IRA "fired first" in 1987 attack in Loughgall

[Maguire01]

They're supporting the families Myles. The families believe the men could have been arrested instead of being killed and the fact that a number of them were summarily executed kind of supports their point.

Maybe they are but it is hypocrisy. If like me you believe the conflict was a war then you can hardly expect to receive better than you give. For example,       should the ira pay compensation to every off duty soldier or ruc man they "executed". IRA men knew what they signed up for and were well aware they would most likely end up dead or in jail. Compo for families is ridiculous.

+1 Myles, total hypocricy.

These men were killed when they were actually in the process of attacking their target - it's not like they were shot when they were 'off-duty', around the house, at work, or just, say, coming out of mass... and we know that plenty of people were killed in such circumstances. And I imagine some people on here would have thought that to be perfectly legitimate. But probably wouldn't be as quick to use words like 'execution' in those cases.

[trileacman]

[Ulick]

They're supporting the families Myles. The families believe the men could have been arrested instead of being killed and the fact that a number of them were summarily executed kind of supports their point.

Maybe they are but it is hypocrisy. If like me you believe the conflict was a war then you can hardly expect to receive better than you give. For example,       should the ira pay compensation to every off duty soldier or ruc man they "executed". IRA men knew what they signed up for and were well aware they would most likely end up dead or in jail. Compo for families is ridiculous.

Myles, as I already said to lynchboy, the families didn't get compensation for the deaths - and it should be said, they didn't seek any.

[Myles Na G.]

I think people will see from this post , the difference between sf and the IRA.

sf (or some of them like mr mcelduff). We all know it was a war. thats why republicans accepted as well as mourned those killed at loughall.
I didnt realise that some republican families had received compo - not something that is pursued by republican families that I have heard of at least.

I know people are unhappy that those killed at loughall were done in an ambush, but again its a war and that the way war goes.
if it wasnt a war then the authorities would have tried to arrest them prior to this point.
Again it disproves the loyalist/unionst claims (from some of their posters on this board) that it wasnt a war.
Also that the war ended up in stalemate as they generally do with the republicans winning the sought after cessation of persecution to nationalist/Irish/republican peoples and winning the rights to move above second class citizenship.
The other aspect , the secondary aim - the reunification of Ireland - well thats ongoing as we see - and the recent media outbursts from dup conf and all other whinges against it are counter productive - as the more these unionist/loyalists highlight and talk about it the more it is going to gather momentum and when the world economy changes, this will partition will be rectified! I laugh at the unionists/loyalist over reaction to the inevitible on here and in the media - its obv they are running scared !
they doth protest WAY too much !! 

as for this report - well if there was any truth in it, this chink would have been exploited long ago - so I cant see it being the truth, but it is irrelevent anyway.

Republicans won nothing. The objective of their 'long war' was the removal of the British presence from the north of Ireland. Instead, they ended up taking their places in a devolved British assembly at Stormont and accepting that unionist consent (provos used to call it the unionist veto) was necessary before a united Ireland could be achieved. It took them 3500 deaths before they realised that what John Hume had been saying all along was right.

[Nally Stand]

If it's double standards, it's just amazing how many Irishmen are on here happily ignoring the fact that Britain has also been applying the exact same double standards, and how these posters are happy to just criticise the families of these eight men instead.

[ThroughTheLaces]

If it's double standards, it's just amazing how many Irishmen are on here happily ignoring the fact that Britain has also been applying the exact same double standards, and how these posters are happy to just criticise the families of these eight men instead.

The thing is Nally, I personally would expect nothing less from the British. It's the apparent u turn that Sinn Fein have made on the matter that disappoints, yet doesn't surprise me. I'm more let down by the actions of SF in recent years than the Brits.

[mylestheslasher]

If it's double standards, it's just amazing how many Irishmen are on here happily ignoring the fact that Britain has also been applying the exact same double standards, and how these posters are happy to just criticise the families of these eight men instead.

If that is directed at me you are miles off. I know the shower of c***ts the brits are but I am a free thinker with no allegiance to any party. Soldiers in a war are at risk of being ambushed by the enemy and they should expect no quarter.

[Nally Stand]

If it's double standards, it's just amazing how many Irishmen are on here happily ignoring the fact that Britain has also been applying the exact same double standards, and how these posters are happy to just criticise the families of these eight men instead.

The thing is Nally, I personally would expect nothing less from the British. It's the apparent u turn that Sinn Fein have made on the matter that disappoints, yet doesn't surprise me. I'm more let down by the actions of SF in recent years than the Brits.

Your own opinion to which you are perfectly entitled. My own thoughts is that it is shameful that people here on this thread are happy to lambaste sf and more importantly, the families, over this whole thing; while blissfully refusing to criticise the british for the EXACT same apparent 'hypocrisy'. It seems the message the families would get from the majority of the posts by their fellow Irishmen on this thread would be, "You can't have it both ways.....But Britain can."

