Cheeky Dublin County Board are to seek “provincial status”

[ogshead]

the parish rule keeps things in check in most counties but can you apply it in Dublin city. ?

No team from any part of the country should be allowed enter the AI club championship with more than 4 players who played with another club previously.

Crossmaglen wouldnt last long since they hoover up all the underage players in Armagh.

On what do you base that statement?

[thejuice]

Everyone wins if Dublin strategic plan a success

SEÁN MORAN

ON GAELIC GAMES: IT WAS Noel Whelan of this parish, who made the point while talking to Marian Finucane on RTÉ radio at the weekend. In setting the scene for his recently- published book on Fianna Fáil's travails, Whelan said that national institutions can't assume they'll survive just because they always have.

Citing the Irish Press Group, he said a quarter of a century ago people would have thought you mad had you forecast its newspaper titles would be gone within 10 years. Similarly, people would have laughed had you said at the same time that the Catholic church with its crowded pews would see hundreds in attendance fall to dozens.

"National institutions don't necessarily survive as national institutions," he continued, "particularly in volatile times. The only national institution – and perhaps it's an analogy for Fianna Fáil – apart from

RTÉ perhaps to successfully chart the demographics of modern Ireland and the arrival of modern broadcast media is the GAA. It still manages to be organised, parish-based and yet glamorous, sophisticated and dramatic in television terms."

The GAA's evolution from its beginnings as part of the pan-nationalist revival of the late 19th century has seen it survive and thrive in a manner not achieved to anything like the same extent by its original cultural associates in the Irish language movement and the national theatre, the Abbey. That ability to adapt to changing circumstances isn't entirely serendipitous and, at present, the battle to remain relevant is being waged as the association pursues the precepts of the GAA's Strategic Vision and Action Plan 2009-2015.

Dublin entered the arena – belatedly – on Monday with the county's strategic plan for 2011-17, an extensive trawl through the issues facing the capital and a timetable for the delivery of proposed solutions. That, however, is the easy part and it will be the meeting of deadlines for the resolution of problems and the hitting of development targets, which will determine the success of the plan.

Privately, Croke Park officials accept meeting those targets nationally has been an uneven process. As usual, the most efficiently performing province is Ulster. That's for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there has been a culture of county development plans and delivery – with specialist consultants volunteering expertise to help counties – even before the national strategy was launched.

Secondly, the abundance of state development grants that the Ulster Council has availed of down the years has also entailed the guaranteeing of administrative structures before funding is released. As a result, Ulster units have better established levels of governance and a greater familiarity with the demands of strategic planning. Ulster is doing excellent work in reaching across the community barriers – as was illustrated at last weekend's Central Council meeting in a presentation by the Ulster Council – but at its core it has a loyal and committed base.

From a Dublin perspective, the world is of course very different. There may be the advantage of a massive population, but it has never been a wholly attentive audience and needs constant cultivation in the face of major competition from other sports and apathy.

To that extent Unleashing the Blue Wave – A Strategy for Dublin GAA 2011-2017 ticks all the right boxes – reviewing the club demographics in a county where some clubs have the catchment of counties, maximising participation outside of the traditional competitive structures, prioritising the recruitment of volunteers, devising workable structures to accommodate the growing incidence of dual players, developing a medium-capacity stadium, a startlingly ambitious schedule of All-Ireland title targets and high-register commercial aspirations.

There are also ideas that have already been promoted in recent years by Dublin CEO John Costello in his reports to annual conventions – the idea of the county being accorded provincial status for funding purposes and with that a place on the GAA's management committee and availing of the Nama land bank to acquire sites for development.

All proposals are linked to implementation timetables and it is in the realising of these targets that the whole plan will ultimately be judged. But Dublin has, in the painstaking elevation of its status in the hurling world, demonstrated an ability to meet development targets – the hurling blueprint from 10 years ago – over a sustained period.

The most awkward question that arises centres not on failure, but on success. What if Dublin are successful in their targets? Already, there have been rumblings that the county is beginning to exploit its resources to a far more telling extent than in previous years but such concerns are probably premature.

