Mayo V Kerry semi final

[Lar Naparka]

I think Mayo have to win the middle third. Mayo's backs may well do a good job, but I simply can't see them shutting down a forward line like that. There are at least 4 potent scorers, and two workhorses. Then Sheehan's well able to chip in from the back, as is T. O'Sé and Brosnan.

No, I think if Mayo are to win this game it'll be because of the O'Shea's Dillon, Moran, Mortimer and co dominating the middle third. It's a big ask, but it's possible. doing anything that might concede superiority there, in a bid to nullify one man would be a mistake. Kerry have evolved from that 'hit Donaghy with everything' because Tyrone showed them it can be disrupted. Now they mix it up. You're not sure if it's going to come through Declan O'Sullivan, passing or carrying, a long ball to Donaghy, a direct low ball to Gooch, or whatever. unless you can man up on each of them and take them out of it, there's no point concentrating on just one of them.

Win the ball out the field, and make sure your forwards take their chances.

For a Biffo, you make a lot of sense-at times anyway.
I think this is one of those times.
Like you say, Mayo have to win the middle third and do so throughout the game. In the three preceding games, Mayo managed to do so but only after a slow start in all of them.
Mayo need too lay their markers down here from the throw in. Forewarned is forearmed, as the old saying goes, and if Kerry manage to get the head start the langers did, they will be hard if not impossible to reel in.
But winning possession around midfield isn't much use unless it is put to good use inside. Of the lads you mention, Aidan O'Shea needs to pass the ball on quicker and to avoid running into tackles like he did on Sunday last. But he's a damn serious unit as David Brady would say and he can't lose possession if he hasn't got it to begin with. He can certainly gain a lot of ball and I expect him to be a lot cuter next time out. I think it has to be kept in mind that Mayo started off the season from a lot lower base than Kerry and have been making great strides in every game since then.
Horan has been keeping changes to an absolute minimum, springing subs to great effect and he's been quick to make switches and change tactics during those games.
I suggest that the gap in potential between the sides is narrowing all the time.
The gap is certainly less than it was, say, a week ago.
In other words, Mayo gained far more from their dethroning of the All Ireland champions than Kerry did from their workout against Limerick.
However, they will need to come on a bit more before they can hope to beat Kerry.
It's quite possible they will be able to move up that extra gear. They need to dominate the middle third throughout. Kerry have an extremely able forward division but their effectiveness depends on the quality of ball they get from further out. I'd not mess with the Mayo backs; they have been doing fine so far. If Brosnan and Tomás  can't come forward at will, Kerry's scoring options will be reduced.
Even with a 60/40 share of midfield possession, Mayo's forwards will need to take every chance that presents itself and noting I've seen to date suggests they won't.
Will Mayo get everything right on the day?
I know it's asking a lot but no more so than stuffing the langers was.
I will be happy with whatever team Horan fields; I know neither he nor his team will be found wanting.

[Mike Sheehy]

We are still sore about the last time we played Mayo in a semi final. That humiliation needs to be avenged.

[muppet]

We are still sore about the last time we played Mayo in a semi final. That humiliation needs to be avenged.

Ye are still sore about the Ice Age ffs!

[Kerry Mike]

The ice age finished in 1997

[Tubberman]

The ice age finished in 1997

Must still be some wooly mammoths up our way so, we're still waiting

[macdanger2]

It is the 21st year in a row that Frank has filled the role of chief goat-catcher for the age-old festival that attracts tens of thousands of visitors to Killorglin on August 10, 11 and 12 every year.

"I can honestly say that this was the toughest year ever. A gang of us spent three full days on desperately rough terrain at West Oulagh and my wife, Maura, had to keep watch with binoculars to ensure we were all safe," he said.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fair-resemblance-for-pucks-king-enda-163045.html

Those Kerry boyos are some men for soft chat, was it not a couple of years ago that they couldn't catch a goat and had to get one brought in from somewhere outside Ciarrai??

[macdanger2]

Interesting to see what the Kerry folk have to say about the S/F:

http://kerrygaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3893&page=1

This particular post sums it up fairly well I think:

It will come down to the middle third and especially Tomas and Paul. If these two play well and win their usual quota of breaking ball, I would expect that we should have enough.

The one advantage we should have over Cork is that Cork were missing key forwards. I would expect us to score a lot more than 2-6 if we had the possession Cork had.

How we deal with TO'S and Galvin in terms of breaking ball will be crucial.

Looks like Darren O'S will be back for it as well.

From a Mayo point of view, I think we'll be up against it. For a start, Kerry won't be as complacent as Cork were and Kerry have much better forwards than Cork have. However, if we play with 100% committment as we did the last day and we make better use of the amount of ball we have (let face it, there was a good bit of ball given away softly the last day and we should have been more than 4 points ahead at the end) then we'll be in the mix.

