americas problem with communism?

[lawnseed]

why? why do sinn feins properly costed plans automatically lead ireland to a worse place? how do you know this mayo? why does making those who can pay more pay more lead to ruin. why does reducing the wages of top civil servants lead to ruin what are they going to do? emmigrate? so what?

[Eamonnca1]

Ulick, instead of coming across as snidey, why don't you just tell us what 'real communism' is?

Wobbler I've had this debate on here before and I just find the ignorance of the concept tiresome. The Internet is full of wonderful informative resources nowadays, if someone wants to seriously debate a topic the least they could do is firstly go off and familiarize themselves with it before compounding the ignorance. Here's a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Translation: "I can't be bothered backing up my point so I want you to go off, do the research for me and post it here on my behalf."  Sorry, but you are the one trying to argue that Soviet Russia wasn't Communist, the burden of proof is on you to back up that point, not me.

To say that Russia or the Soviet Union was communist is as nonsensical to saying NI is a republic because Sinn Féin are in government.

If SF were the only party in the north and all other parties were banned then you might have some sort of analogy.

[Mike Sheehy]

did you actually read this? the point is that on the face if it with my modern home and two cars and perceived better life. i should have an idyllic lifestyle when in fact my working week is getting longer and longer just to make ends meet. also that now that same land couldnt even support one person. tell me thats progress

Yes, I read it. It is a self-pitying, whinging pile of shit.

You still have a job, you still have your house. You DO have that "perceived" better life that many others have lost (and that you could never have even in the most utopian realization of this communist state you long for). What you need, lad, is a good kick up the hole.

[mannix]

I think more than him needs a kick in the hole.

[Mike Sheehy]

I think more than him needs a kick in the hole.

Well, me auld sleeveen..... are you still over there in New York smiling in the Yanks faces and then whinging about them as soon as they have their backs turned ?

[Eamonnca1]

the point is that on the face if it with my modern home and two cars and perceived better life. i should have an idyllic lifestyle when in fact my working week is getting longer and longer just to make ends meet. also that now that same land couldnt even support one person. tell me thats progress

Play me the world's smallest violin. You're like Padraig Flynn moaning about the cost of running two houses.

[Eamonnca1]

minder we had a democratic change of government here less than a year ago we changed leaders.. nothing has changed.

the results of a health survey carried out on two work forces one in India and one in china(same company) who gained access to the western diet eg fast food and precooked meals because they were working for western companies were so bad that the Chinese government refused to let the survey continue. in India 40% of the workers surveyed were showing signs of type 2. diabetes in India has historically been amongst the lowest on earth.

Oh boy. Newly developed countries now suffering from the same problems that the rest of the developed world suffers from? Well we'd better wind the clock back and put them back into poverty then. Better to suffer from malnutrition and have high infant mortality than to put up with diabetes and obesity, what?

what I'm driving at is that i believe we are being farmed like cattle here in the 'free west' and basically we are no more free than the countries we c**k a snook at. i think that America fears communism because its run by huge businesses who fund/buy the politicians they want to do the business for them. eg George bush during his oil industry funded regime. he by his criminal actions cause the price of oil to treble he was actually a great president for those who paid to keep him there. obamas campaign was funded by the pharmaceutical industry- changes to health regulations have seen billions pour into their bank accounts. under communist  governance these huge organisations would be nationalised and come under the ownership of the state rendering them powerless to control. i think these outfits see the appeal of communism to the ordinary man and it scares the shiet out of them.

Yeah, right. Nationalized industry would be so much better, wouldn't it?  Remind me again of how content the workers were at British Leyland when it was nationalized?  How good were their products?  That's right, their cars were shite and the workers were always on strike.

Your problem with private corporate governance seems to be that it puts corporations under the control of a small number of people. Here is the news. Nationalized companies are still under the control of a small number of people. The difference is that private companies are accountable to shareholders. Nationalized companies are a law onto themselves by comparison since they only have one shareholder, namely the government.

