O'Donoughue starts ranting again...

[deiseach]

but while we're at it, give us details about the grounds you mentioned roversfan. Particularly Laois, where they've just had a development in the old car park (read 'field') out front. Perhaps you can tell us all what plans they have for their pitch, and their plans to 'sell' it.

Good question. Don't expect an answer though.

[bottlethrower7]

... the article in question only referred to Croke Park ...

Got a link to this, BT?

tribune.ie still shows last weeks paper. Not sure what day they update it. I'll keep an eye out for it and if it appears I'll post a link.

[magickingdom]

"Got a link to this, BT?"


yesterdays tribune, excellent article. anyone who reads it will also see why john o donoghue will not lose his seat over his tallaght strategy..

[Hardy]

Thanks boys.

[dublinfella]

"and Laois, Kerry, Kildare etc who are talking about selling their county grounds arent doing the exact same thing? why when soccer do it its money grabbing but when the GAA do it its great business accumen? and when the GAA take state money its the lotto and when soccer take it its directly from the excehquer? do i smell hypocricy?

if you are going to lift a line from the tribune, think it through...."



i've already explained my line of thought on this so for the last time dublinfella: the soccer clubs involved are professional soccer clubs, they should not get any taxpayers money. i've previously said i'm alll for giving money to amateur soccer. the gaa clubs are amateur...

you are avoiding the question. why is it ok for the GAA to do deals with property players involving stadiums plus cash for existing sites but some form of scam when soccer clubs do the exact same thing?

can we avoid the clichéd profesional versus amateur nonsense for a moment. they clearly are entitled to capital grants regardless of your opinion on the subject. as an aside it was iinteresting to hear in court that TD have 2 full time staff. thats 2 more than Shamrock Rovers. who are the 'commercial' and 'professional' entity.

Im getting at the utter hypocricy people on this board have when it comes to soccer.

[bottlethrower7]

you are avoiding the question.

well you should know, given your own expertise at doing likewise.

[dublinfella]

you are avoiding the question.

well you should know, given your own expertise at doing likewise.

so I am inventing the fact that Kildare, Kerry and iirc Monaghan and a few others are in the process/discussions about selling major grounds to property players?

There was a big discussion about it.

[bottlethrower7]

you are avoiding the question.

well you should know, given your own expertise at doing likewise.

so I am inventing the fact that Kildare, Kerry and iirc Monaghan and a few others are in the process/discussions about selling major grounds to property players?

There was a big discussion about it.

you mentioned Laois, so 'yes', you invented it.

[realredhandfan]

I believe John O Donoghue has fucked this up Dublinfella not the GAA.  According to yesterdays sindo T Davis and S Rovers were doing a deal until the ministers intervention.  The GAA has only had 19 million of tax payers money with 114 coming from the lotto tickets that we all buy in the wee shop on the donegall derry border, not a tax but a voluntary purchase / donation by the people.  

[Hardy]

TD have 2 full time staff. thats 2 more than Shamrock Rovers. who are the 'commercial' and 'professional' entity.

You're a bit confused, I think. Surely the fact that TD are providing employment or, more to the point, that Shambolic Rovers are not*, reinforces the argument against subsidising this sports-entertainment business setup.

You're fast and loose with the allegations of hypocrisy and accusations of avoiding the question . Since you're not a man to avoid the question, remind me again where you answered these questions of mine (from page 5 of this thread):

- Why should Shamrock Rovers be given a stadium (almost) free for their exclusive use?
- Why won't every other League of Ireland club then apply for the same from their local authority?
- Won't they have a case for a discrimination suit if they're refused, given that one of their competitors in a commercial enterprise was singled out to receive capital funding from the state, to the commercial disadvantage of every other participant in the market?
- What criteria have been applied to the public subvention  process that result in Shamrock Rovers emerging as the sole sports club selected to receive almost full public funding for their capital projects?
- (What happens when) our club decides to take a case for discrimination when Cork Co. Co. (as they undoubtedly will) refuse our application for a free stadium under the same criteria.?

* apart from payments to part-time players for second jobs – people who have to be paid to take part in their sport. I'll be charitable and refrain from wondering out loud about the P30 returns.

[bottlethrower7]

yet again the silence is deafening.

come on roverslad, what about it? Lets have answers to Hardy's questions.

[lynchbhoy]

I think dublinrovers fella makes a valid point that some of you might wish to clarify...

imo
the question was
if Clare, Kildare - and I am sure Laois was a slip of the fingers - wish to sell their grounds to developers for big bucks , before relocating to sites not too far away
whay is that different to Bohs etc selling up and getting the cash


I belive the answer to what people object to is that bohs etc received gov/specific funding for ground improvements etc.
These were either not done or if they were , and Bohs sell up - surely that is a huge waste of tax payers money.

The GAA grounds for sale - Clare/kildare etc did not (to my knowledge) receive funding from the Gov etc - but any funding they had was from GAA HQ as is what GAA does with its annual gate receipts - plough it back into grounds and playing development throughout the country.
Therefore no waste of taxpayers money.
As the local GAA funded most of this, and own their grounds, I cannot see any problem for them selling current grounds and banking profits - to be used in local GAA games development.