I would have preferred if we had the 2nd S/F, there would have been more chance of Kerry having one eye on Donegal/Dublin/Tyrone.

As regards McG, I wouldn't have him as FB - he doesn't have the physicality for it. Also, I don't think he has the mindset required for a FB in terms of not making mistakes which you can get away with further out the field. As anyone who as played back there knows, one or two small mistakes can mean a couple of goals conceded & the game lost and the other 20 balls you win don't really matter a damn.

Personally, I would have AF in there. I would however trust the judgment of JH & Co, they haven't made too many mistakes so far.

On a sidenote, I've been massively impressed with Tom Cunniffe this year, I never believed he would be tight enough for a corner back but he's playing great stuff so far. Signs of good coaching I reckon.

[spectator]

Mayo has to win midfield in terms of primary possession and breaking ball ... Its vital that when Kerry win any ball out there that they are harassed so if the supply goes in to Donaghy at all its disrupted and of poor quality. ... Horan is very defensively minded and will concentrate on smothering Kerry forwards and midfield and then hitting scores on the counter attack.

The FB position must be of huge concern for Mayo. Donie Shine is a big man but not the fastest and he gave Alan Feeney the complete runaround in the CF. Star has surprising mobility and pace for a big man and could destroy AF far more than Donie did, especially if Kerry resort a two man FF line. Don't forget he'll create a lot of scores for the other forwards as well as taking the odd score himself. Caff, i dunno, a few question marks there too after Sunday - is Cunniffe an option for FB Mayoites? I don't see enough of Mayo to really have a solid opinion on it. Ye also needs to factor in that JO'C will probably have Star take an odd soujorn out the field just to muddy the waters too.

Mayo's best option imo is to follow Ross Matt & Az' advice whilst trying to hit Kerry on the break. Otherwise i can see the Kerry forwards mesmerising the Mayo defence with their movement and pace if given the latitude tbh. I'd forget about putting McG back at FB btw despite the arguments for it as Star is too fast, physical and wily for McG in a defending role imo. Also, as Az said Kerry play a much more mixed game now. Their forwards are all quicksilver, but i noticed Paul Galvin was well capable of spraying the ball around with accurate foot passing earlier in the summer, not that Kerry are short of playmakers or anything like that.

The second half 'keeping the opposition scoring down' trick has worked well so far for Mayo, but there are a number of supplementary reasons for that and it'd be foolish to assume the game against Kerry will follow a similar pattern. In Connacht, terrible weather conditions facing Mayo's opponents in the second halves as well as them being poorer quality opposition, and against Cork dominating the middle third physically against complacent and tired looking opponents who'd hit the wall and allowed themselves to become rattled and desperate. Kerry will suffer none of these ailments. They'll give as good as they get physically, won't lack ideas, heart or motivation and will probably have a spare five point plan all of their own in reserve. I can see where Moysider is coming from too. Problems need to be identified and plans to be hatched all right Moy.

It's a big test for JH and Mayo. Going to be fascinating to see how they approach it and what gameplan they implement.

[moysider]

Mayo has to win midfield in terms of primary possession and breaking ball ... Its vital that when Kerry win any ball out there that they are harassed so if the supply goes in to Donaghy at all its disrupted and of poor quality. ... Horan is very defensively minded and will concentrate on smothering Kerry forwards and midfield and then hitting scores on the counter attack.

The FB position must be of huge concern for Mayo. Donie Shine is a big man but not the fastest and he gave Alan Feeney the complete runaround in the CF. Star has surprising mobility and pace for a big man and could destroy AF far more than Donie did, especially if Kerry resort a two man FF line. Don't forget he'll create a lot of scores for the other forwards as well as taking the odd score himself. Caff, i dunno, a few question marks there too after Sunday - is Cunniffe an option for FB Mayoites? I don't see enough of Mayo to really have a solid opinion on it. Ye also needs to factor in that JO'C will probably have Star take an odd soujorn out the field just to muddy the waters too.

Mayo's best option imo is to follow Ross Matt & Az' advice whilst trying to hit Kerry on the break. Otherwise i can see the Kerry forwards mesmerising the Mayo defence with their movement and pace if given the latitude tbh. I'd forget about putting McG back at FB btw despite the arguments for it as Star is too fast, physical and wily for McG in a defending role imo. Also, as Az said Kerry play a much more mixed game now. Their forwards are all quicksilver, but i noticed Paul Galvin was well capable of spraying the ball around with accurate foot passing earlier in the summer, not that Kerry are short of playmakers or anything like that.

