Croke Park

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Iit depends as Hardy said on the terms being offered...

1 - A valuation of the stadium being done - approx 450m eg and we receive 150m each from the IRFU/FAI....(contribution to cover the costs they save in building stadium)

2 - All money from above to be used to provide counties with a centre of excellence including artificial pitches, hurling walls, handball alleys, floodlights etc...

3 - Rugby would only need it during Feb/March and Nov when no GAA matches affected..

4 - FAI would be given a calender of GAA  events and not allowed use it on them dates...

[doodaa]

No definitely not...

[Shamrock Shore]

No

[Six Inch Nail]

No, we'd lose control of our own stadium. 

We all have big ideas of money coming back down the way and Dubsforsam1, you make some great points.  But in the real world money only goes one direction in our association and thats up.  Our club recently got a piece of land and made two new fields, officially being opened later this year.  It was easier to get money from the NIO than it was from Croker.

[full back]

If the terms are right-YES

Full back,
But, if it's a National Stadium, then the three major sporting organisations will have equal call on it, therefore gaelic games will be denied use when they might otherwise have had free reign, therefore how could the terms ever be right in such a circumstance?

By terms I meant that it can be used as the National stadia providing it doesnt interfere with the GAA calendar during the course of the year.
If the rent is used correctly over the years & filtered through the system to grass roots it can only benefit all of us. FFS in Armagh, clubs have to give the county board £4000 a year. To certain clubs this is a big chunk to pay before a ball is even kicked.
With clubs having more spare capital, hopefully facilities will improve, therefore attracting more youngsters.It may sound a bit far fetched but we have to look for the future.
I dont believe this bullsh1t of the GAA promoting other sports by renting CP out.As previous posters have said, while any National team are excelling at a particular sport there will always be an explosion of interest & the media spotlight will shine on them for a period, but not I believe to the detriment of GAA.
The GAA hasnt unduly suffered in recent years as a result of the soccer team doing well in the late 80's early 90's

[FermPundit]

No. I don't believe the IRFU and FAI have the right to become permanent tenants. The people of the GAA have worked long and hard to make Croke Park the fantastic stadium that it now is. Croke Park is home to Gaelic sports not all sports.

[Fionntamhnach]

While in favour of a temporary opening of Croke Park to accommodate the IRFU and FAI while Lansdowne Road (should be) developed, I would not be right now in favour of seeing Croke Park become the "National Stadium" in the long term. The GAA should make it clear that if work on Lansdowne starts before the end of the year, 2009 tenancy is a possible option but not beyond it and if not, make it clear that 2008 will be the last year, then find somewhere else.

[winghalfun]

To me Croke Park is now turning into J B Keane's "Field".

For years the GAA has been cultivating a small plot of land and nurturing it from the barren rock of oppression into a fertile field of dreams through the sweat and blood of many Bull McCabes.

But the widow Kelly has now decided to sell up and "outside forces are attempting to come in and take what is rightfully ours" as the Bull points out.

Yes I know how it all ended, but before anyone jumps on the unappeasable hunger for land angle and who has the moral right to it, remember that we who have opposed the opening (let alone making it the national stadium) have been demonised as much as Keane demonised the Bull McCabe.
Yes this is a fight about the need for change but by god I am on the Bull's side on this one.

I sometimes feel like the Bull who has been denied his conjugal rights for 18 years for having the cheek to shoot a t**ker's donkey. "I put in electric light and bought the television. I built that goddam bathroom for her" but still it is not enough.

How many more changes to our rules and erosion of our values must we face before the field becomes just another souless, commercial, pragmatic nonentity.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

If the terms are right-YES

Full back,
But, if it's a National Stadium, then the three major sporting organisations will have equal call on it, therefore gaelic games will be denied use when they might otherwise have had free reign, therefore how could the terms ever be right in such a circumstance?

By terms I meant that it can be used as the National stadia providing it doesnt interfere with the GAA calendar during the course of the year.
If the rent is used correctly over the years & filtered through the system to grass roots it can only benefit all of us. FFS in Armagh, clubs have to give the county board £4000 a year. To certain clubs this is a big chunk to pay before a ball is even kicked.
With clubs having more spare capital, hopefully facilities will improve, therefore attracting more youngsters.It may sound a bit far fetched but we have to look for the future.
I dont believe this bullsh1t of the GAA promoting other sports by renting CP out.As previous posters have said, while any National team are excelling at a particular sport there will always be an explosion of interest & the media spotlight will shine on them for a period, but not I believe to the detriment of GAA.
The GAA hasnt unduly suffered in recent years as a result of the soccer team doing well in the late 80's early 90's

But, as a National Stadium, it no longer belongs to the GAA, it's the Nation's that's the whole issue, and therefore the GAA cannot dictate unequal terms. It cannot be a half-National or pseudo-National stadium; a National Stadium is the whole hog.

[snatter]

Dubsforsam,

you're on the right track.

For Croker to be the National Stadium, all 4 stakeholders, ie Govt(Nation) / GAA / IRFU / FAI have to contribute.
The three sports bodies must contribute equally.

The existing rental deal is not a basis for Croker to be used on a permanent basis by IRFU / FAI.

I have long advocated tha we should sell it the nation, because once we lost Croker as an exclusive marketing tool, there was absolutely no benefit to us holding onto it, especially when
1. others make more from it at the minute than we do on a per match basis.
2. we are in dire need of developing new clubs and getting new recruits in urban areas.

There are further benefits
a. at present there is no economic case for the GAA to complete the stadium by developing Hill 16 to match the rest of the stadium.
The Govt could use national pride as a reason and bankroll it. Architecturally, and capacity-wise Croker would be amazing.
The Govt could compulsorily purcahse the houses behind the hill, and rebuild equivalent homes in the college grounds (allegedly the Catholic Church once promised the grounds to the nation as compensation for the child abuse settlement). Th e rest of the grounds could be used to rehouse the school (see below) and creeate a new park for Drumcondrians in memory of their beloved Bertie.

b. the Govt could improve access to Croker by relocating the O'Connell schools, recreating the area as a huge plaza for people to congregate before matches.

c. Transport could be improved as well.

d. the FAI get an accurate return on what they hve invested in stadium development, yep, that's right sweet fa.

Negatives:

a. Undoubtably the GPA would exert huge pressure to get its hands on the hundreds of millions delivered to the GAA.

b. IRFU could flog lansdowne for a fortune, and bankroll an expansion programme of its own, eating into GAA strongholds.

[ClosetotheHarte]

Most of us (those of us living in the dark ages, according to some!!!) have moved on regarding our views on Croke Park being opened up but making it the National Stadium is totally out of the question.

[westmayo]

Voted No on this one, the GAA should hold on to exclusive ownership of the stadium.

[darbyo]

In no way should we contemplate the use of Croke Park as the National Stadium, those who suggest that we sell it to the Govt. have'nt thought it through IMO. If we sell it then we lose control of it, simple as that. There would be no preferential treatment of the GAA, Lansdowne road could be sold for €1 billion and the FAI would have as much right to play friendlies there when they wanted as we would club finals or big league games etc.Who knows what the future holds for the various sports but as long as we own Croke Park we have an arena for our games and a symbol of our success

[Star Spangler]

Wtf is a national "stadium" anyhow?  Can anyone name a (real) country that has one of these things i.e. a single pitch used by the international teams of several different sports?  I don't think such a thing exists.

[An Cloch Scoilte]

It was built by the GAA for the GAA.