Although reaching four All-Ireland finals in September was an impressive vindication of all the under-age work done in games development, it has to be remembered Dublin managed to win just one. This year Galway won three elite All-Ireland titles and yet there's no growing apprehension that the county is about to take over the world.

But if Dublin start hitting targets like an All-Ireland football title every three years and a hurling equivalent every five years plus assorted under-age achievements, how will counties view the flow of enhanced funds into the capital and the development of Dublin GAA into the "biggest brand in the country"?

Dublin can justifiably point to the fact Kerry have won that many football All-Irelands since their first success over 100 years ago whereas Kilkenny, Cork and Tipperary have all exceeded that strike rate in hurling since the foundation of the GAA, but the sight of the country's most populous county taking a large slice of financial resources and turning it into silverware would raise hackles.

Even the interpretation of Dublin as an individual brand ignores the national context – something the GAA addressed in the Amateur Status report of 1997, which suggested national sponsorship deals to help weaker counties avail of revenues they couldn't access on their own. Unsurprisingly Dublin and Cork weren't too keen on that.

This year has been a good one for Dublin GAA in the marketing arena. The Spring Series under lights at Croke Park gave the footballers an average league attendance of 30,000. That will be repeated next season with the added advantage of the Sam Maguire in the city. But so much depends on that status. Dublin will need the type of success enjoyed over the past two years to sustain big crowds for league fixtures and although Kerry have shown the way in that respect Dublin's actual attainment for most of GAA history is closer to one All-Ireland every 10 years.

So it's pointless getting too worked up about the problems of success before they arise. In the meantime the ambition and confidence of the strategic plan are to be applauded because if the GAA can make further significant inroads into the country's biggest urban environment it's good news for

Still don't see how "we all win" from that? Maybe he's not talking about the same everybody I'm thinking of.

[fearglasmor]

Eugene McGee also wrote in todays indo in support of Dublins wave.  He finished the piece with a line to the effect that if Dublins plans succeed then the GAA as a whole will benefit. Nowhere in his piece does he explain how this benefit will accrue so I dropped him an email asking him if he could specifiy exactly how other units of the GAA would gain from Dublins plans and maybe use his former charges in Offaly as an example.  Personally I cant see it.

[sheamy]

This whole thing is ridiculous. Having journalists within the Dublin media bubble support it is just another example of the blind leading the blind.

Do Dublin GAA not already enjoy massive benefits over the rest of us?

Huge population making it attractive to mutli million euro deals with e.g. vodafone
6 million euro of sports council money
All championship games at home
DCU facilities and expertise

etc etc. Now I wish the Dubs all the best and it's great to see any county do well but the GAA need to catch a grip here. If they are intent on pouring resources into Dublin and not other large urban populations there this will only be divisive.

Moran mentioned marketing. Marketing is nothing but a temporary skin put over any product. If the product isn't there it's a waste of time and money. The core of the GAA are clubs. If there is a strong volunteer culture with a community spirit then clubs and the GAA in the county will flourish. That's already the case in many parts of Dublin.

This kind of crap is just frightening in its double speak from the leader of the ever growing band of paid administrators:

Páraic Duffy, Árd Stiúrthóir
"It is a simple statistical fact that Dublin constitutes, in terms of population catchment area, the single largest county unit in the Association, and is, therefore, a region in which the health of the GAA has a profound impact on the wider health of the Association."

If Dublin fell into the sea would the GAA in Tyrone, Kerry and Galway not be much as it is now??

"One indication of the importance of a successful GAA in Dublin at a national level is visible in the recent success of both the senior county football and hurling teams."

Not even sure this sentence makes any logical sense.

"Both teams, through winning the All Ireland Senior Football championship and National Hurling League, have generated excellent coverage for the Association in national media and it is an indisputable fact that successful Dublin county teams create an excitement and anticipation that no other county can match. Such coverage is crucial – if the GAA does not get these column inches and this broadcast time, they will surely go to other sports, and will act as promotional activity for sports with which the GAA is in competition in Dublin." 

