Republicans finally admit murdering 9 year old Gordon Gallagher

[ziggysego]

I grew up in an Independent Irish state, with its own police force and defence forces, its own parliament, own primeminister (Taoiseach), its own head of state (President), its own education system and its own constitution. A land that issues its own passports. A land with its own seat in the United Nations. I grew up in a state which goes by the name Ireland or Éire, I consider myself having grown up in a land of Irish Independence.

Aren't you the lucky one! 

[Myles Na G.]

All sides routinely lied and blamed each other for events. It was war, there were civilian casualties from both sides which were not only regrettable but avoidable. Like all wars you get propaganda either excusing or justifying a course of action. At almost 40 years down the track from '73 its unlikely this family will get any real truth. The pointless finger pointing on this thread won't get answers either.

OK Applesisapples, but this board seems to be overrun with people using some victims as political capital all the time. Its remember this and remember that every 5 minutes on here.

Don't disagree with that sentiment. Although your claim for 90 years of Irish Independance is a bit off the mark!

It is true. Now if I claimed 90 years of full Irish Independance, I would be off the mark.

Emmm...Should read partial Independance then?

I grew up in an Independent Irish state, with its own police force and defence forces, its own parliament, own primeminister (Taoiseach), its own head of state (President), its own education system and its own constitution. A land that issues its own passports. A land with its own seat in the United Nations. I grew up in a state which goes by the name Ireland or Éire, I consider myself having grown up in a land of Irish Independence.

A land that is now run by the French and Germans. 

[lynchbhoy]

All sides routinely lied and blamed each other for events. It was war, there were civilian casualties from both sides which were not only regrettable but avoidable. Like all wars you get propaganda either excusing or justifying a course of action. At almost 40 years down the track from '73 its unlikely this family will get any real truth. The pointless finger pointing on this thread won't get answers either.

OK Applesisapples, but this board seems to be overrun with people using some victims as political capital all the time. Its remember this and remember that every 5 minutes on here.

Don't disagree with that sentiment. Although your claim for 90 years of Irish Independance is a bit off the mark!

It is true. Now if I claimed 90 years of full Irish Independance, I would be off the mark.

Emmm...Should read partial Independance then?

I grew up in an Independent Irish state, with its own police force and defence forces, its own parliament, own primeminister (Taoiseach), its own head of state (President), its own education system and its own constitution. A land that issues its own passports. A land with its own seat in the United Nations. I grew up in a state which goes by the name Ireland or Éire, I consider myself having grown up in a land of Irish Independence.

A land that is now run by the French and Germans. 

No more than Britain is really ( ie it isn't - but we are all handcuffed to the eu and euro)

[Aoise]

I have to say that this thread has made me somewhat nauseous.  When I saw the title I was for coming on here to give a reasoned response to that news yesterday but when I have read what a 9 year old childs murder has been used for it makes me sick.

Firstly, I am a republican.  The reasons for that are many and I am certainly not going to get into justifying why that is with people who are diametrically opposed to my viewpoint, suffice to say, I respect your opinions, but I'm damned if I will let you degrade mine and using an innocent childs murder to do so.

Do you want to get into every single death in the troubles to analyse what happened whilst totally decontextualising it?  Or do you just want to focus on the ones where you think you are morally superior?  Because by choosing only certain deaths you are doing a great disservice to all the other innocent people who lost their lives in what was, contrary to your protestations, a war.

I heard that man speak yesterday and my heart broke for him.  Do you think just because I am a republican that I am an ignorant monster devoid of emotion?  I felt for him as though it were my own child. Can I justify that child's killing? - absolutely not!  Am I sorry that things like this happened? - undoubtedly.  I can look back now from the safety of a different situation and say that there were many wrong things done.  I have no reservations about saying that.  The disappeared, car bombs i.e bloody Friday, Enniskillen.  Absolutely should never have happened.  Children killed, should never have happened.  But in saying this, do I think that a physical response to the British and Unionist domination of my people was necessary?  Absolutely.

There are so many people who wish to make this a black and white issue, when it is no such thing.  I think that everyone who has lived in this society has some amount of the shackles still hanging over it .  There are some who were involved, feel sorry and want to do something about it for the better.  There are some who are so dogmatic to never analyse what has happened and continue an ideology that is flawed.  There are some who wish to pretend it never happened and never discuss it, and then there are those who wish to selectively use children's deaths to make them feel a little better about their own morality.  Well to the latter I say, I hope to God, you are never in a situation like the 1960's and 1970's in the North of Ireland because your morality may not keep you as warm as you think.

Aoise, your customary style of response whenever someone points to some atrocity or other committed by Republicans has already become stale and predictable.

