Mayo v Galway 26.6.11

[Lar Naparka]

Is Horan trusting and relying on the older players to save the day against Galway rather than perusing his original idea of a new fresh young team with his own stamp? Are we too a year too early in expecting that as it looks like the much of the new additions are down the pecking order?

I would be concerned if the likes of Seamus O Shea, Vaughan, Trevor Mort, Geraghty, Howley and the likes walk onto the team without a minutes NFL game time but maybe I am being overly analytic, worried and harsh here.

Lots to ponder though.

Lots to ponder about alright but no need to panic -not yet at any rate.
We seem to have a long list of injuries but Galway have their own problems in that regard and won't be able to field a first choice fifteen either.  Neither side is likely to have a settled look about it on Sunday next.
What does concern me a bit is the fact that all those we regard as marquee players have been around for quite a long time-since John Maughan's   last stint at the helm in fact. We've been looking to Alan and Andy and the other seasoned   'vets'   for  many years and it seems we are having to do the same this time around. If Ronan and Conoreen were fit, they would also be shoo-ins. There are lots of good-ish younger players about but they are more of the sheep rather than the shepherd variety.
Mind you, other counties have had the same problem with good minor and U21 lads finding it hard to come up to speed at senior level. The Rossies seem to be getting a good return this year but it's taken them a long time to get the best out of Shine and the others who won All Irelands at U21. I'm still reasonably upbeat about the coming game- even if it's the only the league form I'm going by.
It's a case of Mayo having problems but Galway having bigger ones. Galway are going to need one hell of an input from their U21s if they are to win and, going by the experience of Mayo and Roscommon with their U21s, I don't think they can do it.
It could will go down to the wire.

[ross4life]

Is Horan trusting and relying on the older players to save the day against Galway rather than perusing his original idea of a new fresh young team with his own stamp? Are we too a year too early in expecting that as it looks like the much of the new additions are down the pecking order?

I would be concerned if the likes of Seamus O Shea, Vaughan, Trevor Mort, Geraghty, Howley and the likes walk onto the team without a minutes NFL game time but maybe I am being overly analytic, worried and harsh here.

Lots to ponder though.

Lots to ponder about alright but no need to panic -not yet at any rate.
We seem to have a long list of injuries but Galway have their own problems in that regard and won't be able to field a first choice fifteen either.  Neither side is likely to have a settled look about it on Sunday next.
What does concern me a bit is the fact that all those we regard as marquee players have been around for quite a long time-since John Maughan's   last stint at the helm in fact. We've been looking to Alan and Andy and the other seasoned   'vets'   for  many years and it seems we are having to do the same this time around. If Ronan and Conoreen were fit, they would also be shoo-ins. There are lots of good-ish younger players about but they are more of the sheep rather than the shepherd variety.
Mind you, other counties have had the same problem with good minor and U21 lads finding it hard to come up to speed at senior level. The Rossies seem to be getting a good return this year but it's taken them a long time to get the best out of Shine and the others who won All Irelands at U21. I'm still reasonably upbeat about the coming game- even if it's the only the league form I'm going by.
It's a case of Mayo having problems but Galway having bigger ones. Galway are going to need one hell of an input from their U21s if they are to win and, going by the experience of Mayo and Roscommon with their U21s, I don't think they can do it.
It could will go down to the wire.

We didn't win U21 All Ireland but if we didn't have that 5mins of madness in Breffni park last year the likes of Shine.Garvey,Carty,Higgins & others might have added a U21 title to the minor one won in 2006.

Main reason why it's taken time for Shine & others to produce at senior level would be age e.g Shine was only 19 when he made his debut at senior level.

Mayo won under 21 in 2006 so alot of those players are 24,25,26 now.. O'Shea the youngest i think? so these guys should be showing better at senior level.

[Farrandeelin]

Totally agree ross4life. Howley and Kilcoyne would have been two of the eldest on that team. Hard to know why Mayo haven't progressed at senior level since. Well a lot of it could be down to O'Mahony but then again it could be down to the players not developing and progressing since.

Also because of the shit O'Mahony left us in, it was always going to hard for Horan to find his feet so early.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Good posts from Abbeysider and Lar. I'd be more inclined to towards Abbeysider's gloom than Lar's optimism though. Very nervous about this.

