Rangers FC to go into administration

[Main Street]

thats fine about the flag - but the puzzling thing is why did you mention it in the first place (an attempt at inferring something that has backfired)
again please let me know which song you are referring to about blowing up people - I am intrigued as I dont think I know this one...
simple question. you keep banging on about it, so you must know what it is..

It's not puzzling in the slightest if you are not a simpleton. I have referred you back to the original post countless times but it doesn't seem you bothered to look, so here it is.  "The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours". There is absolutely no suggestion that either flag is sectarian. As for the songs you seemed to accept yourself on the previous page that you were being pedantic on this issue and as such I'm not sure why you are now returning to it. I don't need to explain it you again, I have already made the point for your benefit in a number of posts. 

I don't agree with everything that Main Street, Deiseach and London Camanachd have posted in this debate but I think they have all made some very good and reasoned points. The same could not be said of you and I won't waste any more time replying to you.

...therein lies the problem

You brought up the notion of the Ieish flag and equated it with the red hand loyalist flag - and you call other people 'simpleton' ( resorting to that means you are obv very lever - you smoke and swear as well I expect!)

However you may wish to interpret my mention of being pedantic ( I'll spell it out for you - that was your cue to admit there are no such songs that celebrate blowing people up- but you didn't take the lifeline ) so unless you can name any such song ( and if it exists then I've never heard it sung at Celtic games - and all rebel songs I can think of celebrate martyrs who have been killed rather than bloodthirsty songs about killing - but folk like you don't want to admit this as it distorts and ruins your attacking point on Celtic fans) then stop trying to hype up what does not exist , just because you wish it were so!

Think you jockos need to have a harder look at your own people and culture. The sectarianism against catholic schools and against Irish and English residents/visitors of the country. Not isolated incidents either and not in Glasgow!!

This has gone way beyond the scope of this thread and mainly just a typical outpouring prejudiced against Celtic fc, the club ethos and the way the fans choose to celebrate that ethos. Not ony that, but along with the usual wild, crazy and unsubstantiated claims that Celtic fans are actually Provo groupies, we have also the subjective hearsay testimony of an Aberdeen fan who choses to interpret what Celtic fans do, as being a complete blight against the club. But when it comes to the behaviour of his own club fans, we have all sorts of excuses being offered.
We certainly don't hear how Scottish society would be better off without Aberdeen fans 
Because of course, as the pseudo analysis might go if taken a step further, it's Rangers and Celtic are to blame for any humanity shortcomings with the Aberdeen support

There's just not a difficulty to recognise the attitudinal (not overt) bigotry against Irish ethnicity and how it's celebrated by Celtic fans, but what we have here is a complete denial of this type of bigotry existing in Scottish society.
And we have a rehash of the same excuse that was offered to explain this type of hatred towards Celtic fc as was offered to explain the bile abuse systematically thrown against Neil Lennon, that he was actually a horrible little angry man - he deserved it.

[saffron sam2]

Stockport fans wouldn't have a good word on Brian Kennedy. Well, the Daily Mirror's Oliver Holt anyway.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Why-Brian-Kennedy-and-Sale-Sharks-are-killing-Stockport-County-the-football-club-I-love-by-Oliver-Holt-article270857.html

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

  Celtic 

[Milltown Row2]

Celtic 

That's bound to lift Rangers spirits today. Good for the smaller clubs win a cup from the Old Firm

[Captain Obvious]

Celtic 

That's bound to lift Rangers spirits today. Good for the smaller clubs win a cup from the Old Firm

The frowns will be turned upside down.

[From the Bunker]

With the mess Rangers are in, Celtic not winning the 3rd most important Trophy in the Scottish Football season of little consulation.

[Main Street]

Rangers' green cousins ?? 
Shall we call Rangers,  'Aberdeeen's better half' 

[Main Street]

A reminder of the BBC R5 program this evening,  starting 19.00.

Rangers - What Next?

Scottish Premier League Football 2011-12
DURATION: 2 HOURS
'With the existence of Rangers Football Club in the balance, Mark Chapman presents a special programme from Glasgow to examine what's next for the historic Scottish club.
Hear from former players, managers, politicians, journalists and fans on why they think the club has got to this point, and what they feel is the future for Rangers.'

Personally, I feel the future for Rangers fc is rather bleak. It's hard at present to see them avoid liquidation, famine and player emigration.

[Main Street]

It was an interesting program. Roddy Forsyth thinks that a CVA is the most likely outcome, that the Inland Revenue would agree to that happening with a Scottish club.
But afaiaa, that CVA depends on Ticketus' £20m being considered a debt and in a CVA situation that Ticketus debt would just be placed in a queue along with other debts, to be seriously diluted.
So is it not strange that Ticketus are part of the leading bidding consortium for the club, the Blue Knights, who firmly believe that a CVA is the best way forward?
That Ticketus, the creditor most likely to block and vote against a CVA, are part of a consortium who have the CVA as their mantra? That the question of the Ticketus' £20m is now the subject of a court case where the administrators are trying to get that Ticketus contract terminated.

