Galway vs Waterford

[heffo]

My thoughts on last weekend's action.

http://shane-sportsramblings.blogspot.com/2011/07/dublin-validated-waterford-redeemed.html

Excellent stuff as always AZ - don't forget about the Walsh Cup triumph though!

[GalwayBayBoy]

My thoughts on last weekend's action.

http://shane-sportsramblings.blogspot.com/2011/07/dublin-validated-waterford-redeemed.html

I certainly agree with this part AZ. Especially the highlighted text.

And then Galway. I don't want to put the boot in, as enough people around the country and county of Galway will be lining up to do that, but I will just say one thing. About 10 minutes into that second half, you could tell by the body language of the Galway men that the game was over. The only question was the margin of defeat. At that stage there was about 6 points into it, and Galway needed leaders, men with puffed out chests who refused to accept this happening again. Apart from flashes from Joe Canning and the odd skirmish no Galway player took his team by the scruff of the neck and led them out of their malaise. That is something that they need to find, and maybe they need to put an emphasis on that over some of the skillful hurlers that they have. Skill is great, but if you can't win the ball then you might as well be at home. It's very, very disappointing for Galway, but if we are to be honest it's not that surprising either.

Galway tend to specialise in producing nippy wristy hurlers with plenty of skill. The type that is perfect for underage hurling where the game is played fast and loose. And even at senior level Galway tend to play best when games are fast and loose. (ie, Clare and Cork this Summer). Senior hurling is not underage hurling though. You can have as many nippy and skillful corner-forwards and corner-backs as you like but what you need in the middle third of the field is men who will go in hard to win possession of the ball and then deliver it to these skillful lads. This is the type of player we just don't seem to produce in Galway. And if we do produce them they are disposed off when they are young in favour of a lad who might have more hurling ability in him but doesn't have the same mongrel and fight. We seem to want to have the most skillful available player in every position when in reality Galway need more lads like Cyril Donnellan. A lad maybe not as talented hurling wise as some of those around him but who will go in where it hurts to win the ball as he did after he came on against Waterford.

[mouview]

And then Galway. I don't want to put the boot in, as enough people around the country and county of Galway will be lining up to do that, but I will just say one thing. About 10 minutes into that second half, you could tell by the body language of the Galway men that the game was over. The only question was the margin of defeat. At that stage there was about 6 points into it, and Galway needed leaders, men with puffed out chests who refused to accept this happening again. Apart from flashes from Joe Canning and the odd skirmish no Galway player took his team by the scruff of the neck and led them out of their malaise. That is something that they need to find, and maybe they need to put an emphasis on that over some of the skillful hurlers that they have. Skill is great, but if you can't win the ball then you might as well be at home. It's very, very disappointing for Galway, but if we are to be honest it's not that surprising either.

Galway tend to specialise in producing nippy wristy hurlers with plenty of skill. The type that is perfect for underage hurling where the game is played fast and loose. And even at senior level Galway tend to play best when games are fast and loose. (ie, Clare and Cork this Summer). Senior hurling is not underage hurling though. You can have as many nippy and skillful corner-forwards and corner-backs as you like but what you need in the middle third of the field is men who will go in hard to win possession of the ball and then deliver it to these skillful lads. This is the type of player we just don't seem to produce in Galway. And if we do produce them they are disposed off when they are young in favour of a lad who might have more hurling ability in him but doesn't have the same mongrel and fight. We seem to want to have the most skillful available player in every position when in reality Galway need more lads like Cyril Donnellan. A lad maybe not as talented hurling wise as some of those around him but who will go in where it hurts to win the ball as he did after he came on against Waterford.
[/quote]

I understand what you're trying to say, GBB, but jeez, another Cyril Donnellan, God help us all, is the last thing we need.