[mannix]

  nice to see a mayo man getting under a Kerry mans skin. Actually going snowboarding tomorrow with a bunch of yanks in vermont. You seem to be confusing my dislike for military intervention where it's not needed or warranted with a disliking of the country, and a lot of the natives here have similar views and I have lived here on and off for 20 years so I am well qualified to express a fairly informed opinion.
I am still glad I was born and reared in Ireland, and I defend it to anyone that cares to put it down, even to some of the more Americanized Irish born lads that call it names and run it down despite it being their homeland.
Off out for pint so goodnight and chill  .

[tyssam5]

there is another little problem for america, stats reveal that the hispanic population in the US is exploding and that by 2030 they could be 40% of the total population. these people are typically low paid or employed and decendents of the very people who have in the past favoured marxists politics. it will be very interesting for those who are still around at that time to see how english speaking white american capitalists try to sell the american dream to folk who have very little to dream about but can still vote.

Have a think about what you've written here. You could make an argument that NAFTA has added to poverty in Mexico, or that US drug consumption adds to the current state of chaos there. But those aside there's a reason people have and continue to emigrate to the USA.

You think in 2030  he decendents of current Latino immigrants will still be working low wage jobs? The history of immigrants would tell you otherwise. They'll be educated, working better jobs than their parents and forming a powerful voting block. I think myself they'll be great for health of the country.

[muppet]

The problem with communism and contrary to popular belief it has never been tried. That so many people seem to think that communist states have existed display nothing more than complete ignorance of what it is or entails.

Woooooooh!

Let me guess, all critics of communism have been successfully discredited by you?

[lawnseed]

did you actually read this? the point is that on the face if it with my modern home and two cars and perceived better life. i should have an idyllic lifestyle when in fact my working week is getting longer and longer just to make ends meet. also that now that same land couldnt even support one person. tell me thats progress

Yes, I read it. It is a self-pitying, whinging pile of shit.

You still have a job, you still have your house. You DO have that "perceived" better life that many others have lost (and that you could never have even in the most utopian realization of this communist state you long for). What you need, lad, is a good kick up the hole.

you have't read this thread at all, have you? i suggest you start at page 1. keep the word 'sustainability' somewhere in your head. what i'm saying is that the boom bust, up down, rich poor, lets fight over the last wee drop of oil last 100 years isnt sustainable. it will end because it has to. we need a more sustainable system of governance. ffs the banks are broke! they're the places capitalists put their money. it hasnt worked. btw you may have heard of the 99 movement. they are the fast growing protest group in the US the 99 meaning 1% of americans have 99% of the wealth. i suppose they all need a kick up the hole

[lawnseed]

The problem with communism and contrary to popular belief it has never been tried. That so many people seem to think that communist states have existed display nothing more than complete ignorance of what it is or entails.

Woooooooh!

Let me guess, all critics of communism have been successfully discredited by you?

americas problem with communism.. is... ? stick to the thread just like you capitalists to resort to violence and personal abuse. mccarthyites!!!

[muppet]

The problem with communism and contrary to popular belief it has never been tried. That so many people seem to think that communist states have existed display nothing more than complete ignorance of what it is or entails.

Woooooooh!

Let me guess, all critics of communism have been successfully discredited by you?

americas problem with communism.. is... ? stick to the thread just like you capitalists to resort to violence and personal abuse. mccarthyites!!!

That isn't abuse, it is a reference to the stereo-typical response to any criticism from a certain element here. '***' has been discredited therefore cannot be considered. Surely you have seen it before?

As for MacCarthy I doubt if anyone here would defend that sort of lunacy, TO maybe but that would be it.

Now, as an experiment, I suggest you go into a bar popular with Eastern Europeans and shout at the top of your voice how brilliant Communists are. I suspect they know a bit more about it that yourself, myself or Ulick.

[Buswhacker]

Ideal in theory,but does not work in practice.

[muppet]

True Communism, like true Capitalism, would have be implemented without compromise. That could only be done with a strong military hand in both cases.

I wouldn't be optimistic.