Donegal v Dublin semi final 28-8-11

[OverThePostsAWide]

Boyle's provocation and dive were a disgrace and he is an embarassment to Donegal. Put me in mind of another Donegal man's antics (Paddy Campbell?) against Enda Muldoon (2006?).

But in case we get lost in all this Donegal bashing, Dublin weren't whiter-than-white. I can't bear to sit through that match again, but I seem to recall Michael Murphy getting his hand stood on - and it looked deliberate. The commentators talked through the replay and then went silent at the point where they usually spew "but of course it was totally unintentional".

Deliberately stamping on a player's hand is one of the lowest acts you can do on a football field IMO (just above feigning injury and sexual assault as above). Did I dream that? Who was the assailant?

[sheamy]

Simple things like this need to be cleaned up -
1 - Deliberately staying within the 13 yards when frees are given should lead the ball being moved 35/40 yards forward rather than 13 and a yellow card.
2 - Refusing to give the ball back when frees are given should have the same result as above.
3 - Anyone diving like Boyle did feigning an injury when wasn't touched in the face should get a season's ban.
4 - Anyone claiming an elbow or shouting for people to be sent off and coming on the pitch from the sideline should get a 3 year ban.
5 - Deliberate tripping of people going through on goal should be a red card offence.

the rules already cater for points 1 & 2 - and indeed the ref was incorrect when he brought the ball up a second time for Dublin when they didnt get out of the way quickly enough. The penalty there is a yellow card.
The points 3, 4 &5 are part of the debate we had this last few weeks on cynical fouling etc and the refs not applying the proper laws of the game in the actual match.

I disagree Lynchboy. The penalty for not retreating 13m from a free kick (or preventing a free kick from being taken) is a "Free kick 13m more advantageous than place of original kick". If a further similar offense occurs before the kick is taken then the free kick should be moved forward a further 13m as the "place of original kick" refers to the place of the free kick when the offense occurs. And so on up to the opponents' 13m line. A yellow card could only be appropriate if the same player persistantly "fouled" the free kick.

Regarding the second part of point 4, I have heard rumours that a certain player/manager while unlikely to get 3 yrs, might have to miss St Gall's run in the Ulster Club Championship...

Good. He's a cowardly wee bollox anyway. He was already done for doing similar in the Ulster final and was in the stands for the Kildare game.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Only getting to post now and conversation has moved on a bit but I actually enjoyed the match on Sun. Ok it wasn't attractive football but it was still a contest. Met one of the lads from the club at halftime and when he asked me what did I make of that with a forlorn face on him I said it was intriguing. And it was. It took Dublin a worrying amount of time to work Donegal out. Couldn't believe they left three men back on McFadden when two would've done the job and they needed the extra pair of hands around the middle. McMenamin made some impact when he came on, delighted for him and should run Barry Cahill close for a starting spot in the final.

The turning point though was McFadden's missed goal opportunity at the start of the second half. If he had nailed that Donegal would have gone on to win as a goal was central to Donegal's game plan. You can see the realisation on McFadden's face after that that was the chance and he probably wouldn't get another one. Lacey going off injured was another big moment, didn't see the incident that caused that. Was too far away from the Connolly incident as well but was talking to some Dubs on the way out and they said he deserved to go for a punch. After seeing the incident in the pub later I was convinced it wasn't a sending off. Now I'm not so sure. By the letter of the law it was a strike but the referee wouldn't have had a decision to make if Boyle wasn't acting the maggot. Should be banned from all of Donegal's league games next year, absolute tool. Gallagher's carry on was out of order as well I felt, that's the kind of rubbish that'll end up with management not being allowed out of their dugout areas like the soccerfellas.

Feelings among the Dublin support after were very mixed. Some were delighted to reach the final and some were livid at Donegal's tactics. One ejiot beside us even walked out of the match in protest before getting to the back of the stand and performing an about turn. If I was a Dublin fan I would be delighted with that on Sunday. Okay it was horrible to play against and it was worrying how long it took them to figure Donegal out but they never panicked, they kept the heads and didn't let the rhythm of the crowd upset them. They got a serious test in the semi final with damn all space to play in, Croker will seem like an open field in the final. There is one major drawback though, to stand a chance in the final they have to get Connolly off, I can't see them winning it without him. I realised he's a hit or miss player, but he's had his miss on Sun and, like after being taken off in the Leinster Final, I believe he'll be hit the next day.

