NFL Division 2 2012

[Jinxy]

In general, the results in Div. 1 & 2 are all over the shop.
There's no consistent form-lines.
The last day of the league should be some craic.

[Maguire01]

The gap in standard between 2 and 3 is massive compared to the gap between any other divisions.

Couldn't agree more. There's a massive drop between Division 2 and 3. Monaghan's relegation last year wasn't a massive deal, but relegation this year would be a disaster.

[Maguire01]

Good win for Monaghan today posting a huge score. Pity we didn't use some of that scoring power last week v Derry.  Plenty of good performances in attack but the defence was wide open on numerous occasions.  All of the fullback line struggled at different times. Darren Hughes is probably wasted at fullback but I think after today he needs to go back there. In fairness to Louth some of the scores they hit were superb and one free in particular was from way beyond the 45m line.  McGuinness took his goal well and also fired over 3 nice points.

I didn't think the defence was too bad. Louth took some great long-range shots that by-passed the defence. And they never really threatened the keeper - you can't really count the OG. As I said before, I thought mid-field was a big problem, and has been for the past few games. I think the fact that Louth won so much at midfield, yet failed to convert it on the scoreboard, reflects fairly well on the defence. There's still room for improvement though.

As for McGuinness' goal - agreed, very well taken, but Jap's pass into him was brilliant - great vision.

[Syferus]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I just think what it takes to succeed in D3 isn't the same thing as what it takes to succeed in D2 and some D3 teams end up mired in the middle of D3 when they could just as easily be in the mid-table of D2 if they did get promoted.

[Maguire01]

In general, the results in Div. 1 & 2 are all over the shop.
There's no consistent form-lines.
The last day of the league should be some craic.

Yep - hasn't been this open in a long time. Only one team safe in Division 2 and theoretically, any team in Division 1 could still drop. But it'll probably still pan out with those expected to drop at the start of the year, being those who go down in each division.

[Maguire01]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I don't know how you can make that call, given that Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are beating the likes of Tipperary, Cavan and Offaly, who are probably well off D2 standard, in my opinion. They'd probably be on a similar level to Westmeath and Louth alright, but they're likely to be the kind of teams that 'yo-yo' between the two divisions - strong for D3, but no strong enough to be consistent D2.

[Dinny Breen]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I don't know how you can make that call, given that Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are beating the likes of Tipperary, Cavan and Offaly, who are probably well off D2 standard, in my opinion. They'd probably be on a similar level to Westmeath and Louth alright, but they're likely to be the kind of teams that 'yo-yo' between the two divisions - strong for D3, but no strong enough to be consistent D2.

The stats also back this up since 2008 Wexford, Fermanagh, Tipperary, Down, Antrim and Sligo have been promoted to Division 3 only Down have pushed on the rest were all relegated and this year it's looking ominous for Westmeath and Louth who were promoted last year.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

Seriously?

Not that I think we are particularly fantastic but big difference between doing well in division 3 and doing well in division 2. I'd argue the biggest gap between any of the divisions is between 2 and 3. As good as Longford for example have been going this year and fair play to them I still think we'd probably beat them more often than not.

[Maguire01]

I think all of this 'yo-yo'-ing of teams between the divisions supports my preference for 3 divisions of 11 - more chance that teams find their proper place. I'd also be opting for no finals/semi-finals (before anyone mentions the lack of time for extra games) - the winner is the team that tops the league after their 10 games, as a league should be.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I just think what it takes to succeed in D3 isn't the same thing as what it takes to succeed in D2 and some D3 teams end up mired in the middle of D3 when they could just as easily be in the mid-table of D2 if they did get promoted.

Houl on. 2 out of Galway, Westmeath and Louth are likely to go down so you'll be replacing them, not playing them. It's the rest of the teams you have to worry about.

There are 4 other sides along with Louth and Westmeath below us in the table. Don't forget them. Only side clear of worrying about relegation is Tyrone.

We might need another win but depending on other results the 5 we have now might even be enough.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I just think what it takes to succeed in D3 isn't the same thing as what it takes to succeed in D2 and some D3 teams end up mired in the middle of D3 when they could just as easily be in the mid-table of D2 if they did get promoted.

Houl on. 2 out of Galway, Westmeath and Louth are likely to go down so you'll be replacing them, not playing them. It's the rest of the teams you have to worry about.

There are 4 other sides along with Louth and Westmeath below us in the table. Don't forget them.

I only mentioned Galway with Louth and Westmeath because he did. The two who are likely to go down are Louth and Westmeath.

Probably but I haven't looked at their fixtures. Or Derry's. We have some tough games left so I don't expect us to finish where we are at the moment.

[Dinny Breen]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I just think what it takes to succeed in D3 isn't the same thing as what it takes to succeed in D2 and some D3 teams end up mired in the middle of D3 when they could just as easily be in the mid-table of D2 if they did get promoted.

