Croke Park

[Turfsmoke]

OK Muppet, what about:
1.

[Turfsmoke]

OK Muppet, what about:

1. We're now in a position where we can't play the GAA League finals (football and hurling) and can't guarantee the Ladies' final in our national GAA stadium but can accommodate several soccer and rugby games there as well as their training sessions
2. No sign of anything magnanimous in return for the opening up, such as not designing our national games out of the "national" (that's a laugh) stadium at Landsdowne? Or what about RTE giving the national games a weekly slot like what they give rugby in Against the Head? Or giving a decent coverage of the National leagues, even a percentage of the soccer coverage they provide mid-week and week-ends?
3. Do we need to flag up the Tallagh debacle again?
4. When people travel overseas to follow the soccer or rugby teams, it's flagged up as something great. No word of it being unpatriotic and all that guff - but the tune changes if there's any chance that the travelling overseas was because those games chose not to provide themselves with proper stadiums. And somehow the name of the tune then becomes "Blame the GAA"
5. Rugby Union football, a professional business that we compete with never ever had a weekend's profile like they got last week. They'll live off it for years. And we handed it to them. The week before we even gave them a free run by shifting the times of our games. We've conceded our stadium and our timetable. Anything else we'd need to hand over?
6. The "sure it's only temporary" argument is already being attacked and watered down after just two rugby games in Croke Park. And by not sticking to the original spirit of the Congress motion we're at grave risk of there being no new Landsdowne stadium and the cuckoos demanding to stay in the Croke Park nest.

[dublinfella]

OK Muppet, what about:

1. We're now in a position where we can't play the GAA League finals (football and hurling) and can't guarantee the Ladies' final in our national GAA stadium but can accommodate several soccer and rugby games there as well as their training sessions
2. No sign of anything magnanimous in return for the opening up, such as not designing our national games out of the "national" (that's a laugh) stadium at Landsdowne? Or what about RTE giving the national games a weekly slot like what they give rugby in Against the Head? Or giving a decent coverage of the National leagues, even a percentage of the soccer coverage they provide mid-week and week-ends?
3. Do we need to flag up the Tallagh debacle again?
4. When people travel overseas to follow the soccer or rugby teams, it's flagged up as something great. No word of it being unpatriotic and all that guff - but the tune changes if there's any chance that the travelling overseas was because those games chose not to provide themselves with proper stadiums. And somehow the name of the tune then becomes "Blame the GAA"
5. Rugby Union football, a professional business that we compete with never ever had a weekend's profile like they got last week. They'll live off it for years. And we handed it to them. The week before we even gave them a free run by shifting the times of our games. We've conceded our stadium and our timetable. Anything else we'd need to hand over?
6. The "sure it's only temporary" argument is already being attacked and watered down after just two rugby games in Croke Park. And by not sticking to the original spirit of the Congress motion we're at grave risk of there being no new Landsdowne stadium and the cuckoos demanding to stay in the Croke Park nest.

Muppet, I'm opposed to 'selling' CP, but on point 2 and 3, the GAA are getting €1.5m a game from the IRFU and FAI. What 'magnanamus' gesture do you want? Its a commercial transaction. Can you can see why the soccer lads are getting angsty? They are expected to hand over a stadium the GAA don't need in Tallaght for 'goodwill' on top of millions of euro they could be better spending on their own games?

Are you for groundsharing or not? We shouldnt rent CP but are 'entitled' to permanenet and free use of LR and Tallaght? How does that work? When did LR become the 'national' stadium?

We are making a shit load of cash of the soccer and rugby. The only talk of them not completing LR is from within the GAA. There is no basis in reality for point 6, why oh why would they deliberatley not build a stadium? It makes no sense. They cant afford CP prices indefinatley

[lynchbhoy]

how can you 'hand over' something you dont own (or didnt pay for)?