The second half 'keeping the opposition scoring down' trick has worked well so far for Mayo, but there are a number of supplementary reasons for that and it'd be foolish to assume the game against Kerry will follow a similar pattern. In Connacht, terrible weather conditions facing Mayo's opponents in the second halves as well as them being poorer quality opposition, and against Cork dominating the middle third physically against complacent and tired looking opponents who'd hit the wall and allowed themselves to become rattled and desperate. Kerry will suffer none of these ailments. They'll give as good as they get physically, won't lack ideas, heart or motivation and will probably have a spare five point plan all of their own in reserve. I can see where Moysider is coming from too. Problems need to be identified and plans to be hatched all right Moy.

It's a big test for JH and Mayo. Going to be fascinating to see how they approach it and what gameplan they implement.

Yeah, I hope this is my last contribution on it and lets see what happens. A couple of things. Your correct about the Mayo second half stats. We all know about the old line about statistics.
Getting back to the old fb thing. AF was effectively dropped after Ros. Caff was rightly identified as better at 6 until he got injured and Vaughan came in there. Caff relaced AF V Ros because he couldn t replace both obviously. Now, we have lads confident these lads can marrk Donaghy with all of the other stuff flyin around as well. Somebody even mentioned  Varley... oops sorry Vaughan to do that instead. Maybe why not Geraghty - he always did a job on Meehan and sure size doesn t matter.
Why are people mentioning Brady? Brady should have played in 06 from start but in midfield. Nobody has ever suggested he should mark Donaghy. It was obvious then and it is obvious now. Remember as well we had Billy Joe to do a sweeping role in that game - a job he was made for actually.
Whatever. People dissing this were also pissing on McLoughlin playing 12, AOS and Trevor playing in the half back line and Caff even being considered for chb. I m happy enough. I m sure Horan do the right thing and go with his instinct and not do the popular thing that only gets you beat again.
Listen, I had Man Utd fans a couple of months ago tellin me that the story would be different this time in Ch L final. How could it be different? And it was worse if anything because a couple of years later, one of the biggest clubs in the world sent out the same old shite knowing well what was coming.

[ballinaman]

Listen, I had Man Utd fans a couple of months ago tellin me that the story would be different this time in Ch L final. How could it be different? And it was worse if anything because a couple of years later, one of the biggest clubs in the world sent out the same old shite knowing well what was coming.

Well said. I think Horan is wiser than that this time around and he'll have a few moves for Jack O'Connor to think about too. A few clips early on ala O'Shea on O'Leary will let Kerry know we're not going to lay down this time could be in order too.

[AbbeySider]

Two things.

1. The argument for McGarrity on Donaghy is not based on David Brady in 2006. It's based on a notion that a basketballer is physically best equipped to mark a basketballer. To compare McGarrity to Brady is nuts. Nonsense. Rubbish.

2. It's no wonder Mayo don't win All-Irelands. The Kerry game is more than a fortnight away and already we're at daggers drawn over a simple switch. If McGarrity goes in fullback it'll be the end of human life on the planet. Only McGarrity going in fullback can save human life on the planet.

People need to step back and calm down. There is no other county where there is so little unanimity on how to rate players. In Mayo you're always either the best ever or the worst ever. There's never any balance.

Maybe McGarrity man-marking Donaghy will win Mayo the game. Maybe him not man-marking Donaghy will cost Mayo the game. I don't know. And I'll tell you this: neither does anyone else.

Horan will have to make a decision as best as he can and then endure the second guessing of high stool prophets for the rest of his life if it goes wrong. He's the one that has to carry the can. The best of luck to him.

I dont agree Iolar, and I think that first part is ridiculous to suggest that just because someone has basketball experience that they could defend against another player with basketball experience even though it would be in a completely different discipline? If thats the case why dont we go up to Ballina and find Deora Marsh or any of the American immigrants that have played a bit of basketball and give them a jersey and see how they get on against Donaghy? 

IMO the Brady comparison is completely valid as Brady and McGarity are both mid fielders being called on to do a job against Donaghy at full back. Often Nicolas Murphy was suggested of being given the same role and Brady would be an obvious comparison there too. 

Also your rant about the poor unanimity anmoung Mayo supporters and daggers drawn at such a simple switch is a little annoying considering the reason we have lost to Kerry in the past was mainly due to the fact that Mayo didnt learn or change tactics to deal with the Kerry attack. We should all keep our head in the sand and not discuss it at all shall we?

And I am not overplaying the Donaghy factor at all, I would be happy with the rest of the Mayo defence I named being best able to contain their opponents and a sweeper may clog up the defence and prevent Kerry attacking down the middle, which was the other reason they destroyed us in the past. But maybe that one is another thing we shouldnt bother discussing? 

