Defensive tactics nothing new-Jim done it within the rules.

[samwin08]

Jim devised a defensive game plan with BRAIN not brawn, within the rules, unlike most of the great , cute ,defensive game plans over the years , a few of which I will remind you off– Kingdom's Tadgh Kennelly  2009 All –Ireland final, ( some of the same pundits who shamefully gave this man an All star are now the same people not too happy with Gentle Jim) 1996 All Ireland Semi final - Meath  Martin O Connell & Peter Canavan's ankle collide , ( remember the final and Mc Hale incident) do I recall Francie and Mickey Linden in  a big  match , Dublin & the Kingdoms Mickey Ned O Sullivan  in that great era of football -1976? dare I mention the Meath Lyons defensive system v Donegal 1990 was it, oh and I nearly forget Derry defensive tactics, the great Offally teams were never found wanting or Cork, didn't Tony Davis or should it be Nial Cahalane have a defensive plan, Dublin's Barry Cahill and his tackle on Karl Lacey, which was the most successful defensive tactic last Sunday. Yes all those great plans involved breaking the rules. Jim done it legit and like all tactics, its great when you win, but when you lose.
If you think of a county who won the All Ireland with out these defensive plans before Armageddon let me know. Galway, Down and Donegal are the only counties which come to mind.

[AZOffaly]

I think you are mixing up physicality with defensive strategies. I'm not one of those who cry about teams setting up defensively, I believe it's a managers responsibility to give his team the best chance to win, within the rules.

I didn't like the overtly cynical stuff that went on more than the positions on the field they took up.

I think those old teams you mention had their share of hatchet men, but they never set up as defensively as Dongal do.

[Nally Stand]

Jim devised a defensive game plan with BRAIN not brawn, within the rules, unlike most of the great , cute ,defensive game plans over the years , a few of which I will remind you off– Kingdom's Tadgh Kennelly  2009 All –Ireland final, ( some of the same pundits who shamefully gave this man an All star are now the same people not too happy with Gentle Jim) 1996 All Ireland Semi final - Meath  Martin O Connell & Peter Canavan's ankle collide , ( remember the final and Mc Hale incident) do I recall Francie and Mickey Linden in  a big  match , Dublin & the Kingdoms Mickey Ned O Sullivan  in that great era of football -1976? dare I mention the Meath Lyons defensive system v Donegal 1990 was it, oh and I nearly forget Derry defensive tactics, the great Offally teams were never found wanting or Cork, didn't Tony Davis or should it be Nial Cahalane have a defensive plan, Dublin's Barry Cahill and his tackle on Karl Lacey, which was the most successful defensive tactic last Sunday. Yes all those great plans involved breaking the rules. Jim done it legit and like all tactics, its great when you win, but when you lose.
If you think of a county who won the All Ireland with out these defensive plans before Armageddon let me know. Galway, Down and Donegal are the only counties which come to mind.

Joey Mc would probably disagree with you on that one:

49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub, takes out Joe on 51mins. Four minutes later, McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion and McLoone gets a yellow carded for striking before being taken off again on 61 mins.

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa/new-order-in-ulster-as-donegal-deliver-159143.html
"Crucially Tyrone's loss of full-back Joe McMahon, who had given an accomplished performance on his return from a recent jaw injury before leaving the pitch concussed after a late tackle from Leo McLoone after 50 minutes, changed the game.
It took just seven minutes for Tyrone to pay the price. Donegal strung together a sublime move, with Colm McFadden finding the net from the spot McMahon had dominated."

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Blogs/Ger-McCarthy/2011/June/Whod-Be-A-Referee-/
"Tyrone's shock Ulster semi final defeat to Donegal was spoiled by an off the ball concussion to full-back Joe McMahon....."Joe McMahon came off concussed and he probably didn't do it to himself," said an obviously disappointed Harte in his post match interview."

[Denn Forever]

I don't think anyone is saying that he broke any rules. 

We all remember the old line that defense starts in the forwards.

The problem I would have with it is that is boring to watch and I would imagine boring to play.  I admire the dedication and athleticism it requires but I wouldn't want to watch much of it.

[lynchbhoy]

maybe these teams set out to be more defensive through a bit of 'dirt' etc as part of their 'systems'ok, but cynicism was part of all these teams you mention(and more) including this years Donegal.

btw- when were Derry 'Defensive'?Are you referring to 1993 when the halfforwards dropped back o the half back line, and the half backs in return salied up the field to get the scores (confusing their markers into the bargain).
I wish we were fecking defensive!

