USFC Qtr Final - Armagh V Down - Athletic Grounds 28th May 7:30pm

[Armamike]

A really heartening performance from Armagh and a big well done to the players and management team. POR has got a lot of stick but some of the performances have been dire. Supporters will give a manager and the team a break even if results aren't great, as long as the team go out and have a real go and try to be positive.  Not many people saw that performance coming. Judging by the league performances there must have been a lot of work done in training the past few weeks and the addition of the Crossmaglen players obviously helped.  For the first time in a couple of years they looked like they were well drilled, motivated and hungry.  The really pleasing thing was that they threw off the shackles and just went for it. The forwards kept a good line which helped the shape and balance of the team and the backs were left to take their man on, try to get out in front and win their own battle without the safety net of a sweeper covering for them.  There was a spell in the game when Stevie McD started to drop very deep and that was worrying, i thought the team was going to lose its shape at that stage (Stevie has a bad habit of that imo).  That performance is a benchmark for the team now looking to the next game against Derry so they've no excuse for going back to some of the negative and inept stuff we saw in the league.  As for Down i was really surprised how they faded away badly in the last 15 minutes.  I don't know if it was fitness, mental or whatever, but there wasn't much resistance shown.

Unbelievable minor game. Don't think i've ever seen a team come back from 11 or 12 points like that in a serious game.  That will instill a great level of confidence in them.

[lawnseed]

best armagh performance for some time very encouraging, if the lads can keep that up i can see a decent season to look forward to. great to see an end to the 25 handpasses infront of hearty and more importantly little or no back passing. this certainly was'nt expected i understand oisin has taken a hand in coaching the forwards we had him at our club for a couple of sessions- hes brilliant!

ps i thought the ref did quite well

[naka]

37 pages on 1 game of football. An Ulster first round game. Jaysus Christ it wasnt that exciting

Still, the Armagh / Tyrone stranglehold on Ulster looks set to carry on this season too

Sorry Sammy for Armagh people who were expecting a hiding it was that exciting

[Applesisapples]

good win for armagh tonite but alot of the armagh posters on this site should be ashamed of themselves with what has been written the past few weeks regarding some of there players and especially the management team. Probably going to get slated for this but armagh fans are some of the worst for putting down their team that I have ever come across  on this board                                                 

We have had so many false dawns. Armagh fans have been rightly critical of some of the tactics used over the last two seasons and frankly some performances have not been up to the mark. Saturday evening saw a return to the style of football POR had them playing in the McKenna Cup and league of last year. This culminated in victory over Down in the Div 2 final. However when we went to Celtic Park this had degenerated into the over defensive restrictive performance that saw us just manage to get over Derry through Jamie's individual brilliance. Lets hope they take the confidence from this to continue in the same vein. Having followed Cross's progress this year the more I see of Jamie Clarke the more impressed I have become. But well done AK, McKeever and Charlie they showed the detractors both in side and out that they are the real deal. I must also say that Paul Duffy, BJP and Mal Mackin have given me some food for thought as well. But we need to kick on from here and do the same against Derry. As to Down's performance Marty Clarke was outstanding and undeserving of the criticism levelled by some posters, he kept Down in it.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Hugely enjoyable game Sat night, pick of the three that were on the box and the other two were damn good games to boot. Good to see Armagh return to their diagonal kicking game, nobody does it as well. Decent performance from Down, think they have a better 15 than what they started with though, what was wrong with Benny? Also has to be said that they refereeing was excellent, as close to top marks as you can possibly get, the game really benefited.

[Sandy Hill]

good win for armagh tonite but alot of the armagh posters on this site should be ashamed of themselves with what has been written the past few weeks regarding some of there players and especially the management team. Probably going to get slated for this but armagh fans are some of the worst for putting down their team that I have ever come across  on this board                                                 

We have had so many false dawns. Armagh fans have been rightly critical of some of the tactics used over the last two seasons and frankly some performances have not been up to the mark. Saturday evening saw a return to the style of football POR had them playing in the McKenna Cup and league of last year. This culminated in victory over Down in the Div 2 final. However when we went to Celtic Park this had degenerated into the over defensive restrictive performance that saw us just manage to get over Derry through Jamie's individual brilliance. Lets hope they take the confidence from this to continue in the same vein. Having followed Cross's progress this year the more I see of Jamie Clarke the more impressed I have become. But well done AK, McKeever and Charlie they showed the detractors both in side and out that they are the real deal. I must also say that Paul Duffy, BJP and Mal Mackin have given me some food for thought as well. But we need to kick on from here and do the same against Derry. As to Down's performance Marty Clarke was outstanding and undeserving of the criticism levelled by some posters, he kept Down in it.