[moysider]

I think too much is made of U21 success and using minor as a yardstick is just ridiculous. A good minor is a good minor and nothing more. Many struggle to be decent senior club players. Those that are exceptional can play senior county straight away. Other lads ignored at minor can mature later and be serious players. McHale, Brady, McGarrity and Harte fall into the latter category. Not quite but sin scéal eile.

Nobody seems to know what exactly is going on with Mayo and injuries and all. But it could well be that we re more damaged than Galway will be. Amazingly, when you consider what happened last time we met, as well as what common opinion lazily assume, we could be wiped out in midfield. It happened in London apparently and with Bergin, Bradshaw and Hanley in the engine room next Sunday we could be wiped out. McGarrity in midfield and Harte in half forward line are massive losses. I d be 100% that Horan is privately cursing his luck about those 2 no matter what he might say publically about a strong panel. If Howley and Caff are out too then the ice is thinner still. In this climate having Trevor Mortimor on board is very comforting indeed. In fairness Trevor was always going to figure if he still had the appetite. The only thing was not to play him eleven and not let him talk to the media before the autumn equinox. Maybe he should have brought Aiden Higgins back though. That s not to say that the league has been a waste of time. The Feeneys can be played and trusted as much as any player can. Jason Doherty showed up well and Campbell was rehabilitated and should be allowed that off-day in London. On the other hand Burke did not get enough game time and he could have been a revelation in the Summer. As it is it looks like he might not be trusted and Peadar will be called upon to either save a game or give the last rites.

[moysider]

Good posts from Abbeysider and Lar. I'd be more inclined to towards Abbeysider's gloom than Lar's optimism though. Very nervous about this.

And rightly so. I was a bit puzzled with Lar.

How Galway could be in a worse place is beyond my understanding anyway. With the 3 amigos out they might have a case for wondering where the scores are going to come from. We however are going to have a more fundamental problem of wondering how we are going to get hands on the ball. Very worrying. Traditionally for us to win we have to own the ball 60-40, such is our poor decision making and wastage. Indeed, with Willy Joe, McHale, TJ and Maher we often got it up to about 70-30 as still lost!

At a couple of games early in the year JH seemed to be annoyed on the line with McG at times. Understandable of course. Still I think if there was a player he would want next Sunday above all others it would be him. From what I ve seen the alternatives have not done enough. Apart from AOS of course but worryingly, he is being touted as an 11. I can t see JH go down that road however. Then is course there is SOS, who is good enough if he s fit enough.

[Duine Eile]

The prices for tickets are ridiculous, 25 euro for a terrace ticket? Have they gone up since last year or did this all pass me by!

[galwayman]

With the 3 amigos out they might have a case for wondering where the scores are going to come from.

Agree 100% with that.The loss of Meehan, Armstrong and Nicky Joyce is huge for us.While none of that trio could be said to be consistently excellent (a la PJ) - each of them is capable of going to town on a given day and the loss of all 3 at the one time is huge.
PJ and Cormac Bane are probably the only 2 natural scorers left in the forward line now.Mark Hehir will prove to be a good player for us I have no doubt but 2011 is his first year playing county football at any level so we can't expect him to be dominating games at senior level yet.

On a separate note - I'd say there will be a poor attendance on Sunday. I know a lot of people on both sides of the border wh o would be into their football but very few planning on going to McHale this week. I'd say there will be less than 15k?
Probably a reflection of where both counties stand in the overall pecking order in football in the country at the moment

[Lar Naparka]

Is Horan trusting and relying on the older players to save the day against Galway rather than perusing his original idea of a new fresh young team with his own stamp? Are we too a year too early in expecting that as it looks like the much of the new additions are down the pecking order?

I would be concerned if the likes of Seamus O Shea, Vaughan, Trevor Mort, Geraghty, Howley and the likes walk onto the team without a minutes NFL game time but maybe I am being overly analytic, worried and harsh here.

Lots to ponder though.

