Donegal v Dublin semi final 28-8-11

[lynchbhoy]

Gotta love those rules in the GAA that don't actually exist 

"more advantageous" is just that - forwards, sidewards, backwards even.

Have a think what else this fella told you earlier in the year and then check it against the actual rulebook before you quote him again 

that 'fella' being the course leader in the Dublin referee's course in parnell park ...

please post up where your quote of the rules comes from, as I am always open to correction...

[lynchbhoy]

I have to say I think some people on here have been far too critical of donegals tactics. The donegal management set there team up that gave them the best chance to win. On the dublin team they probably have 3 or 4 players who are capable of scoring points from play under pressure, alan and bernard brogan, connolly and cullen is reliably accurate too.

None of the dublin backs or there midfielders are capable of taking a ball on the forty and kicking it over the bar under pressure, you could add cahill and flynn from the forwards into the category. It seems pretty sensible to me for donegal to drop all there men back and force the dublin half forward line and midfield to beat them.

Dublins first 3 points came from frees that very very soft, the first one i do feel that brogan was pulled and deserved a free but the other two he just dived. Dublins 4th point came from anthony thompson stupidly knocking a ball out of dublin players hands after free was awarded which brought the free into cluxtons range which he then scored.  Neil mcgee got a poor fist on a high ball that went for 45 which cluxton kicked dublins 5th point, im sure mcgee would like that back because donegal would have worked on not conceding cheap 45s.

On another day donegal might have held dublin to 3 or 4 points. That leaves donegal only needing to score 5 or 6 points to win. While obviously this isnt everyones idea of how football should be played, this was donegals best chance of beating dublin.

With regards dublins kickouts, dublins main focus of there attacks is to move the ball fast up the field by kicking preferably to stop the blanket defence getting in place. Donegal just got into there defensive position straight away and let dublin have the ball because donegal felt once they had the brogans marked and space crowded out dublin wouldnt have the creativity to break them down.

The majority of dublins goals this year came from turnovers in the middle of the pitch and then quick direct ball into full forward line. Donegal just left extra men back at all times so if they turnovered the ball, dublins counter attack could quickly be snuffed out.

I felt the losing of the game for donegal was around same time lacey went off, players like walsh, kavanagh, murphy and bradley got tired and when donegal won the ball in defence they didnt have the legs to get forward and donegal struggled to get by halfway with there running game in last 25 minutes as a result. A few fresh legs needed to be introduced.

Having been at the tyrone donegal match in which donegal started with mcfadden and mcilhinney in full forward line and mcbearty just in front of them, they changed on sunday to just mcfadden inside the forty. I believe this was as mentioned above donegal felt they had to completely crowd out there own forty to nullify the two brogans and connolly and make the dublin midfielders and half backs try and score from outide the forty. I reckon if donegal had beaten dublin on sunday they would have changed back to the their formation from tyrone game against kerry.

There tactics simply wouldnt work against kerry as while dublin only have 3 or 4 players capable of scoring under pressure kerry have 9 or 10. The likes of sheehan, maher, brosnan, 2 o sheas would be well capable of kicking scores from outside the forty and gooch inside much more creative than any dublin player at being able to breakdown the donegal defence. Kerry would easily score 12 or 13 scores against donegal and       donegal wouldnt be able to just leave one up front because they would never get the scores required.

No doubt donegal will continue with there defensive system, I just think people need to realise that the one used on sunday was an extreme version of the one they were using all this year and the extreme version was used because I feel donegal felt they could win the game with 6 or 7 points.

Agreed. Good post.

[Canalman]

In fairness I have to say that technically Donegal players were immense. Their handling/ skill levels were faultless and McGuinness will have to be credited for that.

As for their tactics , not for me to comment either way as I am not from Donegal. Presume it will be "tweaked" next season.

[cadence]

I have to say I think some people on here have been far too critical of donegals tactics. The donegal management set there team up that gave them the best chance to win. On the dublin team they probably have 3 or 4 players who are capable of scoring points from play under pressure, alan and bernard brogan, connolly and cullen is reliably accurate too.

None of the dublin backs or there midfielders are capable of taking a ball on the forty and kicking it over the bar under pressure, you could add cahill and flynn from the forwards into the category. It seems pretty sensible to me for donegal to drop all there men back and force the dublin half forward line and midfield to beat them.

Dublins first 3 points came from frees that very very soft, the first one i do feel that brogan was pulled and deserved a free but the other two he just dived. Dublins 4th point came from anthony thompson stupidly knocking a ball out of dublin players hands after free was awarded which brought the free into cluxtons range which he then scored.  Neil mcgee got a poor fist on a high ball that went for 45 which cluxton kicked dublins 5th point, im sure mcgee would like that back because donegal would have worked on not conceding cheap 45s.

On another day donegal might have held dublin to 3 or 4 points. That leaves donegal only needing to score 5 or 6 points to win. While obviously this isnt everyones idea of how football should be played, this was donegals best chance of beating dublin.