[muppet]

Muppet, do you think Sundays game was more cynical than the previous weeks match between Kerry and Mayo?
I dont - honestly. There was more blatent cynicism in that first 25 minutes than the entire Dublin and Donegal contingent could muster in 70 mins!
IMO of course, but from what I witnessed on Sunday, neither Dublin or Donegal resorted to the same level of holding or checking opponents runs that both Kerry and Mayo enacted...

the difference was that Donegal killed the game as a spectacle for the high scoring neutrals with their tactics. Its horrible to watch for most , but not illegal or 'cynical' in the current sense of the word with regard to football this season.

Hang on we are talking about two separate things.

I thought Connolly was unlucky to get sent off in the context of that game. That doesn't mean it was any more  violent than any other game, just simply that the way it was played imho he was unlucky. For example both Donegal players involved in the same incident should have walked if the ref was consistent, the first guy should have had a yellow for raising his hands and another yellow for diving. The second (Kavanagh?) did the same thing as Connolly.

The second issue is Donegal tactics. One man in the opposing half for their kick-out is pathetic in the extreme.

[lynchbhoy]

Simple things like this need to be cleaned up -
1 - Deliberately staying within the 13 yards when frees are given should lead the ball being moved 35/40 yards forward rather than 13 and a yellow card.
2 - Refusing to give the ball back when frees are given should have the same result as above.
3 - Anyone diving like Boyle did feigning an injury when wasn't touched in the face should get a season's ban.
4 - Anyone claiming an elbow or shouting for people to be sent off and coming on the pitch from the sideline should get a 3 year ban.
5 - Deliberate tripping of people going through on goal should be a red card offence.

the rules already cater for points 1 & 2 - and indeed the ref was incorrect when he brought the ball up a second time for Dublin when they didnt get out of the way quickly enough. The penalty there is a yellow card.
The points 3, 4 &5 are part of the debate we had this last few weeks on cynical fouling etc and the refs not applying the proper laws of the game in the actual match.

I disagree Lynchboy. The penalty for not retreating 13m from a free kick (or preventing a free kick from being taken) is a "Free kick 13m more advantageous than place of original kick". If a further similar offense occurs before the kick is taken then the free kick should be moved forward a further 13m as the "place of original kick" refers to the place of the free kick when the offense occurs. And so on up to the opponents' 13m line. A yellow card could only be appropriate if the same player persistantly "fouled" the free kick.

Regarding the second part of point 4, I have heard rumours that a certain player/manager while unlikely to get 3 yrs, might have to miss St Gall's run in the Ulster Club Championship...

must consult the rulebook, but was pretty sure that we were told earlier this year tha a ref cannot move the ball up twice. He can move it to a mor central location in front of the posts, but the example last sunday was near the Dublin 21 yard line

[lynchbhoy]

Muppet, do you think Sundays game was more cynical than the previous weeks match between Kerry and Mayo?
I dont - honestly. There was more blatent cynicism in that first 25 minutes than the entire Dublin and Donegal contingent could muster in 70 mins!
IMO of course, but from what I witnessed on Sunday, neither Dublin or Donegal resorted to the same level of holding or checking opponents runs that both Kerry and Mayo enacted...

the difference was that Donegal killed the game as a spectacle for the high scoring neutrals with their tactics. Its horrible to watch for most , but not illegal or 'cynical' in the current sense of the word with regard to football this season.

Hang on we are talking about two separate things.

I thought Connolly was unlucky to get sent off in the context of that game. That doesn't mean it was any more  violent than any other game, just simply that the way it was played imho he was unlucky. For example both Donegal players involved in the same incident should have walked if the ref was consistent, the first guy should have had a yellow for raising his hands and another yellow for diving. The second (Kavanagh?) did the same thing as Connolly.
The second issue is Donegal tactics. One man in the opposing half for their kick-out is pathetic in the extreme.

sorry muppet, my response was nothing to do with that bit in bold - it was about Donegals tactics- which most teams seem to have adopted to a certain degree these days.

[adevvabr]

I have to say I think some people on here have been far too critical of donegals tactics. The donegal management set there team up that gave them the best chance to win. On the dublin team they probably have 3 or 4 players who are capable of scoring points from play under pressure, alan and bernard brogan, connolly and cullen is reliably accurate too.

None of the dublin backs or there midfielders are capable of taking a ball on the forty and kicking it over the bar under pressure, you could add cahill and flynn from the forwards into the category. It seems pretty sensible to me for donegal to drop all there men back and force the dublin half forward line and midfield to beat them.