Lots to ponder about alright but no need to panic -not yet at any rate.
We seem to have a long list of injuries but Galway have their own problems in that regard and won't be able to field a first choice fifteen either.  Neither side is likely to have a settled look about it on Sunday next.
What does concern me a bit is the fact that all those we regard as marquee players have been around for quite a long time-since John Maughan's   last stint at the helm in fact. We've been looking to Alan and Andy and the other seasoned   'vets'   for  many years and it seems we are having to do the same this time around. If Ronan and Conoreen were fit, they would also be shoo-ins. There are lots of good-ish younger players about but they are more of the sheep rather than the shepherd variety.
Mind you, other counties have had the same problem with good minor and U21 lads finding it hard to come up to speed at senior level. The Rossies seem to be getting a good return this year but it's taken them a long time to get the best out of Shine and the others who won All Irelands at U21. I'm still reasonably upbeat about the coming game- even if it's the only the league form I'm going by.
It's a case of Mayo having problems but Galway having bigger ones. Galway are going to need one hell of an input from their U21s if they are to win and, going by the experience of Mayo and Roscommon with their U21s, I don't think they can do it.
It could will go down to the wire.

We didn't win U21 All Ireland but if we didn't have that 5mins of madness in Breffni park last year the likes of Shine.Garvey,Carty,Higgins & others might have added a U21 title to the minor one won in 2006.

Main reason why it's taken time for Shine & others to produce at senior level would be age e.g Shine was only 19 when he made his debut at senior level.

Mayo won under 21 in 2006 so alot of those players are 24,25,26 now.. O'Shea the youngest i think? so these guys should be showing better at senior level.

I beg your pardon; I I was thinking of the pressure from Rossie fans on the young players to start living up to their potential when I turned the minors' win into an U21 title. 
I made the slip up because I was mentally comparing the Ross situation with our own- good young lads with underage AIs failing to make satisfactory progress in the senior ranks. Now, unless I am mistaken one more time, your U21s last year couldn't have many of the 2006 minors in action.  Was Shine the only one?
Either that or you had an exceptionally young minor side in '06.
It seems every county in the west is finding it hard to turn outstanding players at underage level into half decent ones in the senior game.  But I think a good number of young Rossie players are starting to bed in to the side- if you follow me.
Fergie seems to be the only manager west of the Shannon who has an idea of his first fifteen and I don't think even here that the mix is just right yet.  It may well take another year to discover the potential of the present Ross side.
Roscommon has no reason to fear either Galway or Mayo in the Connacht final and O'Donnell has a good lead- in to that game.  I am not at all over optimistic about Mayo's chances going into the game against Galway. There is really no form line of any sort there.
But I think that when the negatives are added up, Galway come in slightly ahead of Mayo.  That's all I am going by.

[spuds]

The prices for tickets are ridiculous, 25 euro for a terrace ticket? Have they gone up since last year or did this all pass me by!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0620/1224299224612.html

THE GAA could be facing an annual deficit of over €800,000 as a result of the adjusted ticket prices announced over the weekend.

Although the €5 reduction on all adult stand and terrace prices for central competitions up to the All-Ireland semi-finals is somewhat offset by the €10 increase on stand tickets for the All-Ireland finals, there will still be a notable shortfall.

Based on last year's overall attendance figures, the €5 reduction will result in about a €1.6 million drop in the overall gate receipts, while the €10 increase in All-Ireland final tickets will bring in an additional €800,000 – or roughly half the deficit.

Central competitions are everything outside of provincial games I tale it ?

[ross4life]

Is Horan trusting and relying on the older players to save the day against Galway rather than perusing his original idea of a new fresh young team with his own stamp? Are we too a year too early in expecting that as it looks like the much of the new additions are down the pecking order?

I would be concerned if the likes of Seamus O Shea, Vaughan, Trevor Mort, Geraghty, Howley and the likes walk onto the team without a minutes NFL game time but maybe I am being overly analytic, worried and harsh here.

Lots to ponder though.

Lots to ponder about alright but no need to panic -not yet at any rate.
We seem to have a long list of injuries but Galway have their own problems in that regard and won’t be able to field a first choice fifteen either.  Neither side is likely to have a settled look about it on Sunday next.
What does concern me a bit is the fact that all those we regard as marquee players have been around for quite a long time-since John Maughan’s   last stint at the helm in fact. We’ve been looking to Alan and Andy and the other seasoned   ‘vets’   for  many years and it seems we are having to do the same this time around. If Ronan and Conoreen were fit, they would also be shoo-ins. There are lots of good-ish younger players about but they are more of the sheep rather than the shepherd variety.
Mind you, other counties have had the same problem with good minor and U21 lads finding it hard to come up to speed at senior level. The Rossies seem to be getting a good return this year but it’s taken them a long time to get the best out of Shine and the others who won All Irelands at U21. I’m still reasonably upbeat about the coming game- even if it’s the only the league form I’m going by.
It’s a case of Mayo having problems but Galway having bigger ones. Galway are going to need one hell of an input from their U21s if they are to win and, going by the experience of Mayo and Roscommon with their U21s, I don’t think they can do it.
It could will go down to the wire.