[GalwayBayBoy]

And then Galway. I don't want to put the boot in, as enough people around the country and county of Galway will be lining up to do that, but I will just say one thing. About 10 minutes into that second half, you could tell by the body language of the Galway men that the game was over. The only question was the margin of defeat. At that stage there was about 6 points into it, and Galway needed leaders, men with puffed out chests who refused to accept this happening again. Apart from flashes from Joe Canning and the odd skirmish no Galway player took his team by the scruff of the neck and led them out of their malaise. That is something that they need to find, and maybe they need to put an emphasis on that over some of the skillful hurlers that they have. Skill is great, but if you can't win the ball then you might as well be at home. It's very, very disappointing for Galway, but if we are to be honest it's not that surprising either.

Galway tend to specialise in producing nippy wristy hurlers with plenty of skill. The type that is perfect for underage hurling where the game is played fast and loose. And even at senior level Galway tend to play best when games are fast and loose. (ie, Clare and Cork this Summer). Senior hurling is not underage hurling though. You can have as many nippy and skillful corner-forwards and corner-backs as you like but what you need in the middle third of the field is men who will go in hard to win possession of the ball and then deliver it to these skillful lads. This is the type of player we just don't seem to produce in Galway. And if we do produce them they are disposed off when they are young in favour of a lad who might have more hurling ability in him but doesn't have the same mongrel and fight. We seem to want to have the most skillful available player in every position when in reality Galway need more lads like Cyril Donnellan. A lad maybe not as talented hurling wise as some of those around him but who will go in where it hurts to win the ball as he did after he came on against Waterford.

I understand what you're trying to say, GBB, but jeez, another Cyril Donnellan, God help us all, is the last thing we need.
[/quote]

Well ideally you want a Cyril Donnelllan type with a bit more hurling in him but having said that he's one of the very few Galway players that can contest for 50/50 ball in the middle third of the field and at least win his fair share.

[belleaqua]

And then Galway. I don't want to put the boot in, as enough people around the country and county of Galway will be lining up to do that, but I will just say one thing. About 10 minutes into that second half, you could tell by the body language of the Galway men that the game was over. The only question was the margin of defeat. At that stage there was about 6 points into it, and Galway needed leaders, men with puffed out chests who refused to accept this happening again. Apart from flashes from Joe Canning and the odd skirmish no Galway player took his team by the scruff of the neck and led them out of their malaise. That is something that they need to find, and maybe they need to put an emphasis on that over some of the skillful hurlers that they have. Skill is great, but if you can't win the ball then you might as well be at home. It's very, very disappointing for Galway, but if we are to be honest it's not that surprising either.

Galway tend to specialise in producing nippy wristy hurlers with plenty of skill. The type that is perfect for underage hurling where the game is played fast and loose. And even at senior level Galway tend to play best when games are fast and loose. (ie, Clare and Cork this Summer). Senior hurling is not underage hurling though. You can have as many nippy and skillful corner-forwards and corner-backs as you like but what you need in the middle third of the field is men who will go in hard to win possession of the ball and then deliver it to these skillful lads. This is the type of player we just don't seem to produce in Galway. And if we do produce them they are disposed off when they are young in favour of a lad who might have more hurling ability in him but doesn't have the same mongrel and fight. We seem to want to have the most skillful available player in every position when in reality Galway need more lads like Cyril Donnellan. A lad maybe not as talented hurling wise as some of those around him but who will go in where it hurts to win the ball as he did after he came on against Waterford.

I understand what you're trying to say, GBB, but jeez, another Cyril Donnellan, God help us all, is the last thing we need.
[/quote]

I don't think iv ever been as disillusioned leaving a Galway game than last Sunday with perhaps the exception of 1998 leaving Croke Park against the same opposition. The lack of fight was mind boggling. Apart from Joe Canning, Cyril Donnellan and Barry Daly there was no heart or effort.