Ah, so it's all about getting in the paper. Bollocks. Column inches in the Irish Times have zero correlation with a 4 year old starting to play Gaelic Games. See above remarks on marketing. Lazy analysis to keep the dubs filling croker. That's all that matters folks. Money.

[INDIANA]

Of course it benefits everybody. At 4m per game in Croke Park per full house when Dublin are there how do the other Leinster counties not benefit? Laois and a few others may hate us but I bet they havent refused any income generated on the back of this.

As for lazy analysis. Its called profile, profile, profile. Having a strong Dublin GAA scene helps promote the game to the largest urban centre in the country and beyond. It would be a disaster to have 1m people all following other codes because the GAA wasn't strong in Dublin.

And it would have a knock on effect elsewhere. It would allow other codes to dominate revenue wise and ensure the IRFU and the FAI had a free run of the city. They could then really focus on spreading to other counties where they dont have a prescence because they wouldnt have to worry about competing against the GAA in Dublin.

If people in Tyrone and elsewhere are stupid enough to think that rugby and soccer arent capable to setting up shop in their counties in a serious manner then they are away with the fairies.

Vodafone's sponsorship has ensured the likes of Bernard Brogan are plastered across the tv screens and billboards 12 months of the year. You mean to tell me no young lad in other counties doesnt have him as one of their favourite players? How is that not promoting the game elsewhere.

Its incredible how narrow minded some are here. As regards DCU and facilities as a stick to beat us with- best laugh I've had in a while. What about UUJ, UL, Queens etc. Tyrone's centre of excellence etc. I suppose we should shut all those down too because they have an unfair advantage.


And dont give me this crap about tradition. Kids will play the most popular sports.

[screenexile]

And if Dublin get provincial status do you think they'll be redistributing the €4m throughout Leinster . . . not a mission!

I have no problem with Dublin getting a high profile and I agree with you that it helps the GAA in an overall sense. My bug bear is that you already have infinitely more resources than the rest of Ireland so why in God's name do you need provincial status to give you EVEN MORE money and resources?!

I couldn't give a shite about DCU, that's irrelevant but give the DCB provincial status and an unlimited budget and the whole system becomes uncompetitive. We already have a flawed system where half the Country want to play their GAA in Dublin and with Dublin getting provincial status why would anyone want to travel home to play for their own club when it is a more attractive concept to play for Dublin.

[fearglasmor]

As the saying goes "they want jam on their egg"  Provincial status for finances, permanent representation not afforded to any other county.....but at the same time absolutely no way will they consider fielding more than one team.  As said below, high profile great,  they can be to GAA what Man U  are to English soccer. But its hard enough to compete with naturally occurring inequalities without institutionalising a greater inequality.  Is it a case of some pigs being more equal than others ?

And if Dublin get provincial status do you think they'll be redistributing the €4m throughout Leinster . . . not a mission!

I have no problem with Dublin getting a high profile and I agree with you that it helps the GAA in an overall sense. My bug bear is that you already have infinitely more resources than the rest of Ireland so why in God's name do you need provincial status to give you EVEN MORE money and resources?!

I couldn't give a shite about DCU, that's irrelevant but give the DCB provincial status and an unlimited budget and the whole system becomes uncompetitive. We already have a flawed system where half the Country want to play their GAA in Dublin and with Dublin getting provincial status why would anyone want to travel home to play for their own club when it is a more attractive concept to play for Dublin.

[AhJaysusRef]

Posted by: INDIANA
Insert Quote
Of course it benefits everybody. At 4m per game in Croke Park per full house when Dublin are there how do the other Leinster counties not benefit? Laois and a few others may hate us but I bet they havent refused any income generated on the back of this.

As for lazy analysis. Its called profile, profile, profile. Having a strong Dublin GAA scene helps promote the game to the largest urban centre in the country and beyond. It would be a disaster to have 1m people all following other codes because the GAA wasn't strong in Dublin.

And it would have a knock on effect elsewhere. It would allow other codes to dominate revenue wise and ensure the IRFU and the FAI had a free run of the city. They could then really focus on spreading to other counties where they dont have a prescence because they wouldnt have to worry about competing against the GAA in Dublin.