We didn't win U21 All Ireland but if we didn't have that 5mins of madness in Breffni park last year the likes of Shine.Garvey,Carty,Higgins & others might have added a U21 title to the minor one won in 2006.

Main reason why it's taken time for Shine & others to produce at senior level would be age e.g Shine was only 19 when he made his debut at senior level.

Mayo won under 21 in 2006 so alot of those players are 24,25,26 now.. O'Shea the youngest i think? so these guys should be showing better at senior level.

I beg your pardon; I I was thinking of the pressure from Rossie fans on the young players to start living up to their potential when I turned the minors’ win into an U21 title. 
I made the slip up because I was mentally comparing the Ross situation with our own- good young lads with underage AIs failing to make satisfactory progress in the senior ranks. Now, unless I am mistaken one more time, your U21s last year couldn’t have many of the 2006 minors in action.  Was Shine the only one?
Either that or you had an exceptionally young minor side in '06.
It seems every county in the west is finding it hard to turn outstanding players at underage level into half decent ones in the senior game.  But I think a good number of young Rossie players are starting to bed in to the side- if you follow me.
Fergie seems to be the only manager west of the Shannon who has an idea of his first fifteen and I don’t think even here that the mix is just right yet.  It may well take another year to discover the potential of the present Ross side.
Roscommon has no reason to fear either Galway or Mayo in the Connacht final and O’Donnell has a good lead- in to that game. 

Yes you did make a slip up. 7 of the 2006 minor panel was part of the U21 team last year but i think Shine is the only one known to you? & years before that, pressure from our fans? all i know is...we were very competitive & somewhat unlucky v your guys.

There is a myth going about that we have the most settled team in Connacht at the moment not so sure about that? we made 7 changes from the team last year & finally our 06 minor players (currently 7 on the starting 15 senior team) certainly won't fear Mayo/Galway because they have came up through the ranks beating both! but i'm using minors as a yardstick that's just ridiculous.

[AbbeySider]

When I reread my last post I can see I came across as a bit harsh and I didnt quite get the points across I was trying to make.

When I say we are reverting to the so called "old guard" I dont honestly think it is a step backwards, rather it is just putting out the best team we have as in my view a lot of the new younger players brought in may not be ready to step up to the mark just yet. It will take a few years for some of the younger players to come through and break into the team and I was only highlighting that to try and dampen expectation on them. However, some of the older-new players brought back seem to be really showing well and I am putting the two Feeneys in this bracket.

Horan took some of the bravest steps a Mayo manager has ever taken in blooding and bringing along all the players he did in the FBD and the NFL. We know from all of that that there is an abundance of quality and talent in the ranks, but we also know from later games this year that some of them are not ready to take the step so patience is needed. But even having said that, the current panel and team is vastly different to last years later games so that is a huge positive.

The truth, in the cold light of day is that that old guard saved us, and saved the day against London. Make no mistake about it. And one guy, Trevor Mortimer, in terms, saved Mayo football - he had such an impact against London. The likes of Trev, Dillon, Andy and co have an awful lot more to give and if they are being trusted I think they will produce. With that sentiment, me saying that its a cause for concern that those lads are getting the nod without much NFL game time is premature, as they have the experience in abundance. Against Galway we are going to need born leaders to win the game, and it will come from the older guys who have shown the character in Pearse Stadium and McHale park against Galway before so they know what it takes.

In retrospect and reading back on my last post its unfair and probably hypocritical of me to use the same stick to applaud and commend Horan for bringing in club players on form and then seem to turn that stick against him regarding Ronaldson. I suppose if players everywhere in the county believe that if they outclass and outshine at club level they will be given the nod at county and thats all a club player can ask. I would be happy to see Michael Conroy, Darren Coen or David Kilcullen getting a call up if they were doing the same at club level.

