Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann in row over Derry Bid to hold Fleadh

[ziggysego]

Q. How do you know that you are on an airplane full of Derry people?

A. When the engines stop you can still hear the whinning.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

As a Derry Man i have to say that this was doomed from the start. There are many reasons why. Of course its an All Ireland Festival and I can see why you would want to reinforce and legitimise your  Irishness  by staging it in Derry, but this should have been done on an ordinary year. That would have made the bid more genuine. Instead it was thrown in on the back of the UK city of culture bid, why because Gerry O' hÉara was involved and his main aim in life is to make money, not just make it but max it out. I live in Derry, and a lot of good Gaels have been hurt by this, they have been hoodwinked by business minded individuals into doing this at a very late stage. I am not a facist, i am not narrow minded and I am not anti British, but i do see the link with the UK thing a bit strange. This is an Irish Festival, why would you hold it under the UK city of culture banner? Derry should bid for it in 2014, get rid of the politicians and let the genuine Gaels run it themselves.

[Orangemac]

Has the All Ireland Fleadh ever been held in the North?

[Nally Stand]

Has the All Ireland Fleadh ever been held in the North?

Yeah, Donegal. Never been in the six counties tho!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_venues_for_All_Ireland_Fleadh_Cheoil_na_h%C3%89ireann

[Dougal Maguire]

Bottom line is that it should have been beaten by either Sligo or Ennis as Ulster will already have had it 3 years on the trot and apart from once in the 1950s no province has had it any more that three times in a row. Its just as well the same BBC hoors - Nolan and Wendy Austin who were complaining about it today would also have been complaining about the amount of on street drinking had Derry got the Fleadh. Keep it in the 26

[give her dixie]

Interesting article from the Irish News on Saturday.

Britain seeking copyright of cultural nationalism

Patrick Murphy, Irish News Saturday January 21st 2012

Are you going to next year's Fleadh Cheoil naEireann in Londonderry? The Fleadh is a particularly Irish event, reflecting a proud tradition of music and song which survived centuries of ridicule, scorn and suppression. Following political pressure, this all-Ireland music festival is now a likely event in the UK City of Culture programme for 2013.

Should such an event be included in a celebration of UK culture, particularly since the Scots, Welsh and English will confirm that there is no such thing as UK culture? The answer is a plain, and politely blunt, 'No'. But there is a more intriguing question - how did we arrive at the point where Irish culture might be included as part of a British celebration in Ireland? The answer lies in recent history, Britain's understanding of how to shape that history and the contemporary gymnastics of Irish political nationalism.

The City of Culture (CoC) is a British government attempt to cash in on the European Capital of Culture concept which brought economic benefits to Glasgow and Liverpool. Derry's application sought some of those benefits. Good luck to is people for that, especially since the city has a proud cultural tradition. The government's idea was that the winning city would become a focus of national attention. (That, presumably, is the UK nation.) It could host high-profile events including the Turner Prize (which is scheduled for Derry), the BBC sports personality award (which is not) and the Brits (that's Brits as in "in", not Brits as in "out".) Since UK culture was too London-centric, the capital was excluded from bidding. So they made it Londonderry-centric instead.

Derry's application, which was highly professional, was three parts culture and two parts politics. For example, it claimed that CoC status would spark the city's economic recovery by tackling inequalities in health, employment and education. It would also address child poverty and tell the story of the peace process.

In June 2010, the British government admitted that its army had killed 13 peaceful civil rights marchers on Bloody Sunday. This admission was applauded even though we already knew what happened. Truth, like cultural recognition can come only from London. Four weeks later, guess what? Derry became the first UK City of Culture. Everyone applauded again. Bloody, said some, no longer needed commemoration.

Derry's UK CoC status rests easily with current constitutional nationalism. Sinn Fein and the SDLP work within partition and, if you vote, you have given them a democratic mandate to do so. But political nationalism's pro-British stance risks drifting apart from cultural nationalism. Language, dance, music and song have perpetuated the idea of Irish separateness from Britain from one generation to the next. Irish rebellion was often rooted in poetry as much as politics.