Houl on. 2 out of Galway, Westmeath and Louth are likely to go down so you'll be replacing them, not playing them. It's the rest of the teams you have to worry about.

There are 4 other sides along with Louth and Westmeath below us in the table. Don't forget them. Only side clear of worrying about relegation is Tyrone.

Absolutely Galway v Kildare in the last game could easily be a relegation decider as a promotion decider.

What's the separator if more than two teams that finish level on points? Points difference or head to head?

[Syferus]

The difference at the moment is all three of Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are very confident in their abilities to compete at higher levels and are coming off good 2011 championship form. If one of them crashed and burned in the 2012 championship it might damage them but right now they'd have zero fear of the vast majority of D2 teams.

Wexford yo-yo'd after their All-Ireland semi but they've obviously built a very dangerous outfit over the last two years, but for a Masterson mistake Dublin wouldn't have been Leinster champions and but for a questionable point they'd have been in an All-Ireland quarter-final.

This Longford team is the finest I've ever seen, they play with a great unity and belief, as fit as any D2 team, and coming back from two sucker punch goals in the first half and a five point deficit in the second half to beat us (Roscommon) last week typifies the progress they've made.

The current Roscommon team has the potential to be a D1 team, of that I have absolutely no doubt. We're loaded with young players that'll take a few more years to fully develop but this squad is the most complete Roscommon panel since the early 90's, a team itself that was severely unlucky not to make the 1991 All-Ireland final. Roscommon historically have been a D1/D2 team, with us playing in D1 as recently as 2008, our recent skid down the league has done a very good job at masking the fact that we tended to, even when championship form was off, be a threat to any team in the league.

All three are coming off good championship form, Longford pushed Tyrone to the limit last year and we had a back-to-back provincial title in the bag (how many D2 teams can claim that?) but for a blizzard and were more than equal to Tyrone before our inexperienced bench meant we had no answer for subs of the quality of Brian Dooher and Owen Mulligan. That's a Tyrone squad that was better than the team currently cutting shreds through D2.

So if all three have a good chance of beating three of the current D2 teams, Galway, Westmeath and Louth, that alone that means at least one of the soon-to-be-promoted teams has a very good chance of being in D2 come 2014, and that's disregarding the fact Monaghan, Derry or Meath would be particularly confident of beating any of those teams. The standard gap is lower for these three counties than some others who've made the step up. Obviously the tie between the two promoted D3 teams next season will be crucial in deciding who stays up, but the teams coming down from D1 next season are unlikely to be as hot as Tyrone are this season either.

Westmeath have a bit of the Roscommon's about them at the moment, a team not doing anything in the championship but able to pull results out in the league, they're definitely are caught in the middle ground between D2 and D3. Tipp and Sligo didn't preform last year - Sligo are a team still damaged from the 2010 Connacht final - but the crop coming up will make D2 the most unpredictable division in the league next season.

[Maguire01]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I just think what it takes to succeed in D3 isn't the same thing as what it takes to succeed in D2 and some D3 teams end up mired in the middle of D3 when they could just as easily be in the mid-table of D2 if they did get promoted.

Houl on. 2 out of Galway, Westmeath and Louth are likely to go down so you'll be replacing them, not playing them. It's the rest of the teams you have to worry about.

There are 4 other sides along with Louth and Westmeath below us in the table. Don't forget them. Only side clear of worrying about relegation is Tyrone.

We might need another win but depending on other results the 5 we have now might even be enough.

I'd say 5 could be enough. It's hard to see where Louth will get another 2 points or Westmeath get 3. I think next weekend will put some clear water between teams in Division 2. Derry could sweat for a while yet, but they've got their two easiest games, on paper, at the end.

[Maguire01]

I'd question that. Longford, Roscommon and Wexford are fully capable of at least being mid-level D2 teams right now. All three I'd rate higher than Galway, Westmeath and Louth and on an almost even keel with Derry and Meath, depending on the venue all three would have a very real shot at beating those two.

I just think what it takes to succeed in D3 isn't the same thing as what it takes to succeed in D2 and some D3 teams end up mired in the middle of D3 when they could just as easily be in the mid-table of D2 if they did get promoted.

Houl on. 2 out of Galway, Westmeath and Louth are likely to go down so you'll be replacing them, not playing them. It's the rest of the teams you have to worry about.

There are 4 other sides along with Louth and Westmeath below us in the table. Don't forget them. Only side clear of worrying about relegation is Tyrone.

Absolutely Galway v Kildare in the last game could easily be a relegation decider as a promotion decider.

What's the separator if more than two teams that finish level on points? Points difference or head to head?

It should be points difference, but as this is the GAA, I expect it will be head-to-head like last season (when Monaghan were relegated from D1, despite being 6th in the table).