IRA "fired first" in 1987 attack in Loughgall

[Square Ball]

been listening to this on the news, maybe I am being stupid here but how do they know who fired first?is it from the testimony of the SAS members who were there?

[brokencrossbar1]

been listening to this on the news, maybe I am being stupid here but how do they know who fired first?is it from the testimony of the SAS members who were there?

True, its not like they will have any IRA men to give evidence.  It is a nonsense and is all part of the media war.  I would also question why the SAS were involved, were they just sitting there by the by?  It was a f**king set up simple as that.  There was a tout in the IRA in the area and they set up the gang. 

[ThroughTheLaces]

One thing i could never understand or agree with the IRA or Sinn Fein on. If you agree this was a war and 2 armies fought it then surely you have to accept that the British army won this particular duel. If  the IRA were the ones hiding in the ditch they would have done exactly the same as the SAS did. That is the risk of being a soldier is it not? What exactly are the IRA families unhappy about?

Good question, myles. I been wondering about the same thing myself.
If this was a war and and the combatants on both sides were solders, I don't think the question of who fired first is material.

It is when it's the RUC investigating it, who, along with the British Army, always denied they were in a war with the IRA. But I agree that the families cannot pick and choose when they believe it is a war. I'm sure there are many families of IRA volunteers killed that would point blank even consider claiming compensation.

[Maguire01]

Did the HET not announce earlier in the week that it is illegal under European law for the police to investigate themselves?

Was it not the SAS they would have been investigating?

[Maguire01]

One thing i could never understand or agree with the IRA or Sinn Fein on. If you agree this was a war and 2 armies fought it then surely you have to accept that the British army won this particular duel. If  the IRA were the ones hiding in the ditch they would have done exactly the same as the SAS did. That is the risk of being a soldier is it not? What exactly are the IRA families unhappy about?

Agreed. McElduff is tying himself in knots here. If killing off-duty RUC / Army men (and many other targets) was seen as legitimate by the IRA, then surely there can be no argument about getting shot down when you're actually out 'in the field'.

[seafoid]

1987 is so  long ago. If it was now the SAS would call in the drones like they do in Afghanistan.
Some operator in the home counties would click on his mouse and the 8 would be dead instantly. 

Like playing some computer game   

[ThroughTheLaces]

I think it comes down to the fact that SF have changed/lost/watered down that many of their principles they find it hard to remember where they stand on alot of matters.

[Square Ball]

been listening to this on the news, maybe I am being stupid here but how do they know who fired first?is it from the testimony of the SAS members who were there?

True, its not like they will have any IRA men to give evidence.  It is a nonsense and is all part of the media war.  I would also question why the SAS were involved, were they just sitting there by the by?  It was a f**king set up simple as that.  There was a tout in the IRA in the area and they set up the gang.

agree 100% BC1 about the set up, either a tout or the cell was infiltrated in some way.

[ThroughTheLaces]

1987 is so  long ago. If it was now the SAS would call in the drones like they do in Afghanistan.
Some operator in the home counties would click on his mouse and the 8 would be dead instantly. 

Like playing some computer game   

Go on...

[Arthur_Friend]

1987 is so  long ago. If it was now the SAS would call in the drones like they do in Afghanistan.
Some operator in the home counties would click on his mouse and the 8 would be dead instantly. 

Like playing some computer game   

Would never happen in a country populated by white English speaking people, there would be too much uproar.

[EC Unique]

been listening to this on the news, maybe I am being stupid here but how do they know who fired first?is it from the testimony of the SAS members who were there?

True, its not like they will have any IRA men to give evidence.  It is a nonsense and is all part of the media war.  I would also question why the SAS were involved, were they just sitting there by the by?  It was a f**king set up simple as that.  There was a tout in the IRA in the area and they set up the gang.

As far as I remember there were some some lads that got away that night, they will know the truth but going public with it is a different matter.

[Square Ball]

Cant remember if there was any that got away but I dont think so. in the fog or war it would be impossible to say who shot first imho, unless of course there is conclusive evidence that we dont know about.

[Tonto]

If mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport, no country on Earth could compete with the Provisionals and their supporters.

Was it a war as PSF continually tell us?  If so, people get killed in war and the whole 'who fired first' question is totally and utterly irrelevant.

Was is not a war as McElduff seems to be implying?  If it wasn't, the IRA and all of their deeds were criminal.

You can't have it both ways.

[ThroughTheLaces]

If mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport, no country on Earth could compete with the Provisionals and their supporters.

Was it a war as PSF continually tell us?  If so, people get killed in war and the whole 'who fired first' question is totally and utterly irrelevant.

Was is not a war as McElduff seems to be implying?  If it wasn't, the IRA and all of their deeds were criminal.

You can't have it both ways.

Totally agree with this. And as I said, SF has changed direction that much and that many times in recent years that it was inevitable that contradictions would arise.

[Arthur_Friend]

If mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport, no country on Earth could compete with the Provisionals and their supporters.

Was it a war as PSF continually tell us?  If so, people get killed in war and the whole 'who fired first' question is totally and utterly irrelevant.

Was is not a war as McElduff seems to be implying?  If it wasn't, the IRA and all of their deeds were criminal.

You can't have it both ways.

Have to agree however the British are easily as guilty, i.e. shoot to kill (fighting a war) vs. no special status for prisoners (not fighting a war).

They can't have it both ways either.