The British recognise this better than most. The 1916 Rising had significant roots in the Gaelic revival of late 19th century. If you were in Whitehall today trying to bed down the latest British victory in Ireland, you would bring cultural nationalism into line with political nationalism. That explains the political pressure to bring the Fleadh to a British-government event in Ireland.

The British have always used local culture to reinforce colonial power. You know the sort of thing - locals dance for the Duke of Edinburgh while he makes smart comments. Including exclusively Irish events in a British festival is part of that same tradition. The duke could come to Derry and make hilarious jokes about the uilleann pipes and an octopus. We could then all fall around laughing and saying how wonderful royalty is. Then we could present him with a hurling stick. Oh no, we have done that bit already.

But the Fleadh is not only significant Irish cultural event proposed for the UK City of Culture. Oireachtas no Gaeilge is also in the draft programme. First organised in 1897 by Conradh na Gaeilge (Gaelic League), this annual festival of arts and culture is run entirely in Irish. It represents what might be termed the gold standard of Irish culture. It nearly disappeared at one point through cultural snobbery but for the past 40 years it has been a vibrant event, celebrating a culture which Britain failed to kill.

Exercising political control over a nation's culture cuts off a significant source of potential political opposition. If some of that opposition expresses itself through violence, the task is so much easier.

Having gained control of political nationalism, Britain is now seeking the copyright of cultural nationalism as well. Irish history shows that some will be willing to sell it and others will rush to resist the sale in the wrong way.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Bottom line is that it should have been beaten by either Sligo or Ennis as Ulster will already have had it 3 years on the trot and apart from once in the 1950s no province has had it any more that three times in a row. Its just as well the same BBC hoors - Nolan and Wendy Austin who were complaining about it today would also have been complaining about the amount of on street drinking had Derry got the Fleadh. Keep it in the 26

[/b]

Your post was OK until the last line-tongue in cheek I hope

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Interesting article from the Irish News on Saturday.

Britain seeking copyright of cultural nationalism

Patrick Murphy, Irish News Saturday January 21st 2012

Are you going to next year's Fleadh Cheoil naEireann in Londonderry? The Fleadh is a particularly Irish event, reflecting a proud tradition of music and song which survived centuries of ridicule, scorn and suppression. Following political pressure, this all-Ireland music festival is now a likely event in the UK City of Culture programme for 2013.

Should such an event be included in a celebration of UK culture, particularly since the Scots, Welsh and English will confirm that there is no such thing as UK culture? The answer is a plain, and politely blunt, 'No'. But there is a more intriguing question - how did we arrive at the point where Irish culture might be included as part of a British celebration in Ireland? The answer lies in recent history, Britain's understanding of how to shape that history and the contemporary gymnastics of Irish political nationalism.

The City of Culture (CoC) is a British government attempt to cash in on the European Capital of Culture concept which brought economic benefits to Glasgow and Liverpool. Derry's application sought some of those benefits. Good luck to is people for that, especially since the city has a proud cultural tradition. The government's idea was that the winning city would become a focus of national attention. (That, presumably, is the UK nation.) It could host high-profile events including the Turner Prize (which is scheduled for Derry), the BBC sports personality award (which is not) and the Brits (that's Brits as in "in", not Brits as in "out".) Since UK culture was too London-centric, the capital was excluded from bidding. So they made it Londonderry-centric instead.

Derry's application, which was highly professional, was three parts culture and two parts politics. For example, it claimed that CoC status would spark the city's economic recovery by tackling inequalities in health, employment and education. It would also address child poverty and tell the story of the peace process.

In June 2010, the British government admitted that its army had killed 13 peaceful civil rights marchers on Bloody Sunday. This admission was applauded even though we already knew what happened. Truth, like cultural recognition can come only from London. Four weeks later, guess what? Derry became the first UK City of Culture. Everyone applauded again. Bloody, said some, no longer needed commemoration.

Derry's UK CoC status rests easily with current constitutional nationalism. Sinn Fein and the SDLP work within partition and, if you vote, you have given them a democratic mandate to do so. But political nationalism's pro-British stance risks drifting apart from cultural nationalism. Language, dance, music and song have perpetuated the idea of Irish separateness from Britain from one generation to the next. Irish rebellion was often rooted in poetry as much as politics.