He needs a crash course in kick passing! Must say I really enjoyed this game (helped by the fact that I had a good bet on them @ 6/4). Nobody on the Armagh team disappointed and it's not very often that can be said. Great to see the move away from the defensive mindset with the switch to attacking football. Stevie had a quiet day by his standards and yet we managed 1-15, 1-11 from play. J Clarke is probably be one of the best the County has ever produced; a joy to watch.

[Berfaboy77]

As enjoyable an Armagh match that I have attended in a long long time. Like many of the posters I hope Armagh sticks with this formation, philosophy & attractive brand of football. I'd rather go down playing like this than being beatin by a point if dour defensive encounters. Armagh to a man were brilliant. Jamie Clarke was absolutely brilliant, the way he flicked the ball up with his toe in the second half was worth the entrance fee alone. There was so much fanatastic play and skills form both sides they were a credit. Most memorable were Clarkes goal, Bennys superb catch, Poland amazing Goal, a couple of fetchs from andy mallon, and Marty Clarke pick up and score in the first half.

The defence were great, Donaghy & Mallon in particular. Armaghs most reliables (Mc Keever & Stevie) had probably their quitest games to date. I though Tony Kernan brough a lot to the HF line and it was certainly mackin & BJP's best games in an armagh jersey.

Down have a great forward unit, but have huge problems in the full back line & their mid field is just not mobile enough. I'd bring mc cartan out and get rodgers in their asap. Down have definetly the personal to regroup and come back through the qualifiers

Well done Armagh, also a greta atmosphere at the match, followed by a few victory pints. Happy camper this morning reading the reports in the Irish News... Bring on Derry

[armaghniac]

We have had so many false dawns. Armagh fans have been rightly critical of some of the tactics used over the last two seasons and frankly some performances have not been up to the mark. Saturday evening saw a return to the style of football POR had them playing in the McKenna Cup and league of last year. This culminated in victory over Down in the Div 2 final. However when we went to Celtic Park this had degenerated into the over defensive restrictive performance that saw us just manage to get over Derry through Jamie's individual brilliance. Lets hope they take the confidence from this to continue in the same vein. Having followed Cross's progress this year the more I see of Jamie Clarke the more impressed I have become. But well done AK, McKeever and Charlie they showed the detractors both in side and out that they are the real deal. I must also say that Paul Duffy, BJP and Mal Mackin have given me some food for thought as well. But we need to kick on from here and do the same against Derry.

I very much agree ApplesisApples, last year was a disappointment when a decent performance in Croke Pk turned into a sterile one in Derry and a disgraceful one in Casement. Let's hope that we stick by the progress this year.

Eugene Mc Gee believes in the Indo. 

The ability to surprise is the greatest thing about sport and maybe that is why we will remember Saturday night's Ulster clash between Armagh and Down as easily the best game of the championship so far.

This game will stand as a testimony to how fine a game Gaelic football is when it is played by both teams in the proper spirit.

Foot-passing predominated and this applied particularly to Armagh. That in itself was the biggest surprise of the evening. The result, of course, was also a huge surprise because we had been led to believe that this was an Armagh team in decay, simply awaiting transportation to the kn**ker's yard. Their league campaign did give credence to that belief.

For me, a huge and pleasant surprise was the decision by the Armagh management to return to old-style man-to-man marking in defence as opposed to the modern craze of so-called blanket defence. This time, Armagh did not utilise 12 players back in defence every time Down won possession but, instead, each Armagh back was assigned to a Down forward and stayed with him all the time.