[J70]

Jim devised a defensive game plan with BRAIN not brawn, within the rules, unlike most of the great , cute ,defensive game plans over the years , a few of which I will remind you off– Kingdom's Tadgh Kennelly  2009 All –Ireland final, ( some of the same pundits who shamefully gave this man an All star are now the same people not too happy with Gentle Jim) 1996 All Ireland Semi final - Meath  Martin O Connell & Peter Canavan's ankle collide , ( remember the final and Mc Hale incident) do I recall Francie and Mickey Linden in  a big  match , Dublin & the Kingdoms Mickey Ned O Sullivan  in that great era of football -1976? dare I mention the Meath Lyons defensive system v Donegal 1990 was it, oh and I nearly forget Derry defensive tactics, the great Offally teams were never found wanting or Cork, didn't Tony Davis or should it be Nial Cahalane have a defensive plan, Dublin's Barry Cahill and his tackle on Karl Lacey, which was the most successful defensive tactic last Sunday. Yes all those great plans involved breaking the rules. Jim done it legit and like all tactics, its great when you win, but when you lose.
If you think of a county who won the All Ireland with out these defensive plans before Armageddon let me know. Galway, Down and Donegal are the only counties which come to mind.

Joey Mc would probably disagree with you on that one:

49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub, takes out Joe on 51mins. Four minutes later, McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion and McLoone gets a yellow carded for striking before being taken off again on 61 mins.

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa/new-order-in-ulster-as-donegal-deliver-159143.html
"Crucially Tyrone's loss of full-back Joe McMahon, who had given an accomplished performance on his return from a recent jaw injury before leaving the pitch concussed after a late tackle from Leo McLoone after 50 minutes, changed the game.
It took just seven minutes for Tyrone to pay the price. Donegal strung together a sublime move, with Colm McFadden finding the net from the spot McMahon had dominated."

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Blogs/Ger-McCarthy/2011/June/Whod-Be-A-Referee-/
"Tyrone's shock Ulster semi final defeat to Donegal was spoiled by an off the ball concussion to full-back Joe McMahon....."Joe McMahon came off concussed and he probably didn't do it to himself," said an obviously disappointed Harte in his post match interview."

It was a bad tackle and McLoone was lucky not to get sent off. That doesn't mean he was sent on the pitch to intentionally injure another player, quite possibly seriously.  Especially when he's one of your most promising young players who excelled in last year's U-21s and this year's league games and someone you want back in the first team as soon as possible.

[bcarrier]

The men behind the ball is one thing this is another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaI1PDU2xw

Nothing to be proud of in that.

[INDIANA]

Jim devised a defensive game plan with BRAIN not brawn, within the rules, unlike most of the great , cute ,defensive game plans over the years , a few of which I will remind you off– Kingdom's Tadgh Kennelly  2009 All –Ireland final, ( some of the same pundits who shamefully gave this man an All star are now the same people not too happy with Gentle Jim) 1996 All Ireland Semi final - Meath  Martin O Connell & Peter Canavan's ankle collide , ( remember the final and Mc Hale incident) do I recall Francie and Mickey Linden in  a big  match , Dublin & the Kingdoms Mickey Ned O Sullivan  in that great era of football -1976? dare I mention the Meath Lyons defensive system v Donegal 1990 was it, oh and I nearly forget Derry defensive tactics, the great Offally teams were never found wanting or Cork, didn't Tony Davis or should it be Nial Cahalane have a defensive plan, Dublin's Barry Cahill and his tackle on Karl Lacey, which was the most successful defensive tactic last Sunday. Yes all those great plans involved breaking the rules. Jim done it legit and like all tactics, its great when you win, but when you lose.
If you think of a county who won the All Ireland with out these defensive plans before Armageddon let me know. Galway, Down and Donegal are the only counties which come to mind.

enjoy the game-lplan because it was proven not to work. Thankfully the game has been saved.

[imtommygunn]

It could have went either way - nothing was proven.

Dublin were *slightly* better than Donegal on the day. McFadden nets and Dublin could have been blown away. Ref gives a free or two differently in last ten minutes and Donegal win too.