The British recognise this better than most. The 1916 Rising had significant roots in the Gaelic revival of late 19th century. If you were in Whitehall today trying to bed down the latest British victory in Ireland, you would bring cultural nationalism into line with political nationalism. That explains the political pressure to bring the Fleadh to a British-government event in Ireland.

The British have always used local culture to reinforce colonial power. You know the sort of thing - locals dance for the Duke of Edinburgh while he makes smart comments. Including exclusively Irish events in a British festival is part of that same tradition. The duke could come to Derry and make hilarious jokes about the uilleann pipes and an octopus. We could then all fall around laughing and saying how wonderful royalty is. Then we could present him with a hurling stick. Oh no, we have done that bit already.

But the Fleadh is not only significant Irish cultural event proposed for the UK City of Culture. Oireachtas no Gaeilge is also in the draft programme. First organised in 1897 by Conradh na Gaeilge (Gaelic League), this annual festival of arts and culture is run entirely in Irish. It represents what might be termed the gold standard of Irish culture. It nearly disappeared at one point through cultural snobbery but for the past 40 years it has been a vibrant event, celebrating a culture which Britain failed to kill.

Exercising political control over a nation's culture cuts off a significant source of potential political opposition. If some of that opposition expresses itself through violence, the task is so much easier.

Having gained control of political nationalism, Britain is now seeking the copyright of cultural nationalism as well. Irish history shows that some will be willing to sell it and others will rush to resist the sale in the wrong way.

Very good article

[Leo]

Some of the saddest culturally-exclusive juggling I have ever witnessed.
The fleadh in Derry would have blown any pretence of a so-called UK culture into space.
We are our own worst enemies beyond any doubt.

[Ulick]

To be honest when I see the likes of former NIO lackies like Murphy take a position I instinctively gravitate to the opposite side. It's a fecking Fleadh we're talking about here, not a Rising and I'd like to think that we've enough confidence and pride in our culture than to reduce it to a tool in some imagined cultural war against the Brits. Bringing the Fleadh north, normalises the six counties as another Irish region and it takes a special type of spectacular polemical gymnastics on the scale of Murphy's article to suggest the opposite.

[sheamy]

To be honest when I see the likes of former NIO lackies like Murphy take a position I instinctively gravitate to the opposite side. It's a fecking Fleadh we're talking about here, not a Rising and I'd like to think that we've enough confidence and pride in our culture than to reduce it to a tool in some imagined cultural war against the Brits. Bringing the Fleadh north, normalises the six counties as another Irish region and it takes a special type of spectacular polemical gymnastics on the scale of Murphy's article to suggest the opposite.

So you pro or against now? I'm confused...your position seems to be, bring it north, but not to Derry?

[Ulick]

To be honest when I see the likes of former NIO lackies like Murphy take a position I instinctively gravitate to the opposite side. It's a fecking Fleadh we're talking about here, not a Rising and I'd like to think that we've enough confidence and pride in our culture than to reduce it to a tool in some imagined cultural war against the Brits. Bringing the Fleadh north, normalises the six counties as another Irish region and it takes a special type of spectacular polemical gymnastics on the scale of Murphy's article to suggest the opposite.

So you pro or against now? I'm confused...your position seems to be, bring it north, but not to Derry?

My position has always been that Derry jumped the queue, aside from that I've no objection in principle. I've attended most Fleadhs from the early '80s and know how much northern Gaels wanted to bring it across the border and the work they've put in to that end - the only thing is Derry was never on anybodys radar.

[Denn Forever]

Had Derry not received the word tha it was going to be the City of Culture for 2013 a few years ago?

I would have thought have the fleadh as part of the Cultural events would be a no brainer.

[sheamy]

Had Derry not received the word tha it was going to be the City of Culture for 2013 a few years ago?

I would have thought have the fleadh as part of the Cultural events would be a no brainer.

you would think so Denn, wouldn't you? You're making far too much simple logical sense there though. You'd want to watch that, it might catch on...

[Hardy]

This whole row seems to centre on a semantic misunderstanding. Derry is to be the UK City of Culture for 2013, not the City Of UK Culture.