With regards dublins kickouts, dublins main focus of there attacks is to move the ball fast up the field by kicking preferably to stop the blanket defence getting in place. Donegal just got into there defensive position straight away and let dublin have the ball because donegal felt once they had the brogans marked and space crowded out dublin wouldnt have the creativity to break them down.

The majority of dublins goals this year came from turnovers in the middle of the pitch and then quick direct ball into full forward line. Donegal just left extra men back at all times so if they turnovered the ball, dublins counter attack could quickly be snuffed out.

I felt the losing of the game for donegal was around same time lacey went off, players like walsh, kavanagh, murphy and bradley got tired and when donegal won the ball in defence they didnt have the legs to get forward and donegal struggled to get by halfway with there running game in last 25 minutes as a result. A few fresh legs needed to be introduced.

Having been at the tyrone donegal match in which donegal started with mcfadden and mcilhinney in full forward line and mcbearty just in front of them, they changed on sunday to just mcfadden inside the forty. I believe this was as mentioned above donegal felt they had to completely crowd out there own forty to nullify the two brogans and connolly and make the dublin midfielders and half backs try and score from outide the forty. I reckon if donegal had beaten dublin on sunday they would have changed back to the their formation from tyrone game against kerry.

There tactics simply wouldnt work against kerry as while dublin only have 3 or 4 players capable of scoring under pressure kerry have 9 or 10. The likes of sheehan, maher, brosnan, 2 o sheas would be well capable of kicking scores from outside the forty and gooch inside much more creative than any dublin player at being able to breakdown the donegal defence. Kerry would easily score 12 or 13 scores against donegal and       donegal wouldnt be able to just leave one up front because they would never get the scores required.

No doubt donegal will continue with there defensive system, I just think people need to realise that the one used on sunday was an extreme version of the one they were using all this year and the extreme version was used because I feel donegal felt they could win the game with 6 or 7 points.

^
this. cracking post.

oh, and as an aside, what were the donegal staff doing out on the field of play shouting and roaring! not impressed by that. keep it behind the line.

[lynchbhoy]

In fairness I have to say that technically Donegal players were immense. Their handling/ skill levels were faultless and McGuinness will have to be credited for that.

As for their tactics , not for me to comment either way as I am not from Donegal. Presume it will be "tweaked" next season.

in the defence yes, but I'd have a small crib about McFadden in the forwards - his handling wasnt what it could be and missed out on a few chances because of that. He is capable of way better. I put it down to the wet and slippy conditions.
Donegal would have to tweak it even a small bit and they'd take some stopping next year. imo Inj and fatigue wil lessen their effectiveness.
They have footpassing skills also, but this style doesnt allow them to use that!

[OverThePostsAWide]

must consult the rulebook, but was pretty sure that we were told earlier this year tha a ref cannot move the ball up twice. He can move it to a mor central location in front of the posts, but the example last sunday was near the Dublin 21 yard line

Gotta love those rules in the GAA that don't actually exist 

"more advantageous" is just that - forwards, sidewards, backwards even.

Have a think what else this fella told you earlier in the year and then check it against the actual rulebook before you quote him again 

that 'fella' being the course leader in the Dublin referee's course in parnell park ...

please post up where your quote of the rules comes from, as I am always open to correction...

"must consult the rulebook" was your pledge for next Lent then 

I'll see your course leader and raise you the Rule Book:

RULE 4 - TECHNICAL FOULS
4.17 For an opposing player to be nearer than 13m
to the ball before a free kick or a sideline kick
is taken.
PENALTY - Free kick 13m more
advantageous than place of original kick -
up to opponents' 13m line.
4.18 To delay an opponent taking a free kick or
sideline kick by hitting or kicking the ball away,
not releasing the ball to the opposition, or
deliberately not moving back to allow a quick
free kick to be taken.
4.19 To interfere with a player taking a free kick
or sideline kick by jumping up and down,
waving hands, or any other physical or verbal
interference considered by the referee to be
aimed at distracting the player taking the kick.
Exception
A player holding his hands upright shall not
constitute an interference.
PENALTY - FOR THE ABOVE FOULS - Free
kick 13m more advantageous than the
place of original kick - up to opponents'
13m line.

New free kick each time and if a new offence is committed then the specified penalty should apply each time.

Please post up where it says this can be done only once?

[brokencrossbar1]

must consult the rulebook, but was pretty sure that we were told earlier this year tha a ref cannot move the ball up twice. He can move it to a mor central location in front of the posts, but the example last sunday was near the Dublin 21 yard line

Gotta love those rules in the GAA that don't actually exist 

"more advantageous" is just that - forwards, sidewards, backwards even.

Have a think what else this fella told you earlier in the year and then check it against the actual rulebook before you quote him again 

that 'fella' being the course leader in the Dublin referee's course in parnell park ...

please post up where your quote of the rules comes from, as I am always open to correction...