Id have to agree with Galway Bay Boy, we need more hurlers in the Cyril Donnellan mould. It baffles me how supporters in Galway still would pick their 'ideal' teams and include the likes of Tannion and Farragher who never want to know when the going gets tough. It typifies whats wrong with Galway hurling and their supporters. When things go wrong they go for the obvious easy clear out targets. It used to be David Forde, now it seems to be Cyril Donnellan.

Mouview you seem to have an awful dread of him, he could do with a little more confidence in his ability I think, he puts up some high scores in the club games and seems to have plenty of hurling. Watching the recording of the Sunday game, Tomas Mulcahy felt Donnellan was unlucky to be culled after the Dublin game and was needed in that team.

Tis very hard to know where to go from here.

[mouview]

Mouview you seem to have an awful dread of him, he could do with a little more confidence in his ability I think, he puts up some high scores in the club games and seems to have plenty of hurling. Watching the recording of the Sunday game, Tomas Mulcahy felt Donnellan was unlucky to be culled after the Dublin game and was needed in that team.

Tis very hard to know where to go from here.

Aye, maybe he needs more confidence, and in fairness to the lad he's as honest as hell and a great trier. However, his sheer hurling ability borders on the shocking at times, hit 2/3 terrible wides from good positions last Sunday. Turned over any amount of ball v. Dublin as well. He first came on the panel in '08 under Loughnane but in truth has regressed even since that when he should be improving through playing with (allegedly) higher standard players. Anyway, as you said, Farragher and Tannian just don't cut it when things are tough, Cullinane and Smyth could be added to that list also I fear.

Tis very hard to know where to go now, especially as I feel that a slowly declining KK were really there for the taking this year. However, you must never ever ever ever quit.

[maddog]

Galway 5-18 Kilkenny 4-18. That was semi final from 6 or 7 years ago. How many survivors are there from that Galway team?

[belleaqua]

Mouview you seem to have an awful dread of him, he could do with a little more confidence in his ability I think, he puts up some high scores in the club games and seems to have plenty of hurling. Watching the recording of the Sunday game, Tomas Mulcahy felt Donnellan was unlucky to be culled after the Dublin game and was needed in that team.

Tis very hard to know where to go from here.

Aye, maybe he needs more confidence, and in fairness to the lad he's as honest as hell and a great trier. However, his sheer hurling ability borders on the shocking at times, hit 2/3 terrible wides from good positions last Sunday. Turned over any amount of ball v. Dublin as well. He first came on the panel in '08 under Loughnane but in truth has regressed even since that when he should be improving through playing with (allegedly) higher standard players. Anyway, as you said, Farragher and Tannian just don't cut it when things are tough, Cullinane and Smyth could be added to that list also I fear.

Tis very hard to know where to go now, especially as I feel that a slowly declining KK were really there for the taking this year. However, you must never ever ever ever quit.

Ya, they are fair points. I guess my argument is that I would rather have Donnellan and the likes and improve him than sticking with the guys we have mentioned. I think he has the hurling from the few club games Id see. A bit more coaching in terms of a strategy, taking the right options etc. You cant instill what he has in the likes of the players we have mentioned but you can instill more hurling and better use of possession. The Dublin game and the Waterford game showed that he is capable of getting on the ball. The rest needs serious work no doubt.

As for the future, a lot of talk already before McIntyre has even left, no doubt there will be twenty names in the hat on selection night again.

[heffo]

Whatever happened Darren O'Shaughnessy? Didn't he captain your U21's and played a few Senior games about ten years ago or so?

[belleaqua]

Galway 5-18 Kilkenny 4-18. That was semi final from 6 or 7 years ago. How many survivors are there from that Galway team?

Bout 5 or 6 I would say. Hayes, Farragher, Tony Og, Kavanagh and maybe David Collins and Alan Kerins although he wasnt fit for last Sunday.

[maddog]

Just wondered as they looked on the brink of becoming a very strong side that could challenge every year. A mate of mine from the Athenry area had mentioned that there are so many more guys not getting a look in that could do better than how they performed v Dublin and presumably his opinion wont have shifted in the meantime.