[Nally Stand]

If it's double standards, it's just amazing how many Irishmen are on here happily ignoring the fact that Britain has also been applying the exact same double standards, and how these posters are happy to just criticise the families of these eight men instead.

If that is directed at me you are miles off. I know the shower of c***ts the brits are but I am a free thinker with no allegiance to any party. Soldiers in a war are at risk of being ambushed by the enemy and they should expect no quarter.

Not directed at anyone in particular. I just find it sad that people are using this thread as an opportunity to criticise the families of the eight Volunteers.

[sammymaguire]

Alot of moral high brows apparent on this particular thread. Some folk just love Republican bashing, from an IRA attack where the SAS were lying in wait for those men who were basically lambs to the slaughter to the current Belfast Lord Mayor who'd have been born a year before this event. Only 25 years old and the Lord Mayor of a fairly large and certainly historical and high profile City who decided at the 11th hour not to hand out a British medal of honour to a British kid heading for a life in the forces... Shame on you pathetic folk who quite happily accept what those who have stood up and been counted in the face of Imperialism have given the rest of us. 

[ThroughTheLaces]

That's a valid post Nally, I suppose I may be even only commenting on one side because, as I said, I would expect nothing less from the Brits. I just feel somewhat frustrated with some of SF recent actions and decisions. I'm not using this as a chance to have a pop at them I just feel let down at times and wonder what we can expect next. For example one of the saddest things I have heard to date is Marty calling anyone using arms "traitors to Ireland".  I'm just afraid for where this could end up and how far it will go. Never mind where it has gone and ended up already 

[Maguire01]

My own thoughts is that it is shameful that people here on this thread are happy to lambaste sf and more importantly, the families, over this whole thing;

Not directed at anyone in particular. I just find it sad that people are using this thread as an opportunity to criticise the families of the eight Volunteers.

Where's all this abuse towards the families you're alluding to?

[lynchbhoy]

I think people will see from this post , the difference between sf and the IRA.

sf (or some of them like mr mcelduff). We all know it was a war. thats why republicans accepted as well as mourned those killed at loughall.
I didnt realise that some republican families had received compo - not something that is pursued by republican families that I have heard of at least.

I know people are unhappy that those killed at loughall were done in an ambush, but again its a war and that the way war goes.
if it wasnt a war then the authorities would have tried to arrest them prior to this point.
Again it disproves the loyalist/unionst claims (from some of their posters on this board) that it wasnt a war.
Also that the war ended up in stalemate as they generally do with the republicans winning the sought after cessation of persecution to nationalist/Irish/republican peoples and winning the rights to move above second class citizenship.
The other aspect , the secondary aim - the reunification of Ireland - well thats ongoing as we see - and the recent media outbursts from dup conf and all other whinges against it are counter productive - as the more these unionist/loyalists highlight and talk about it the more it is going to gather momentum and when the world economy changes, this will partition will be rectified! I laugh at the unionists/loyalist over reaction to the inevitible on here and in the media - its obv they are running scared !
they doth protest WAY too much !! 

as for this report - well if there was any truth in it, this chink would have been exploited long ago - so I cant see it being the truth, but it is irrelevent anyway.

Republicans won nothing. The objective of their 'long war' was the removal of the British presence from the north of Ireland. Instead, they ended up taking their places in a devolved British assembly at Stormont and accepting that unionist consent (provos used to call it the unionist veto) was necessary before a united Ireland could be achieved. It took them 3500 deaths before they realised that what John Hume had been saying all along was right.

Your opinion is noted, but incorrect if you are trying to paraphrase objectives from the republican perspective - something you obv know nothing about!
No point in discussing anything further to be honest as it seems you just don't know, understand or won't accept reality!

[Maguire01]

Some folk just love Republican bashing, from an IRA attack where the SAS were lying in wait for those men who were basically lambs to the slaughter

As opposed to their plan, which was, presumably, that their targets would be 'slaughtered'?

Only 25 years old and the Lord Mayor of a fairly large and certainly historical and high profile City who decided at the 11th hour not to hand out a British medal of honour to a British kid heading for a life in the forces...

She was in the Cadets. How do you know she was heading for a life in the forces? Do you know what proportion of Cadets who actually join the army?

Shame on you pathetic folk who quite happily accept what those who have stood up and been counted in the face of Imperialism have given the rest of us.

People will have different perceptions as to what has been achieved, how it has been achieved, and who has achieved it.

[sammymaguire]

Fcuk sake Maguire, you don't have to highlight my point even further with your indirect (or maybe just direct) West Brit / Anti Republican attitude.

It's my belief that if Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart were Catholics, they'd have been locked up within hours of their respective partners dying... But good honest living respectable Protestants, surely they could NEVER carry out such a heinous crime...