It would be revolutionary nowadays but for the fact that it was the way football was played for over 100 years until many of the managers decided they looked more intelligent if they opted for the massed defence. Saturday showed the stupidity of that.

The man-marking performance by Andy Mallon on Down's leading forward, Daniel Hughes, was a classic example of this skill. Clearly, Down underestimated the powerful effect of each Armagh defender largely confining himself to an opposing Down forward. And even with their tight-marking duties as defenders, Kevin Dyas and Aaron Kernan still were able to go forward and score three points between them from play.

control

There were many other reasons for this fine Armagh victory, most notably the control exerted by their excellent midfield pairing of Charlie Vernon and Kieran Toner. They did lapse for short periods, but when the game was there to be won in the final quarter, it was Armagh who took over possession and it was little wonder that we have the astonishing statistic that in the final 25 minutes of the game Armagh outscored Down by seven points to one.

Armagh overall were far hungrier for this battle which by previous Armagh-Down championship encounters was relatively tame, with hardly a decent wallop in the game.

But the football skill level was so high from both counties that it was a total surprise to get a game of such grandeur, especially since it was played in atrocious conditions of rain and some wind. It is in games like this that we should appreciate the wonderful skills that our Gaelic footballers perform even in terrible conditions and under the personal pressures that many of the players had to endure in this ultra-keen derby, especially around the Newry area.

No top-class game like this would be complete without individual genius and on Saturday the sublime skills of Jamie Clarke from Crossmaglen stood out like a lighthouse. His goal after just three minutes was pure class because of his clever anticipation in a crowded area that enabled him to receive a pass from his clubmate Tony Kernan.

It was a score that seemed to unhinge the entire Down defence and must raise serious questions about their defensive approach.

Marty Clarke too gave an exhibition of free-taking which sets him apart these days but his overall performance otherwise did not do justice to his reputation. Former Mayo player Billy Joe Padden showed how well the change of scenery worked for him with three excellent points from play.

James McCartan will not be happy with the performance of his players individually or collectively.

They got off to a bad start but later in the first half McCartan did some team revamping which paid off and temporarily seemed to change the game in Down's direction. The introduction of sub Conor McGinn was the key decision as he seemed to have a presence which many of his team-mates lacked. But the three-point rally proved to be futile as the second half belonged to Armagh after an early flurry of points from Down.

This is a huge psychological blow for Down as they set out for the qualifiers and they have now gone 17 years without an Ulster title. Armagh have a new lease of life and the presence of Oisin McConville as a forwards coach is probably the main reason for that.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

What a magnificent night Saturday was. I feel somewhat foolish given my fairly trenchent criticism of Paddy O'Rourke this year and last but I'm happy to admit that for at least this night, he had Armagh playing attractive football, believing in themselves and delivering a high class display.

Before the match, I would have been surprised about the prospect of a 5 point victory but a 5 point victory with Stevie McDonell playing a relatively peripheral role would have astounded me. The much maligned half forward line was excellent to a man but it was the passion and commitment of the entire side which secured the victory. I think we simply wanted it a bit more and it was one of those nights were everything went right for us. There are no guarentees of further success but at least we had one night to be proud of this year.

[Rufus T Firefly]

As the young folks say, Ulick just checked into the Gas Lamp with the biggest grin ever ;-)

Jeez Ulick you'll be the only Armagh man in there. Eastern Bloc.

No quite the only Armag man Tony. Run down past Red Neds, which looked like the Tokyo underground at rush hour. Headed for the Gas Lamp and now sorry I missed the legend of the Board that is Ulick. Were you (Ulick) in the group with an ex Armagh footballer from Lurgan?

[drici]

James McCartan is convinced that the wrong type of caravan training caused Down to lose out to arch rivals Armagh in Saturday night's Ulster Senior Football Championship Quarter Final.

'I've lived in a caravan for the majority of my adult life. I brought the squad to the caravan site in Killough on the Tuesday night before the big match as preparation.

I put the whole thirty five of them between the players and substitutes and various trainer/doctor types/hangers-on into a 20 footer by six footer. Stuck the RiverDance music on the tape recorder and got them all high kicking in a confined space as I imagined the Armagh defence would be.