Dublins first 3 points came from frees that very very soft, the first one i do feel that brogan was pulled and deserved a free but the other two he just dived. Dublins 4th point came from anthony thompson stupidly knocking a ball out of dublin players hands after free was awarded which brought the free into cluxtons range which he then scored.  Neil mcgee got a poor fist on a high ball that went for 45 which cluxton kicked dublins 5th point, im sure mcgee would like that back because donegal would have worked on not conceding cheap 45s.

On another day donegal might have held dublin to 3 or 4 points. That leaves donegal only needing to score 5 or 6 points to win. While obviously this isnt everyones idea of how football should be played, this was donegals best chance of beating dublin.

With regards dublins kickouts, dublins main focus of there attacks is to move the ball fast up the field by kicking preferably to stop the blanket defence getting in place. Donegal just got into there defensive position straight away and let dublin have the ball because donegal felt once they had the brogans marked and space crowded out dublin wouldnt have the creativity to break them down.

The majority of dublins goals this year came from turnovers in the middle of the pitch and then quick direct ball into full forward line. Donegal just left extra men back at all times so if they turnovered the ball, dublins counter attack could quickly be snuffed out.

I felt the losing of the game for donegal was around same time lacey went off, players like walsh, kavanagh, murphy and bradley got tired and when donegal won the ball in defence they didnt have the legs to get forward and donegal struggled to get by halfway with there running game in last 25 minutes as a result. A few fresh legs needed to be introduced.

Having been at the tyrone donegal match in which donegal started with mcfadden and mcilhinney in full forward line and mcbearty just in front of them, they changed on sunday to just mcfadden inside the forty. I believe this was as mentioned above donegal felt they had to completely crowd out there own forty to nullify the two brogans and connolly and make the dublin midfielders and half backs try and score from outide the forty. I reckon if donegal had beaten dublin on sunday they would have changed back to the their formation from tyrone game against kerry.

There tactics simply wouldnt work against kerry as while dublin only have 3 or 4 players capable of scoring under pressure kerry have 9 or 10. The likes of sheehan, maher, brosnan, 2 o sheas would be well capable of kicking scores from outside the forty and gooch inside much more creative than any dublin player at being able to breakdown the donegal defence. Kerry would easily score 12 or 13 scores against donegal and       donegal wouldnt be able to just leave one up front because they would never get the scores required.

No doubt donegal will continue with there defensive system, I just think people need to realise that the one used on sunday was an extreme version of the one they were using all this year and the extreme version was used because I feel donegal felt they could win the game with 6 or 7 points.

[OverThePostsAWide]

Simple things like this need to be cleaned up -
1 - Deliberately staying within the 13 yards when frees are given should lead the ball being moved 35/40 yards forward rather than 13 and a yellow card.
2 - Refusing to give the ball back when frees are given should have the same result as above.
3 - Anyone diving like Boyle did feigning an injury when wasn't touched in the face should get a season's ban.
4 - Anyone claiming an elbow or shouting for people to be sent off and coming on the pitch from the sideline should get a 3 year ban.
5 - Deliberate tripping of people going through on goal should be a red card offence.

the rules already cater for points 1 & 2 - and indeed the ref was incorrect when he brought the ball up a second time for Dublin when they didnt get out of the way quickly enough. The penalty there is a yellow card.
The points 3, 4 &5 are part of the debate we had this last few weeks on cynical fouling etc and the refs not applying the proper laws of the game in the actual match.

I disagree Lynchboy. The penalty for not retreating 13m from a free kick (or preventing a free kick from being taken) is a "Free kick 13m more advantageous than place of original kick". If a further similar offense occurs before the kick is taken then the free kick should be moved forward a further 13m as the "place of original kick" refers to the place of the free kick when the offense occurs. And so on up to the opponents' 13m line. A yellow card could only be appropriate if the same player persistantly "fouled" the free kick.

Regarding the second part of point 4, I have heard rumours that a certain player/manager while unlikely to get 3 yrs, might have to miss St Gall's run in the Ulster Club Championship...

must consult the rulebook, but was pretty sure that we were told earlier this year tha a ref cannot move the ball up twice. He can move it to a mor central location in front of the posts, but the example last sunday was near the Dublin 21 yard line

Gotta love those rules in the GAA that don't actually exist 

"more advantageous" is just that - forwards, sidewards, backwards even.

Have a think what else this fella told you earlier in the year and then check it against the actual rulebook before you quote him again 

[Billys Boots]

Good post adevvabr.