So to save you the bother next time, we get it: "Terrible thing, heart bleeds, awful, sympathy blah, blah, blah", eventually followed by: "Nothing ever black or white, need to understand context, understandable reaction to persecution blah, blah, blah...".

P.S. Just so you don't misunderstand my viewpoint, and that of other posters who aren't irredeemably taken in by SF/IRA revisionism etc, NOTHING could be plainer than that the callous murder of an entirely innocent 9 year old boy, the subsequent denial of responsibility, and the litany of lies told to his heartbroken parents etc represents the very darkest shade of Black. 

Just for the record, I make it a point to never argue with those who cannot accept or respect anothers' viewpoint or opinion.  You my friend fall into that category entirely.  I am confident enough with my own belief's to not go on a discussion board and try to ram them down your throat.  I accept what you believe and respect it.  I will show you what you don't show me - isn't that how we move on in this society, I thought that's what you wanted no???

[Rossfan]

Jasus Aoise you should know by now that all the awful things that happened in the 6  Cos was done by the (Provo) IRA.
Everyone else was as pure as the driven snow.

[Evil Genius]

Just for the record, I make it a point to never argue with those who cannot accept or respect anothers' viewpoint or opinion.  You my friend fall into that category entirely.  I am confident enough with my own belief's to not go on a discussion board and try to ram them down your throat.

I'm not interested in what your motives for posting on this Board are, they are none of my business.
Equally, when you post your views on a public message board, I will post what I like in response, since I don't care for your personal feelings any more than I expect you to care for mine.

I accept what you believe and respect it.

I'm truly not interested in whether you accept or respect what I think - this is a forum for discussing ideas and opinions.
On which latter point, so long as you express the opinion that the blowing to pieces of a nine year old boy out playing in his garden is "not a black and white issue", then you'll get no respect from me.

I will show you what you don't show me - isn't that how we move on in this society, I thought that's what you wanted no???

How predictable.
I'll say one thing for you hardline Republicans, you've certainly got your script off by heart.

It invariably starts off with some guff about "Feeling your pain etc". Then proceeds to the line about "needing to see things in context". There usually follows a bit of "whataboutery", followed by a reference to there being "no hierarchy of victims" (unless it's Republican victims like Pat Finnucane, of course). And finally, if still confronted by uncomfortable reality ("It doesn't go away, you know), there's always the catch-all "Time to move on" line.

Well here is my take on "moving on", for what it's worth. Whilst there is nothing to be gained from dwelling endlessly in the past, neither is there any benefit from moving on from one mess before it has been honestly and openly cleaned up, since that road only leads to the next mess.

On which point, while Republicans might finally having accepted culpability* for the murder of this young boy, the call by his father simply to know who did it, and why, remain unheeded. Never mind that he (father) is not asking for the culprits to be punished etc, no, he's now got all that the Provos are going to give him, so he should stop being ungrateful and "move on".

As someone-or-other used to say, "Pass the sick bag, Alice" 



* - Only after it became impossible for them to go on denying it, mind.

[Evil Genius]

Jasus Aoise you should know by now that all the awful things that happened in the 6  Cos was done by the (Provo) IRA.
Everyone else was as pure as the driven snow.

No-one I know believes that.

However the vast majority of people I do know believe that all the things which were done by the Provos were awful...

[lynchbhoy]

Yes a lot of the things that the IRA etc did were horrible but in retaliation to generations of similar and worse from the apartheid type regime from the loyalist/unionist estaishment!
It seemingly took this dreadful like for like retaliation to finally bring down that totalitarian unionist/loyalist junta and win equality for all people's - esp the Catholic Irish working classes!

[trileacman]

Yes a lot of the things that the IRA etc did were horrible but in retaliation to generations of similar and worse from the apartheid type regime from the loyalist/unionist estaishment!
It seemingly took this dreadful like for like retaliation to finally bring down that totalitarian unionist/loyalist junta and win equality for all people's - esp the Catholic Irish working classes!

It is still tragic that Gordon Gallagher had to die for this to happen.

[lynchbhoy]

.....funnily enough unionist/loyalist fear of a reunited Ireland stems from long before Sinn Fein, militant republicanism, the civil rights movement etc
They are just now using hatred of the sinners as an excuse!
The reality is they never wanted to share power or deliver equality - evil
myles and the posts coming from this source demonstrates that mindset.

We know unionists/loyalists sold their principles during the Celtic tiger and dared to venture over the border lured by money and jobs - so the same lure of financial gain will be their inducement towards reunification - the rest of the population are in the same boat there- all will be drawn to it by the prosperity , jobs and money this will bring!

