why bother. However how come soccer and rugby are fairly strong down there? The implied 'everyone just wants hurling' argument doesn't wash as there is a proven appetite for other sports. If you subtly kill the interest in a sport at source it is very easy to then claim that no one wants to play it.

Comparisons with hurling results and margins are not valid as is vastly easier to run up a margin in hurling.  To lose a football match by that much you practically need both teams to be shooting at the same set of goalposts.

And obviously there are several counties that do little for hurling. Kilkenny's treatment of football offers them a nice opt out from any responsibilities towards hurling.

[johnneycool]

If you subtly kill the interest in a sport at source it is very easy to then claim that no one wants to play it.

100% right there Bord na Mona.

This can be done in lots of ways from setting club fixtures at the shittiest of times, ill equipping teams, less favourable treatment between the codes, forcing lads to chose one code over the other and the likes. Happens in loads of counties.

[Lone Shark]

Perhaps apropos, or perhaps on a tangent, I remember travelling down there for an O'Byrne Cup match a couple of years ago. After the game I got talking to the Kilkenny centre back on the day, a guy who actually acquitted himself quite well, albeit in another 30 point hiding or something similar.

His view was that there were a few lads on the panel that wanted to put in an effort, but that even basics like getting training together was hard work - it would have to come from the players, and a few times they ended up training on public parks and the like because the county board wouldn't provide a pitch. The CB justification was the same - lack of interest - but he asked who would be interested in training on a bare patch of grass with one football that they bought themselves? He knew things would get better by the time the league started, but in terms of training for division 4, or the U21, it was too late. That in itself stopped a lot of lads from making the effort.

The other thing he mentioned was how there was a tendency to parachute in hurlers for some games, and that these lads had no interest in football but they were invariably good due to high level training and fitness, and so it was hard make the case to drop them for the guy who actually wanted to play football. The footballer would miss out on a game where they might be competitive, but when it came to a tough away trip in the league or something similar, the hurler was nowhere to be seen.


Ultimately, a county board's remit is to provide gaelic games for those that want them. The official line in Kilkenny is that no-one wants to play football, so why should they make an effort. That may be the case, and if so fair enough. The issue is whether or not the option is on the table to play football and to do it right? Or are the players not interested in playing football because they know that they'll be treated like nuisances? The same thing applies to hurling in a lot of other counties. On that basis, before I make up my mind here, I'd be interested to talk to football people in the county and get more of their views. The rest of us are just speculating.

[Bingo]

Kilkenny at a big disadvantage in that they have no output in which to play at their level in which they would even be competitive. For sure they can make more of an effort but this is pointless in the short-term as no matter what they do they'll get these hidings. In football counties that try to play hurling, at least they have leagues and championships with similar team, which gives them a realistic target and focus. They can build on this and then move onto the next level if successful.

Expecting Kilkenny to compete at the minute is impossible. By all accounts their Senior football championship is probably over at this stage.

If they don't want to play football then so be it. I'm sure their are plenty in football counties that would love to have the same attitude to hurling*.

* - not my opinion but i know plenty who do hold it.

[mannix]

I think kk should be punished for allowing lads to be humiliated like that. Either have respect for yourselves and the game or lose your grants for hurling.
That'll learn them.

[GAA_Talk]

What is the story with Kilkenny Football as in number of teams that compete at each level? or would there even be the three normal grades (Senior, Intermediate, junior) in the county? That was a pretty cruel night for them lads although i've experienced many a tankin on the football field and returned no bother the next week so this idea of fines and penalties is pretty ridiculous. And as for Louth being a middling team, U21 level is very tight and hard to pick the strongest teams. Louth could well go on and win Leinster.

[rrhf]

Theres lads making this up as they go along.  There are those who would lambast the Kilkenny county for not wanting to play football and insist they should have to play it whether they like it or not, who are also arguing that the railway cup should be done away with despite players wanting to play it.
I think we have too many old school committee men on here who have only their way.  Leave Kilkenny home, they contribute more than most at county level in their chosen code.  The reality is that unless we encorage dual players and encourage burnout most counties best athletes will choose and stay with one sport and with half the country abroad its not an issue. There are issue we need to address and kilkennys attitude to football is not one of them.   Let the footballers go like the Windmill.   
 

[Milltown Row2]

Perhaps apropos, or perhaps on a tangent, I remember travelling down there for an O'Byrne Cup match a couple of years ago. After the game I got talking to the Kilkenny centre back on the day, a guy who actually acquitted himself quite well, albeit in another 30 point hiding or something similar.

His view was that there were a few lads on the panel that wanted to put in an effort, but that even basics like getting training together was hard work - it would have to come from the players, and a few times they ended up training on public parks and the like because the county board wouldn't provide a pitch. The CB justification was the same - lack of interest - but he asked who would be interested in training on a bare patch of grass with one football that they bought themselves? He knew things would get better by the time the league started, but in terms of training for division 4, or the U21, it was too late. That in itself stopped a lot of lads from making the effort.

The other thing he mentioned was how there was a tendency to parachute in hurlers for some games, and that these lads had no interest in football but they were invariably good due to high level training and fitness, and so it was hard make the case to drop them for the guy who actually wanted to play football. The footballer would miss out on a game where they might be competitive, but when it came to a tough away trip in the league or something similar, the hurler was nowhere to be seen.


Ultimately, a county board's remit is to provide gaelic games for those that want them. The official line in Kilkenny is that no-one wants to play football, so why should they make an effort. That may be the case, and if so fair enough. The issue is whether or not the option is on the table to play football and to do it right? Or are the players not interested in playing football because they know that they'll be treated like nuisances? The same thing applies to hurling in a lot of other counties. On that basis, before I make up my mind here, I'd be interested to talk to football people in the county and get more of their views. The rest of us are just speculating.

Not too many Leitrim posters on this site, though they do have some supporters that come on and defend them