Another thing of note in the program was a tear jerker of a story by a Ranger's fan of how his dog came up to him and asked him
"how much is that new bed for me going to cost?"
the owners said  "about £40"
the dog stoically replied "forget about it, I don't need it, Rangers need it more"
The owner was moved by this touching humble gesture but even more than that, he was enveloped in a deep sense of pride,  his dog was a true bluenose.

A director of  Rangers fc (until recently) was asked 'if he knew anything untoward was going on?'
He said he knew nothing.
He was asked, 'well what about all the rumours?' 'did you not have or ask any questions of Whyte?'
The ex-director exclaimed, "what rumours?"
That exchange came near the end, when the program was trying to wrap up in a warm fuzzy haze of optimism and therefore escaped proper scrutiny.
  Some chat about entering the English league,
about 85% -90% of the bluenoses in the audience indicated they would agree to it, if it was possible.
Others in the panel said that with the tv money and the huge loyal support base, it would not take long (5 years says Alex Ferguson)  for Rangers and Celtic to be challenging for the EPL title.
Then both clubs could enter their B team in the SPL, thereby giving the other spl clubs a glimmer of hope of actually winning the title.

[Denn Forever]

A sordid tale all round.  Whyte seems to have been quite a character.

Will Hearts be the next one or is that just a "cash flow" problem?

[Main Street]

There was an interview with a tax expert, an accountant with Kingston Smith called Mike Hayes on SkySports tv.
It's a game of 2 halves, the first part has an interview with Murray, the 2nd half with Hayes.
The Ides of March for Rangers fc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2h6gqk_Ybw&feature=player_embedded#!

Mike Hayes. -  It would appear Inland Revenue  have evidence that these payments (EBT's) were a reward for employment and if they were contractual  they would be liable for tax and nat ins.

Q. The issue here is discretionary, were those EBT payments discretionary?

MH.  It would appear that that IR have emails between the club and certain football agents that indicate perhaps they weren't discretionary ....  that would appear to be the nub of the matter.


Q. Murray's point was that it's not just us who used ebv's, other companies and institutions used them as well?

MH. They are being investigated also and it's not just Rangers who are being taken to court.


Q. If Rangers win the big tax case does it suddenly become solvent?

MH. IR have indicated that they would appeal to the High Court if they lose, and the High Court tend not to favour aggressive tax avoidance/evasion schemes.
Rangers winning at the first hurdle does not mean they are free of the liability.
It could drag on for years, it could end up in the Supreme Court


Q. Even if they win at the highest court what happens to their solvency/ insolvency position?

MH. I would imagine it would be difficult unless it moves its business to another entity.


The ex Rangers director of football on the BBCR5 program I referred to was in fact Gordon Smith  ex director of football
He denied he knew about Whyte's mo, denied he heard any rumours about Whyte and actually denied that rumours existed.

http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/mark-daly-smith/s-1lnXz

[LondonCamanachd]

Rangers' green cousins ?? 
Shall we call Rangers,  'Aberdeeen's better half' 

Nah, judging by the average Ibrox crowd, ranger's cousins would also be their better halfs.

[LondonCamanachd]

Q. If Rangers win the big tax case does it suddenly become solvent?

MH. IR have indicated that they would appeal to the High Court if they lose, and the High Court tend not to favour aggressive tax avoidance/evasion schemes.
Rangers winning at the first hurdle does not mean they are free of the liability.
It could drag on for years, it could end up in the Supreme Court

Ignoring the big tax case and wee tax case, rangers are currently running at a £10 million/year deficit.  That cannot be sustainable, even if the debt disappeared overnight.

[Main Street]

There's an article in the Scotsman, musing about the SPL financial future and the Sky tv contract. Leads one to believe that impoverished SPL clubs like the Dundees, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell etc  would be putting pressure for Rangers fc to remain in the SPL and not banished to the 3rd division.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/tom-english-it-took-one-clever-assist-for-city-fans-to-chuck-their-morals-in-the-dustbin-and-hail-tevez-1-2195526

EXHIBIT C: SCOTTISH FOOTBALL

The news that Sky have inserted an Old Firm clause in the new £80m SPL television contract is not a surprise, but it raises certain questions nonetheless. Sky are saying that Rangers and Celtic must remain in the SPL or else they have a right to terminate a deal that so many clubs rely on to keep themselves afloat from one week to the next.

The club has already been found guilty of cheating on its taxes to the tune of £9-£15million. That's why they're in administration. Let's assume the Employee Benefit Trusts tax case verdict is damning. We're not saying it will be but, for the sake of an argument, let's say it is. And let's say that the SPL inquiry also produces a damaging result. The SPL and the SFA then have a decision to make. If morality counted for everything they would revoke Rangers' membership of the SPL and they would have to start again in the Third Division as punishment for their crimes.

But to do so would mean the ripping up of the broadcast contract which keeps the SPL alive and it would do nothing for the SPL's chances of finding a new title sponsor when Clydesdale Bank walk away the season after next.

This is a moral argument for another day. But you feel like you already know the answer, don't you?

[charlieTully]

bet you watched the game though?