If people in Tyrone and elsewhere are stupid enough to think that rugby and soccer arent capable to setting up shop in their counties in a serious manner then they are away with the fairies.

Vodafone's sponsorship has ensured the likes of Bernard Brogan are plastered across the tv screens and billboards 12 months of the year. You mean to tell me no young lad in other counties doesnt have him as one of their favourite players? How is that not promoting the game elsewhere.

Its incredible how narrow minded some are here. As regards DCU and facilities as a stick to beat us with- best laugh I've had in a while. What about UUJ, UL, Queens etc. Tyrone's centre of excellence etc. I suppose we should shut all those down too because they have an unfair advantage.


And dont give me this crap about tradition. Kids will play the most popular sports.

You still have not addressed your previous statement that Crossmaglen hoover up all the young players in Armagh? I am interested in finding out what players on their present panel that were poached from other clubs?

[sheamy]

Of course it benefits everybody. At 4m per game in Croke Park per full house when Dublin are there how do the other Leinster counties not benefit? Laois and a few others may hate us but I bet they havent refused any income generated on the back of this.

As for lazy analysis. Its called profile, profile, profile. Having a strong Dublin GAA scene helps promote the game to the largest urban centre in the country and beyond. It would be a disaster to have 1m people all following other codes because the GAA wasn't strong in Dublin.

And it would have a knock on effect elsewhere. It would allow other codes to dominate revenue wise and ensure the IRFU and the FAI had a free run of the city. They could then really focus on spreading to other counties where they dont have a prescence because they wouldnt have to worry about competing against the GAA in Dublin.

If people in Tyrone and elsewhere are stupid enough to think that rugby and soccer arent capable to setting up shop in their counties in a serious manner then they are away with the fairies.

Vodafone's sponsorship has ensured the likes of Bernard Brogan are plastered across the tv screens and billboards 12 months of the year. You mean to tell me no young lad in other counties doesnt have him as one of their favourite players? How is that not promoting the game elsewhere.

Its incredible how narrow minded some are here. As regards DCU and facilities as a stick to beat us with- best laugh I've had in a while. What about UUJ, UL, Queens etc. Tyrone's centre of excellence etc. I suppose we should shut all those down too because they have an unfair advantage.


And dont give me this crap about tradition. Kids will play the most popular sports.

If Dublin want provincial status, let them enter multiple teams like any other province. Until then, they should catch themselves on. They want to be one county for the purposes of fielding a team but a province for the purposes of funding. Self-interest. Nothing more.

[sheamy]

http://eircomsports.eircom.net/News/news/gaa/Ewan-MacKenna-blog-Blue-wave.aspx

You might be surprised to hear this, but in theory I'm all for Dublin getting the funding of a provincial council. That's right. Let them have as much money as the other 11 counties in Leinster combined. Let them have a fifth of GAA funding all to themselves. It's what they've called for in 'Unleashing The Blue Wave', their strategy document for Gaelic games in the county from now until 2017, and good on them. Sure, they already get far more than anyone else out of sponsorship, but that is down to demographics, economics and capitalism at their most basic. And, as they point out in their new document, "Dublin's population of 1.27 million people comprises of 20 per cent of the 32-county population and over 28 per cent on a 26-county basis. Dublin GAA is responsible for introducing Gaelic games to almost 30 per cent of the population of the 26 counties".

In line with their request for the status of a province, they have other demands too. They want a permanent member on the GAA's most important body, the Management Committee, and they want a similar appointment on the executive of the Leinster Council on the basis that they feel the needs of Dublin require constant attention because of the numbers involved from top to bottom. And still there is more that they are calling for. They also want a higher proportion of gate receipts because they are the ones providing the fans and the admission fees and they have by far the largest framework to support.

What they have set out is ambitious, and quite possibly revolutionary, but there is a caveat. And herein lies the rub. As so often is repeated through the above document, what's good for Dublin is good for the GAA. That's just fine as long as they actually believe and act on that, even when it doesn't suit them and it doesn't make them stronger. Indeed if Dublin wants to be treated as a province for the good of the game, then by extension let them act as a province for the good of the game too.