"must consult the rulebook" was your pledge for next Lent then 

I'll see your course leader and raise you the Rule Book:

RULE 4 - TECHNICAL FOULS
4.17 For an opposing player to be nearer than 13m
to the ball before a free kick or a sideline kick
is taken.
PENALTY - Free kick 13m more
advantageous than place of original kick -
up to opponents' 13m line.
4.18 To delay an opponent taking a free kick or
sideline kick by hitting or kicking the ball away,
not releasing the ball to the opposition, or
deliberately not moving back to allow a quick
free kick to be taken.
4.19 To interfere with a player taking a free kick
or sideline kick by jumping up and down,
waving hands, or any other physical or verbal
interference considered by the referee to be
aimed at distracting the player taking the kick.
Exception
A player holding his hands upright shall not
constitute an interference.
PENALTY - FOR THE ABOVE FOULS - Free
kick 13m more advantageous than the
place of original kick - up to opponents'
13m line.

New free kick each time and if a new offence is committed then the specified penalty should apply each time.

Please post up where it says this can be done only once?

To re-quote the legendary ref that is Big Sam McLatchey, "you keep talking, I keep walking"

[OverThePostsAWide]

must consult the rulebook, but was pretty sure that we were told earlier this year tha a ref cannot move the ball up twice. He can move it to a mor central location in front of the posts, but the example last sunday was near the Dublin 21 yard line

Gotta love those rules in the GAA that don't actually exist 

"more advantageous" is just that - forwards, sidewards, backwards even.

Have a think what else this fella told you earlier in the year and then check it against the actual rulebook before you quote him again 

that 'fella' being the course leader in the Dublin referee's course in parnell park ...

please post up where your quote of the rules comes from, as I am always open to correction...

"must consult the rulebook" was your pledge for next Lent then 

I'll see your course leader and raise you the Rule Book:

RULE 4 - TECHNICAL FOULS
4.17 For an opposing player to be nearer than 13m
to the ball before a free kick or a sideline kick
is taken.
PENALTY - Free kick 13m more
advantageous than place of original kick -
up to opponents' 13m line.
4.18 To delay an opponent taking a free kick or
sideline kick by hitting or kicking the ball away,
not releasing the ball to the opposition, or
deliberately not moving back to allow a quick
free kick to be taken.
4.19 To interfere with a player taking a free kick
or sideline kick by jumping up and down,
waving hands, or any other physical or verbal
interference considered by the referee to be
aimed at distracting the player taking the kick.
Exception
A player holding his hands upright shall not
constitute an interference.
PENALTY - FOR THE ABOVE FOULS - Free
kick 13m more advantageous than the
place of original kick - up to opponents'
13m line.

New free kick each time and if a new offence is committed then the specified penalty should apply each time.

Please post up where it says this can be done only once?

To re-quote the legendary ref that is Big Sam McLatchey, "you keep talking, I keep walking"

But Big Sam was wrong 

The penny drops now. Was your course leader talking about bringing the ball forward for dissent Lynchboy by any chance? 

Yes, I believe that should only be done once - it is not a new free kick but the original free kick moved forward:

RULE 6 - DISSENT
6.3 To show dissent with the referee's decision to
award a free kick to the opposing team.
PENALTY - The free kick already awarded
shall be taken 13m more advantageous
than the place of original kick - up to
opponents' 13m line.
Further dissent on an occasion shall be
considered as a breach of Rule 6.1 and
shall be penalised accordingly.

But we weren't talking about bringing Dublin's free forward for dissent 

[Blowitupref]

6 of Dublin's 8 scores came from frees how many would you say were actually fouls?

[Jell 0 Biafra]

12

[INDIANA]

In fairness I have to say that technically Donegal players were immense. Their handling/ skill levels were faultless and McGuinness will have to be credited for that.

As for their tactics , not for me to comment either way as I am not from Donegal. Presume it will be "tweaked" next season.

242 handpasses. With 6 months and a group of monkeys I could train them to do that. Genius technically alright.

[Kerry Mike]

We know how to handpass up the field. That's the difference. Watching this again jaysus the kicking and shooting was dire by both teams even when players were  not under pressure

[BennyCake]

6 of Dublin's 8 scores came from frees how many would you say were actually fouls?

None (couldn't see the last free decision though).

Barry Cahill should have got red for that challenge on Karl Lacey.

To be honest, the game wasn't as bad as people are making out.  It wasn't the greatest AI semi, but it was intense and tough.  Donegal's amount of hand-passing and their defensive game wasn't any worse than what alot of other teams do.  It worked until the last few minutes, but it was their failure to get quick ball into their forward line that was their downfall in the end. 

Tyrone v Kerry in 2003 was 10 times worse than this game.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Tyrone v Kerry in 2003 was 10 times worse than this game.

Yeah, the final score would really back up that delusional assertion, wouldn't it?! 

[muppet]

I would love to go to a Donegal training match. Any way TSG could send up a crew to record it.

Two 13 man defenses going at each other (or not) broadcast to the rest of us might open a few eyes.