That doesn't prove the system doesn't work - it proved on that given day it fell a  bit short. Had Donegal been blown out of the water yes it would have been proven - they weren't.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

It was a bad tackle and McLoone was lucky not to get sent off.

Except that it wasn't even a 'tackle' - they were both going for the ball, where Mc Loone struck out in a direction other than that in which the ball was travelling, and late with it.

[BarryBreensBandage]

Jim devised a defensive game plan with BRAIN not brawn, within the rules, unlike most of the great , cute ,defensive game plans over the years , a few of which I will remind you off– Kingdom's Tadgh Kennelly  2009 All –Ireland final, ( some of the same pundits who shamefully gave this man an All star are now the same people not too happy with Gentle Jim) 1996 All Ireland Semi final - Meath  Martin O Connell & Peter Canavan's ankle collide , ( remember the final and Mc Hale incident) do I recall Francie and Mickey Linden in  a big  match , Dublin & the Kingdoms Mickey Ned O Sullivan  in that great era of football -1976? dare I mention the Meath Lyons defensive system v Donegal 1990 was it, oh and I nearly forget Derry defensive tactics, the great Offally teams were never found wanting or Cork, didn't Tony Davis or should it be Nial Cahalane have a defensive plan, Dublin's Barry Cahill and his tackle on Karl Lacey, which was the most successful defensive tactic last Sunday. Yes all those great plans involved breaking the rules. Jim done it legit and like all tactics, its great when you win, but when you lose.
If you think of a county who won the All Ireland with out these defensive plans before Armageddon let me know. Galway, Down and Donegal are the only counties which come to mind.

enjoy the game-lplan because it was proven not to work. Thankfully the game has been saved.

Saved from what exactly, Indiana? Many of your posts allude to the notion that the future of Gaelic football hinged on this one single game and its outcome.

Donegal tried something different, McGuinness knew their limitations, and set up his team so they would not get beat out of Ulster again, never mind Croke Park.

Football evolves, teams come up with different ideas. For me Donegal's strength was their tackling and man to man marking. Dublin, not too far behind on defensive genius, won the day because certain individuals held their nerve.

So, in a way, the strategy that Donegal brought to the table has been beaten in its first outing (after a League title and Ulster title mind you)

If that game plan worked and had won them an All Ireland, there would be another team, probably Kerry, who would have taken that plan and improved it.

In a way, I think anyway, this defensive gameplan will force coaches to think about their attacking play and come up with more inventive ways of scoring - and not lump the ball into the big man for forwards to gather the spills and score.

An exciting time ahead, was it not this sort of defensive play in soccer that has resulted in the formation of a team like Barcelona? Who have taken soccer to another level?

If you look at Rugby, Soccer, Gaelic, in this day and age, the teams that succeed are the ones that gain/retain possession, and take advantage of that possession.
Both teams on Sunday forgot about the scoring part of it.

[Nally Stand]

Jim devised a defensive game plan with BRAIN not brawn, within the rules, unlike most of the great , cute ,defensive game plans over the years , a few of which I will remind you off– Kingdom's Tadgh Kennelly  2009 All –Ireland final, ( some of the same pundits who shamefully gave this man an All star are now the same people not too happy with Gentle Jim) 1996 All Ireland Semi final - Meath  Martin O Connell & Peter Canavan's ankle collide , ( remember the final and Mc Hale incident) do I recall Francie and Mickey Linden in  a big  match , Dublin & the Kingdoms Mickey Ned O Sullivan  in that great era of football -1976? dare I mention the Meath Lyons defensive system v Donegal 1990 was it, oh and I nearly forget Derry defensive tactics, the great Offally teams were never found wanting or Cork, didn't Tony Davis or should it be Nial Cahalane have a defensive plan, Dublin's Barry Cahill and his tackle on Karl Lacey, which was the most successful defensive tactic last Sunday. Yes all those great plans involved breaking the rules. Jim done it legit and like all tactics, its great when you win, but when you lose.
If you think of a county who won the All Ireland with out these defensive plans before Armageddon let me know. Galway, Down and Donegal are the only counties which come to mind.

Joey Mc would probably disagree with you on that one:

49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub, takes out Joe on 51mins. Four minutes later, McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion and McLoone gets a yellow carded for striking before being taken off again on 61 mins.