No one has ever claimed that the GAA is fair. The basic premise of a nationalist sporting organisation wasn't on King John's mind when he visited this island in 1210. Instead the man whom the BBC voted the 13th century's worst Briton came up with a county system so administration would become easier. Eight-hundred-and-one years later and his borders have already given Dublin a massive advantage in a sport where intercounty transfers rarely happen, and rightly so. In fact according to the most recent census, they have 40 times as many people as Leitrim within their borders and they have more than twice as many people as the next most populous county, namely Antrim, who can exclude half of their inhabitants from Gaelic games participation for political reasons.

Of course a lot of those living in Dublin play with clubs elsewhere but they choose to ignore that point when providing population figures in support of their argument and therefore, for the sake of fairness, should also ignore it here. And of course a lot of those living in Dublin aren't Irish, but proportionately there are as many immigrants elsewhere.

Dublin may claim that they need all their strategic demands to be granted because they are looking after and at the most basic unit of Gaelic games and looking out for each and every member of the association. However they are conveniently ignoring the intercounty scene when it suits them. Look at it this way, have they ever asked themselves this: if the numbers they support are equal to vast swathes of the country, then why, just like those vast swathes, don't they field several teams in intercounty competition? They already have numerous county councils.

If Dublin are to get their demands seceded to, they set out a target of a senior football title every three years, a senior hurling title every five years, a minor football and hurling title every three years and an under-21 football and hurling title every five years. Forgive us on this one, but did we miss out on the committee that decided to change the Gaelic games from a competitive sport into a monopoly. Of course those in Dublin who came up with the document know what they are trying to do, not just in promoting the game at lower levels, but dominating the game at higher levels. The rest of the country better hope that the GAA can see through their positive spin to what would happen if a one-team Dublin had provincial rights.

And that's the crux of the matter. Dublin have masked the idea of dominance in some windy words about the good of the game when the truth is, they – just like every other county – only care about their own success. There's nothing wrong in that so long as the GAA realise the effects. Instead of falling for Dublin's demands, they should offer them a choice. Be a province and field multiple teams like a province or don't be a province and don't ask for an extra advantage over everyone else when they already have a clear lead before a ball or sliotar is ever thrown in.

And if they offered them that choice, we believe we know the answer, because also contained in 'Unleashing The Blue Wave' is the following: "The challenge of nurturing and safeguarding Dublin's identity and its growth ambition is one that must be met by people whose vision and passion is, as the American Troubadour put it, 'Tangled Up in Blue'. Ambition must be sanity checked and guided by the principles of county identity. Our flagship teams – our senior footballers and hurlers – must never be divided."

In essence Dublin want to be a county when it suits them and they want to be a province when it suits them. Which in turn would create a blue tsunami, not a blue wave. That's why their demands are fine and supportable in theory, but leave the pages of their plan for reality and you'll see only self-gain. And very little that is good for the game.

Ewan MacKenna was a sports writer with the now defunct Sunday Tribune and now contributes to the Irish Examiner. He was also ghost writer of 'The Gambler: Oisín McConville's Story' and 'Darragh: My Story' and has recently launched 'Kenny Egan: My Story'.

[INDIANA]

Sorry sheamy but you cant put anything forward written by him in relation to Dublin.

Mc Kenna was long been found out (and caught out on several occasions) as a WUM in relation to Dublin.

So i wouldnt even grace that article by reading it.

[fearglasmor]

Sorry sheamy but you cant put anything forward written by him in relation to Dublin.

Mc Kenna was long been found out (and caught out on several occasions) as a WUM in relation to Dublin.

So i wouldnt even grace that article by reading it.

Jayz Indiana, thats an enlightened approach. 

[GalwayBayBoy]

Unleashing the blue wave.

Was that not once a tagline for a popular brand of toilet bleach?

[Hardy]

Well they are clean round the bend.

[muppet]

Well they are clean round the bend.

Jacks humor.