I used basketball as shorthand. For instance, I wouldn't suggest recalling Shane Fitzmaurice and putting him on Donaghy, even though he was a basketballer too. I think there are facets to Ronan's game that are particularly suited to man marking Donaghy. I could be wrong. That's certainly possible. You say we didn't learn or change tactics. Wouldn't asking McGarrity to man-mark Donaghy constitute learning or changing tactics?

I posted to add to the discussion, and I then pointed out that we tend towards extremism rather than colder and more balanced assessment in Mayo. You took that as an insult, which is its own testimony of course. If I didn't want to discuss I wouldn't post. Please Abbeysider; over to you.

Iolar, in any case this argument could be completely futile as it's highly likely that Donaghy will be playing midfield for Kerry to try and win that battle and primary possession against a particularly formidable Mayo pairing, but for the sake of argument I'll keep our discussion afloat.

You mention in your 2nd last post that the reasoning behind McGarity marking Donaghy was based on the notion that a basketballer is physically best equipped to mark a basketballer. That's a broad enough statement that I don't agree with.

I think that McGarity is naturally more attack minded and does not have the defensive instincts, let alone the body and physique to play in anywhere in defence. In fact, IMO he is not even technically gifted at tackling and would be more likely to turn his head or duck rather than dive and block a ball. But that's just my opinion; I don't see him as a defensive midfielder, let alone a defender. He has tremendous facets to his game as a midfielder, and an attacking midfielder at that, but I would cringe to think what he would be like defending on the back foot with someone running at him. Like you I could be very wrong in that.

But as I said, that conversations could be all for nothing. 

I agree that there are extremist views in Mayo when it comes to football. At the moment the Mayo team are heros (which I find amusing considering the abuse they got after Ruslip, even from a lot of posters on here) but a loss to Roscommon or Galway and people would be up in arms. That's just the way things are in Mayo and I put it down to the fact that you have followers and fans of the county team that are not as involved at club level and watching games and players week in, week out. They turn up to a few inter county matches and suddenly are connoisseurs of football without any prior knowledge of seeing a lot of the players on the pitch. But just because they go to a few inter county games they can say that "<Enter player name here> is not a footballer", "<Enter managers name here> hasn't a clue what he is at" etc. What gives them the right?

But I don't think discussing a switch like we are or arguing for or against such is actually extremism in that case. I think it's ironic that you brand the likes of me with extremism for discussing a switch, and then in the same breath make a suggestion for the same position.

[mannix]

  Kerry will be delighted at our win over cork, knocking out a contender and not really up to the mark with themselves, whats not to like?
one of kerry lads said before the mayo cork game thay were looking forward to playing cork in the semi, that speaks volumes of how they view mayo, written off again.
Anyway thats their problem, hearty congrats to MAYO team and management, i don't know how you can go from ruislip to croke park and be so different, my wife is from a hurling area down south and says Mayo are so unpredictable at this time of year that anything could happen,its hard to disagree with her.

[blanketattack]

A few clips early on ala O'Shea on O'Leary will let Kerry know we're not going to lay down this time could be in order too.

What? 

[AbbeySider]

A few clips early on ala O'Shea on O'Leary will let Kerry know we're not going to lay down this time could be in order too.

What? 

Aidan O Sheas shoulder on Noel O Leary up along the Cusack Stand that resulted in a yellow card for Aidan but branded by many as a turning point in the game for Mayo as it laid down a marker that there was a bit of spirit and fight in this Mayo team. *takes a breath*

[iorras]

Lads I think we are being a bit over optimistic about the performance of the Mayo backs the last day, that 2-6 could and probably should have been 4-6, Cork missed two very easy chances after the Mayo backs left their respective men and went for the man with the ballball. Now I think this was a tactic, as in they were trying to swarm the man in possession but that's a defensive tactic that's been around for about 10 years now and while somewhat effective, good forwards know it means that someone else is unmarked and try to get the pass in just when the backs are committed. That is what Cork were doing the last day and if we're using the same tactics its what Kerry will do but they will probably be more accurate and we'll be punished.

The reason I say this is because alto of the discussion here is based around the fact that we can do well against the Kerry forwards based on the Cork defensive performance. Cork got 53% of the ball, most of that in the first 25 minutes so yes we did do well to keep them to 2-6, but perhaps not as well as we think when you look at the game again. It was poor accuracy that stopped those other two goals and not great defending. 4-6 against an understrength Cork attack, even if we had managed to outscore them and still win is probably a more accurate reflection of our backline at the moment. that's the way I'd be looking at it. Not trying to be negative but after a few days the result glosses over failings. Watch that game again with the mindset that we had drawn or lost, we might not be as optimistic at the performance of the Mayo backline.