Having that sort of ethos, is a good thing and is something we have not seen in the past so management should be commended. In the past you had closed panels with no changes where the battle for places was minimal and subs on the end of panels were on their laurels and not pushing - sure the saying went "Its harder to get off the county panel than it is to get on it". I dont think that will be the case when Horan is in charge, as when he was with us at club level there was battles for places all over the panel to the last sub, and when everyone was pushing together you get amazing results. Once these guys get used to playing together and they know that they will need a level of constancy to earn their place, I think that Mayo will be a serious outfit.

What I was trying to get at with the media pressure comment was a pop at the media as they are always the first to beat the drum and rub someone's nose in it and highlight what Ronaldson is doing at club level as a subtle reminder that his dropping may have been a big mistake. I dont know why I jumped on Ronnie, but sure I had the same gripe against Cunniffe a couple of years ago until he proved us all wrong and raised a lot of eyebrows with some exceptional performances this year, especially against Kerry. If Ronnie were to come on and kick the winning free against Galway or anyone else vultures (or was it animals Paudie referred to us as) like me would only be delighted for him and all would be forgiven.

Speaking about the Galway game, I think that Mayo still have enough to pull us through. I was worried about SOS fitness but someone in the know told me he is flying so that was heartening to hear. Also my heart tells me that there is a huge game in AOS so I am hoping that it will be against Galway. With Keith Higgins back he strengthens up the back line no end and we have cover in Geraghty and Gardiner. I think Geraghty could be in contention and could have a role to play the next day. He seems to be on a bit of personal journey to prove a point to everyone, and to himself so watch that space. Upfront we are not doing so bad either and they are all capable of taking scores so its not all doom and gloom.

All that said, this year Horan has been dealt a very, very tough hand, trying to pick up the smithereens and sift through the shrapnel from last year and trying to put together a team that will play with confidence in the championship this year. Id say that he (and the rest of us, as Moy eluded to) are cursing the injuries we have at the minute as they are coming at the wrong time, but again we still have enough to pull us through, especially with a home venue and Galway not at full strength either.

One thing that may be of concern is how quiet Galway are these days. The are going about their business and we are hearing nothing from them which could be a worry as they are leaving all the expectation with Mayo which could be dangerous. My expectation is not that high as we are in a different phase to other years, but I do believe that whoever wins on Sunday has every chance of lifting a Connacht title in the Hyde and I think we can do it.

One thing just struck me, I am actually arguing with myself here am I?
Is that a bigger cause for concern than the Galway game?

[IolarCoisCuain]

And one guy, Trevor Mortimer, in terms, saved Mayo football - he had such an impact against London.

Abbeysider, a stór, it might be no harm if you took a long walk in the fresh air if this damned rain ever stops. The pressure is building up and affecting your judgement. Trevor Mortimer and Cúchulainn are not one in the same, with due respect to both.

[AbbeySider]

And one guy, Trevor Mortimer, in terms, saved Mayo football - he had such an impact against London.

Abbeysider, a stór, it might be no harm if you took a long walk in the fresh air if this damned rain ever stops. The pressure is building up and affecting your judgement. Trevor Mortimer and Cúchulainn are not one in the same, with due respect to both.

I dont know Iolar, without him it could have been a very different story, and where would we be then?
Its not worth thinking about!

[IolarCoisCuain]

And one guy, Trevor Mortimer, in terms, saved Mayo football - he had such an impact against London.

Abbeysider, a stór, it might be no harm if you took a long walk in the fresh air if this damned rain ever stops. The pressure is building up and affecting your judgement. Trevor Mortimer and Cúchulainn are not one in the same, with due respect to both.

I dont know Iolar, without him it could have been a very different story, and where would we be then?
Its not worth thinking about!

A lot of people seem inclined to scrap everything that they saw at games with their own eyes in favour of a game that they listened to on the radio. I don't mean you in particular Abbeysider, as you're clearly a man who plays close attention to football, but there's been a general trend here in recent weeks. Word gets back from London that such a player was rotten and another played like God and it seems to have won sway over the first hand evidence of this season and of other seasons. And I'm not at all sure that the opinions of radio commentators are as worthwhile as what you see with your own eyes.

I remain very, very worried about this game on Sunday. I really hope I'm wrong.