Unfortunately I 'd picked out a high wind resistant caravan for the training whereas the wind on the night was much different'.

James who can light a fire using only a lighter and firelighters and a bag of sticks that he bought in McAnerneys upon leaving the Athletic Grounds on Saturday night says, 'All Day Breakfast In A Tin does anybody. I'd be having none of your John McCloskey type fancy dan food for my players. And around the camp fire is the only place to eat. That's what Senior Football Championship and caravanning are all about'.

Armagh progress to play Derry in the Ulster Senior Football Championship Semi Final. The match is due to be shown on RTÉ2 with a throw in at 2-00pm on June 19th.

[Applesisapples]

There's a serious lack of debate amongst Down fans here as to there own team's performance. Are there no Down posters or are they in hiding?

[Brick Tamlin]

What would you like us to debate.
We were beaten by the better team on the day. A team that was hungrier and wanted it that bit more.
A team who had more players deliver on the night. Down didnt deliver, simple really.
Nothing much else to say.
For what its worth i still think there isnt a kick of the ball bewteen the teams and im not wholly concerned with Down losing. I know there is talent in the squad and the right man is in charge and as a Down man im happy enough with that. Some would lose sight of the progress that Down football has made in the last 3 years. the test is now to see have we got the collective balls to bounce back.
Well done to Armagh. Yiz are still a shower but well done on saturday nights victory. Decent rivalries are what makes the GAA.

Drici, that post was a brutal attempt at humour.

[Applesisapples]

What would you like us to debate.
We were beaten by the better team on the day. A team that was hungrier and wanted it that bit more.
A team who had more players deliver on the night. Down didnt deliver, simple really.
Nothing much else to say.
For what its worth i still think there isnt a kick of the ball bewteen the teams and im not wholly concerned with Down losing. I know there is talent in the squad and the right man is in charge and as a Down man im happy enough with that. Some would lose sight of the progress that Down football has made in the last 3 years. the test is now to see have we got the collective balls to bounce back.
Well done to Armagh. Yiz are still a shower but well done on saturday nights victory. Decent rivalries are what makes the GAA.

Drici, that post was a brutal attempt at humour.

I accept and agree with most of your post. I note though that most of the debate seems to involve only Armagh posters and was just wondering why?

[PAULD123]

There's a serious lack of debate amongst Down fans here as to there own team's performance. Are there no Down posters or are they in hiding?

I am happy to debate what happened top Down, sadly for me I think we can only debate what happened to Down by first talking about what happened to Armagh, who suddenly found confidence and hunger.

The only important thing is that we were well beaten by a much better team on the night. Armagh destroyed, no, obliterated our midfield. They at one stage retrieved 10 kickouts in a row. In every area they were probably better, but it was at least a close contest. But midfield turned it from close, to almost run-away

Saturday had several problems, player selection was certainly one. Anton McCardle should not have been brought on. Laverty is a player for fast dry pitches, where he can use his pace. Dan McCartan should have been taken off and replaced, as he was having an off-day.

While Gordon should not be moved to midfield due to his effectiveness at fullback, he certainly should have a more fluid role, moving to midfield to help out when things are going badly. If he had gone there for the middle of 2nd half we would have stopped the Armagh momentum and probably have edged the game. While our attack is fluid, our defence is rigid, players get given a location to play in and stay there. But in attack the forwards alternate position for large periods of the game.

But lets face it the biggest problem was that only one team came with the burning desire to win. Armagh fought harder for possession.

All tactical discussions aside what Down need is simply to enter games with passionate determination, we have the skill in our team to then beat most teams. I'm not a believer in the old adage that sometimes a defeat is a good thing.  But hopefully Armagh have taught us a lesson in desire. If the lads can learn from it and approach their games from now on with that hunger then we will not be toop far away

Of course (and I'm not saying this is fair excuse, or it is reasonable) a dry pitch would have made, and will make, a hell of a difference to this Down team. Blah blah blah, yeah I know it probably sounds boring and you're probably thinking it's the same old tired excuse but in over twenty years I have never seen Down play well in the rain. Yeah I know it's a pathetic excuse but I can only say what I see. You will only see if we are any good on a dry hard pitch