I agree that bohs/rovers etc all should have to pay back what funding they squandered wastefully.

I could be wrong with my assumptions but that would be my take on the matter

[bottlethrower7]

I think dublinrovers fella makes a valid point that some of you might wish to clarify...

imo
the question was
if Clare, Kildare - and I am sure Laois was a slip of the fingers - wish to sell their grounds to developers for big bucks , before relocating to sites not too far away
whay is that different to Bohs etc selling up and getting the cash


I belive the answer to what people object to is that bohs etc received gov/specific funding for ground improvements etc.
These were either not done or if they were , and Bohs sell up - surely that is a huge waste of tax payers money.

The GAA grounds for sale - Clare/kildare etc did not (to my knowledge) receive funding from the Gov etc - but any funding they had was from GAA HQ as is what GAA does with its annual gate receipts - plough it back into grounds and playing development throughout the country.
Therefore no waste of taxpayers money.
As the local GAA funded most of this, and own their grounds, I cannot see any problem for them selling current grounds and banking profits - to be used in local GAA games development.


I agree that bohs/rovers etc all should have to pay back what funding they squandered wastefully.

I could be wrong with my assumptions but that would be my take on the matter

lynch bhoy (I have serious issues addressing anyone with 'bhoy' as part of their handle but I'll make an exception this once), since you are championing roversman's cause, tell us this, since when is O'Moore Park for sale? Newbridge and Cusack Park are 2 of the most decrepid stadia out there so perhaps you can detail the government funding each has recieved in the last 20 years. I'd go beyond that but I reckon in 20 years or thereabouts one could be deemed to have gotten fair use out of their ground to have justified any funding to that point. And, is Newbridge for sale? I recall Waterford contemplating selling Fraher Field but deciding against it for the reason that an all-Ireland hurling final was played there back in the day. I think thats whats they call morals.

[lynchbhoy]

I think dublinrovers fella makes a valid point that some of you might wish to clarify...

imo
the question was
if Clare, Kildare - and I am sure Laois was a slip of the fingers - wish to sell their grounds to developers for big bucks , before relocating to sites not too far away
whay is that different to Bohs etc selling up and getting the cash
I belive the answer to what people object to is that bohs etc received gov/specific funding for ground improvements etc.
These were either not done or if they were , and Bohs sell up - surely that is a huge waste of tax payers money.
The GAA grounds for sale - Clare/kildare etc did not (to my knowledge) receive funding from the Gov etc - but any funding they had was from GAA HQ as is what GAA does with its annual gate receipts - plough it back into grounds and playing development throughout the country.
Therefore no waste of taxpayers money.
As the local GAA funded most of this, and own their grounds, I cannot see any problem for them selling current grounds and banking profits - to be used in local GAA games development.
I agree that bohs/rovers etc all should have to pay back what funding they squandered wastefully.
I could be wrong with my assumptions but that would be my take on the matter

lynch bhoy (I have serious issues addressing anyone with 'bhoy' as part of their handle but I'll make an exception this once), since you are championing roversman's cause, tell us this, since when is O'Moore Park for sale? Newbridge and Cusack Park are 2 of the most decrepid stadia out there so perhaps you can detail the government funding each has recieved in the last 20 years. I'd go beyond that but I reckon in 20 years or thereabouts one could be deemed to have gotten fair use out of their ground to have justified any funding to that point. And, is Newbridge for sale? I recall Waterford contemplating selling Fraher Field but deciding against it for the reason that an all-Ireland hurling final was played there back in the day. I think thats whats they call morals.

Not shire why you dont like my moniker here - hardly offensive
anyhow  - if you read what I wrote, I was doing anything BUT championing Dubroverfellas cause!
Quite the opposite I thought..

[dublinfella]

bottlethrower,  i dont live on the internet. not getting a reply immediatly doenst mean im hiding, its just that, well, im not online. grow up.

Hardy, Rovers have a deal. Thats that. Its binding. They give SDCC the land, SDCC finish the ground, they get anchor tenent status. Deal with it. I presume its a combination of FF 'owing them one' over the milltown debacle and SDCC wanting to have a professional soccer club in their new county. They struck a good deal and i say fair play.

You are contradicting yourself. Now Rovers are to be punsihed for not being 'commercial' enough and having a volunteer setup. Again, childish stuff. And Rovers are tax compliant, which is more than most GAA clubs. Do your club pay VAT on gate reciepts? Tax 'expenses'? Glass houses on the tax issue big time.

Waterford Utd play in a municipal ground and have done for years. There wasnt a rush to follow them so that line of thought is redundant.

The free stadium line has been debunked totally by now.

Lynchbhoy, thats exactly what I was getting at. Laois was a mistake, hands up. But the substantive point is there. County boards are doing the same as Bohs, but they are somehow scamming. The level of funding Boihs got is exactly in line with all major GAA projects, and i find it very hard to believe no public funding went into the stadia possibly for the chop. its a specious argument and tbh shows how the GAA spin machine is clutching at straws now.

redhandfan. according to Shamrock Rovers there never was an agreement. There was a meeting 5 years ago where TD proposed something to the SRFC chairman, but it was rejected out of hand.