[screenexile]

Anybody have Paddy Heaney's article from today?? Good job it doesn't circulate in Dublin or Indiana might have a coronary!!

The jist of it being "Why is everyone slagging off Donegal when Dublin played the exact same game only they have a couple of better footballers which meant they won the game. For what possible reason did they triple markColm McFadden?" and a few other chestnuts . . . Good stuff!!

[OverThePostsAWide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaI1PDU2xw

The more I look at this clip, the more I think that Connolly was targetted in a premeditated and orchestrated way. Look at the body language of the 3 Donegal men involved.

Boyle provokes Connolly in the weediest "hit me, but don't hurt me" way. Connolly stupidly obliges.

Cassidy jumps around screaming like a fish wife even before Boyle hits the ground. C'mon, Cassidy, the fish wife? The one guy in the Donegal side that could do the most damage if he put his mind to it (and often does) doesn't even look at Connolly. No shoulder, no "interview".

Kavanagh comes in and pushes Connolly as a token gesture. He too is faux aggresive. No eye contact and backs off in retreat immediately. Job done.

Tyrone and Armagh were the masters of it in the noughties. Is that McGuiness's template? Right down to having Gallagher come on from the sideline to provoke the opposition a la John Toal?

All despicable and cynical stuff. That was the real anti-football element to Sunday's game, not the 14 men behind the ball.

[muppet]

Anybody have Paddy Heaney's article from today?? Good job it doesn't circulate in Dublin or Indiana might have a coronary!!

The jist of it being "Why is everyone slagging off Donegal when Dublin played the exact same game only they have a couple of better footballers which meant they won the game. For what possible reason did they triple markColm McFadden?" and a few other chestnuts . . . Good stuff!!

That means they had 3 defenders in their own half. How the hell is that on the same defensive planet as Donegal?

[sheamy]

Anybody have Paddy Heaney's article from today?? Good job it doesn't circulate in Dublin or Indiana might have a coronary!!

The jist of it being "Why is everyone slagging off Donegal when Dublin played the exact same game only they have a couple of better footballers which meant they won the game. For what possible reason did they triple markColm McFadden?" and a few other chestnuts . . . Good stuff!!

Because there was no other Donegal men in that half?

He is correct (to a point) though.

[The Hill is Blue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaI1PDU2xw

The more I look at this clip, the more I think that Connolly was targetted in a premeditated and orchestrated way. Look at the body language of the 3 Donegal men involved.

Boyle provokes Connolly in the weediest "hit me, but don't hurt me" way. Connolly stupidly obliges.

Cassidy jumps around screaming like a fish wife even before Boyle hits the ground. C'mon, Cassidy, the fish wife? The one guy in the Donegal side that could do the most damage if he put his mind to it (and often does) doesn't even look at Connolly. No shoulder, no "interview".

Kavanagh comes in and pushes Connolly as a token gesture. He too is faux aggresive. No eye contact and backs off in retreat immediately. Job done.

Tyrone and Armagh were the masters of it in the noughties. Is that McGuiness's template? Right down to having Gallagher come on from the sideline to provoke the opposition a la John Toal?

All despicable and cynical stuff. That was the real anti-football element to Sunday's game, not the 14 men behind the ball.

Ugly, cynical, cowardly and a gross miscarriage of justice ......... a disgrace to their county.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaI1PDU2xw

[BennyCake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaI1PDU2xw

The more I look at this clip, the more I think that Connolly was targetted in a premeditated and orchestrated way. Look at the body language of the 3 Donegal men involved.

Boyle provokes Connolly in the weediest "hit me, but don't hurt me" way. Connolly stupidly obliges.

Cassidy jumps around screaming like a fish wife even before Boyle hits the ground. C'mon, Cassidy, the fish wife? The one guy in the Donegal side that could do the most damage if he put his mind to it (and often does) doesn't even look at Connolly. No shoulder, no "interview".

Kavanagh comes in and pushes Connolly as a token gesture. He too is faux aggresive. No eye contact and backs off in retreat immediately. Job done.

Tyrone and Armagh were the masters of it in the noughties. Is that McGuiness's template? Right down to having Gallagher come on from the sideline to provoke the opposition a la John Toal?

All despicable and cynical stuff. That was the real anti-football element to Sunday's game, not the 14 men behind the ball.

Ugly, cynical, cowardly and a gross miscarriage of justice ......... a disgrace to their county.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaI1PDU2xw

...as were the Dublin fans.