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa/new-order-in-ulster-as-donegal-deliver-159143.html
"Crucially Tyrone's loss of full-back Joe McMahon, who had given an accomplished performance on his return from a recent jaw injury before leaving the pitch concussed after a late tackle from Leo McLoone after 50 minutes, changed the game.
It took just seven minutes for Tyrone to pay the price. Donegal strung together a sublime move, with Colm McFadden finding the net from the spot McMahon had dominated."

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Blogs/Ger-McCarthy/2011/June/Whod-Be-A-Referee-/
"Tyrone's shock Ulster semi final defeat to Donegal was spoiled by an off the ball concussion to full-back Joe McMahon....."Joe McMahon came off concussed and he probably didn't do it to himself," said an obviously disappointed Harte in his post match interview."

It was a bad tackle and McLoone was lucky not to get sent off. That doesn't mean he was sent on the pitch to intentionally injure another player, quite possibly seriously.  Especially when he's one of your most promising young players who excelled in last year's U-21s and this year's league games and someone you want back in the first team as soon as possible.

I was told a story from two people independently from other, several days apart, who were both close behind the Donegal dugout and who both overheard a certain statement which would question that.

[ck]

Jim devised a defensive game plan with BRAIN not brawn, within the rules, unlike most of the great , cute ,defensive game plans over the years , a few of which I will remind you off– Kingdom's Tadgh Kennelly  2009 All –Ireland final, ( some of the same pundits who shamefully gave this man an All star are now the same people not too happy with Gentle Jim) 1996 All Ireland Semi final - Meath  Martin O Connell & Peter Canavan's ankle collide , ( remember the final and Mc Hale incident) do I recall Francie and Mickey Linden in  a big  match , Dublin & the Kingdoms Mickey Ned O Sullivan  in that great era of football -1976? dare I mention the Meath Lyons defensive system v Donegal 1990 was it, oh and I nearly forget Derry defensive tactics, the great Offally teams were never found wanting or Cork, didn't Tony Davis or should it be Nial Cahalane have a defensive plan, Dublin's Barry Cahill and his tackle on Karl Lacey, which was the most successful defensive tactic last Sunday. Yes all those great plans involved breaking the rules. Jim done it legit and like all tactics, its great when you win, but when you lose.
If you think of a county who won the All Ireland with out these defensive plans before Armageddon let me know. Galway, Down and Donegal are the only counties which come to mind.

Joey Mc would probably disagree with you on that one:

49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub, takes out Joe on 51mins. Four minutes later, McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion and McLoone gets a yellow carded for striking before being taken off again on 61 mins.

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa/new-order-in-ulster-as-donegal-deliver-159143.html
"Crucially Tyrone's loss of full-back Joe McMahon, who had given an accomplished performance on his return from a recent jaw injury before leaving the pitch concussed after a late tackle from Leo McLoone after 50 minutes, changed the game.
It took just seven minutes for Tyrone to pay the price. Donegal strung together a sublime move, with Colm McFadden finding the net from the spot McMahon had dominated."

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Blogs/Ger-McCarthy/2011/June/Whod-Be-A-Referee-/
"Tyrone's shock Ulster semi final defeat to Donegal was spoiled by an off the ball concussion to full-back Joe McMahon....."Joe McMahon came off concussed and he probably didn't do it to himself," said an obviously disappointed Harte in his post match interview."

It was a bad tackle and McLoone was lucky not to get sent off. That doesn't mean he was sent on the pitch to intentionally injure another player, quite possibly seriously.  Especially when he's one of your most promising young players who excelled in last year's U-21s and this year's league games and someone you want back in the first team as soon as possible.

I was told a story from two people independently from other, several days apart, who were both close behind the Donegal dugout and who both overheard a certain statement which would question that.

Just spit it out and less of teh code talk. What was heard?

[Cityslickr]

Jim did break one rule himself though. He ran onto the pitch encouraging the ref to give Cian O'Sullivan a yellow or maybe a red for an elbow that wasn't! Jim and Rory Gallagher were gesticulating to the Ref that O'Sullivan had used his elbow when he didn't. We don't need this sort of behaviour from a Manager!

[mylestheslasher]

There are only two relevant questions. Are you happy to watch games where one team lines out with 14 men behind the ball and if this is acceptable to gaa bosses does it impact in a negative way to the popularity of the game? I think most sane people know the answer to that