[lynchbhoy]

Yes a lot of the things that the IRA etc did were horrible but in retaliation to generations of similar and worse from the apartheid type regime from the loyalist/unionist estaishment!
It seemingly took this dreadful like for like retaliation to finally bring down that totalitarian unionist/loyalist junta and win equality for all people's - esp the Catholic Irish working classes!

It is still tragic that Gordon Gallagher had to die for this to happen.

Yes it was. Also tragic regarding the thousands of others that were killed during the war of the 'troubles' and tragic regarding those killed, persecuted (and eventually driven to retaliate )  over the generations prior to the civil right movement.
If unionists/loyalists hadn't been hell bent on denial of equality and insisted on maintaining the status quo by terror and brutality - the whole lot could have been avoided!

[trileacman]

Yes a lot of the things that the IRA etc did were horrible but in retaliation to generations of similar and worse from the apartheid type regime from the loyalist/unionist estaishment!
It seemingly took this dreadful like for like retaliation to finally bring down that totalitarian unionist/loyalist junta and win equality for all people's - esp the Catholic Irish working classes!

It is still tragic that Gordon Gallagher had to die for this to happen.

Yes it was. Also tragic regarding the thousands of others that were killed during the war of the 'troubles' and tragic regarding those killed, persecuted (and eventually driven to retaliate )  over the generations prior to the civil right movement.
If unionists/loyalists hadn't been hell bent on denial of equality and insisted on maintaining the status quo by terror and brutality - the whole lot could have been avoided!

Does everything have to be tied back to the unionists? I mean what did you just add there apart from "if it wasn't for the unionists".

[camanchero]

Yes a lot of the things that the IRA etc did were horrible but in retaliation to generations of similar and worse from the apartheid type regime from the loyalist/unionist estaishment!
It seemingly took this dreadful like for like retaliation to finally bring down that totalitarian unionist/loyalist junta and win equality for all people's - esp the Catholic Irish working classes!

It is still tragic that Gordon Gallagher had to die for this to happen.

Yes it was. Also tragic regarding the thousands of others that were killed during the war of the 'troubles' and tragic regarding those killed, persecuted (and eventually driven to retaliate )  over the generations prior to the civil right movement.
If unionists/loyalists hadn't been hell bent on denial of equality and insisted on maintaining the status quo by terror and brutality - the whole lot could have been avoided!

Does everything have to be tied back to the unionists? I mean what did you just add there apart from "if it wasn't for the unionists".

only when the 'blame' is thrown out repeatedly in threads such as this - if there is blame to be attributed then there is a wider picture.
yes terrible that this young lad was killed, but is he any different to any other kids from whatever side of the divide , or women or even men.

yes terrible waste of life - but the use of this poor kids memory to 'point score' is the usual carry on.
If people are going to start throwing stones, then a bit of reality and context may make them realise they are standing in a glass house !

[Galwaybhoy]

As someone who always wanted to see a United Ireland this thread just shows why a bit percentage of the people in the south want nothing to do with the six counties.  If it was the other way around and it was a Nationalist child that was murdered I have my doubts the original poster would have made this thread but I know for certain that there would have been much more outrage from the Republicans on this board.  Bias from both sides creeps through.

R.I.P Gordon Gallagher, another pointless death.

[trileacman]

Yes a lot of the things that the IRA etc did were horrible but in retaliation to generations of similar and worse from the apartheid type regime from the loyalist/unionist estaishment!
It seemingly took this dreadful like for like retaliation to finally bring down that totalitarian unionist/loyalist junta and win equality for all people's - esp the Catholic Irish working classes!

It is still tragic that Gordon Gallagher had to die for this to happen.

Yes it was. Also tragic regarding the thousands of others that were killed during the war of the 'troubles' and tragic regarding those killed, persecuted (and eventually driven to retaliate )  over the generations prior to the civil right movement.
If unionists/loyalists hadn't been hell bent on denial of equality and insisted on maintaining the status quo by terror and brutality - the whole lot could have been avoided!

Does everything have to be tied back to the unionists? I mean what did you just add there apart from "if it wasn't for the unionists".

only when the 'blame' is thrown out repeatedly in threads such as this - if there is blame to be attributed then there is a wider picture.
yes terrible that this young lad was killed, but is he any different to any other kids from whatever side of the divide , or women or even men.

yes terrible waste of life - but the use of this poor kids memory to 'point score' is the usual carry on.
If people are going to start throwing stones, then a bit of reality and context may make them realise they are standing in a glass house !

So your reaction to "blame" being thrown about is to blame the Unionist? Don't you see the hypocrisy in that. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.