[belleaqua]

Just wondered as they looked on the brink of becoming a very strong side that could challenge every year. A mate of mine from the Athenry area had mentioned that there are so many more guys not getting a look in that could do better than how they performed v Dublin and presumably his opinion wont have shifted in the meantime.

Im not too sure if there is. Arguably there is a lot around a similar standard but I cant say there are too many.

Joe Cooney, a man who would never have harsh words for anyone told a couple of us  a few years ago that there were about 10 hurlers in Galway that you could put out at 10, 12, 13 and 15 and you couldnt seperate them. Play unbelievable one day but 2 or 3 days together, forget about it. All lovely hurlers of great ability, speed etc. Very rare that one of these consistently stood out. Its very hard to say things have changed. There's a list of them, Farragher, Tannion, Gantly, Eanna Ryan, Andy Smith, James Regan, Aonghus Callanan, Eoin Forde, Aidan Harte. You would find 4 to 5 more on the club scene in the same guise.

Alan Kerins, Kevin Broderick and Damien Hayes exceptions to the rule.

[ormondeboy3]

Déiseach

The other day I came across the famous photo of Eoin Kelly being congratulated by his girlfriend in a non traditional fashion after the 2008 semifinal while their son wandered off with a hurl in his hands and was wondering what happened to Waherford in 2009. How come it was Tipp that made the next step  upwards ?

I think so much of  GAA success is psychological and it's a real pity to see Tipp there instead of your crowd.

The default position would be Tipp are where they are because of talent and tradition. Waterford are where they are because of "hype". The hype that has seen them take their eye off the prize every time they are within touching distance. Fitzgerald won't throw a blanket on this anytime soon with his media princess antics. Hype is where Galway hurling are 3rd price favourites every year for the All-Ireland despite not showing anything for 5/6 years. You speak of "hype" elsewhere and 4 all Ireland in 40 years. It's 5 in 40 years and 4 in twenty....one years.

But we'll take '87 as a corner turned of sorts for Tipperary hurling. Since then: Senior All-Irelands (4), Munster (9), NHL (5). u21 All-Irelands (3), Munster (9), Minor All-Irelands (3) Munster (9) and 60 odd All-Stars.

We know where the Evil Empire are since '87 (that's Kilkenny btw not Tipp). 9 Senior, 7 u21, 8 minor.

Since '87 Cork have 4 All-Irelands, 3 u21, 3 minor, 2 NHL's, less Munster SHC, less Munster u21's, 1/3 less Allstars than Tipp. And they say there is no Big 3 only a Big 2. Well if there is to be a dick size contest (and if there is I want Tipp's porn star name to be"Gigantica", but then Tipp are the biggest pr!cks in hurling eh seafoid?) there is only a Big 2, it's Kilkeny and Tipp, with Cork nearly there! Anyway it's all a matter.

This is the silly season waiting for all-ireland semi's, the longest wait of the year.

[orangeman]

Galway 5-18 Kilkenny 4-18. That was semi final from 6 or 7 years ago. How many survivors are there from that Galway team?

Now that WAS a game of hurling.


Incredible. KK's defence tightened up well after that one ( until Tipp and more specifically Lar Corbett got at them in last year's final ).

[deiseach]

But we'll take '87 as a corner turned of sorts for Tipperary hurling. Since then: Senior All-Irelands (4), Munster (9), NHL (5). u21 All-Irelands (3), Munster (9), Minor All-Irelands (3) Munster (9) and 60 odd All-Stars.

How convenient. Go back a mere seven years and you'll see Offaly have won as many Senior All-Ireland's and provincial championship as Tipperary in that time. Galway have only won three Senior All-Ireland's but they have won no fewer than nine Under-21 and eight Minor All-Ireland's. So if your point is that Tipperary are part of the 'Big 2' if you exclude all the bad days for Tipperary and exclude the good days for everyone else then yeah, you're right