[DUBSFORSAM1]

OK Muppet, what about:

1. We're now in a position where we can't play the GAA League finals (football and hurling) and can't guarantee the Ladies' final in our national GAA stadium but can accommodate several soccer and rugby games there as well as their training sessions
2. No sign of anything magnanimous in return for the opening up, such as not designing our national games out of the "national" (that's a laugh) stadium at Landsdowne? Or what about RTE giving the national games a weekly slot like what they give rugby in Against the Head? Or giving a decent coverage of the National leagues, even a percentage of the soccer coverage they provide mid-week and week-ends?
3. Do we need to flag up the Tallagh debacle again?
4. When people travel overseas to follow the soccer or rugby teams, it's flagged up as something great. No word of it being unpatriotic and all that guff - but the tune changes if there's any chance that the travelling overseas was because those games chose not to provide themselves with proper stadiums. And somehow the name of the tune then becomes "Blame the GAA"
5. Rugby Union football, a professional business that we compete with never ever had a weekend's profile like they got last week. They'll live off it for years. And we handed it to them. The week before we even gave them a free run by shifting the times of our games. We've conceded our stadium and our timetable. Anything else we'd need to hand over?
6. The "sure it's only temporary" argument is already being attacked and watered down after just two rugby games in Croke Park. And by not sticking to the original spirit of the Congress motion we're at grave risk of there being no new Landsdowne stadium and the cuckoos demanding to stay in the Croke Park nest.

Point 1 - To the best of my knowledge this renovating of the pitch would have been required whether rugby/soccer were being played or not....I also remember that not every League final was played in Croke Park before the opening of Croke Park.
Point 2 - Rugby gets a half hour program on a monday and the GAA  is shown on  TG4, Setanta and RTE.....RTE were outbid for the RWC and also lost out on the HC already...
Point 3 - Thats a political decision.
Point 4 - The All-Stars play abroad, GAA competitions run abroad and they use Cricket, Rugby, Soccer grounds - without these organisations there would be no GAA abroad.....most of the people who would be at the rugby the last 2 matches will be the same people who will be in GAA stadiums around the country for the summer...
Point 5 - Rugby would have got as much publicity if they had had to travel to Wales etc for a match - except the difference is that instead of the GAA being seen in such a good light they would have got an awful lot more bad publicity.....
Point 6 - Yes there is talk about it would be nice to play more matches in CP going forward and I personally don't see the problem with that as long as it is satisfactory to the GAA........

What I do have is someone like him putting himself forward as being a true Gael and anyone with a differing opinion isn't......which is certainly what I got from his article...

[true ulster gael]

croke park has now been soiled by rugby union and soon to be association football too.
the only way to restore pride in the gaa is to sell croke park to leinster house and build a new gaa headquarters with the money in the centre of ireland.

[Bogball XV]

croke park has now been soiled by rugby union and soon to be association football too.
the only way to restore pride in the gaa is to sell croke park to leinster house and build a new gaa headquarters with the money in the centre of ireland.

Yeah, a weekend in Birr sounds very appealing!!

As for the League finals in Croker, I've been to a few and tbh, unless you are guaranteed a crowd of at least 40k, Croker is not the place for any game.

And Dublinfella, why do you say 'we' when you refer to the gaa?  I think your cover has been long ago blown

[true ulster gael]

croke park has now been soiled by rugby union and soon to be association football too.
the only way to restore pride in the gaa is to sell croke park to leinster house and build a new gaa headquarters with the money in the centre of ireland.

Yeah, a weekend in Birr sounds very appealing!!

i was thinking maybe athlone.

[magpie seanie]

I think Greenan's article is spot on. The middle grounders who float between all sports don't see the difficulties that face the GAA down the tracks. Things that the like of Greenan will be fighting against while they change to their Rugby or soccer shirts as they please.

[Bogball XV]

i was thinking maybe athlone.

Well, beats Birr I suppose

[AZOffaly]

Well, beats Birr I suppose

It does in it's hole!!

Anyway, everyone knows Ferbane is the heart of Ireland. We could rebuild the GAA Pitch there no bother.

[SammyG]

As an 'outsider', I've been reading this topic with interest. I think a few people seem to have very little grasp on the current situation in both rugby and 'soccer'. I follow both and would love to think that either (or both) could threaten the GAA but it would be nonsense.

My view would be

Rugby

Club rugby is dying on it's arse, with tiny crowds (anywhere from a couple of dozen to a few hundred) and membership falling. Provincial rugby is currently strong but still only attracts crowds of 10 or 12 K with the odd European match getting a bigger crowd. It also involves a significant number of players who arent't Irish.
International rugby has 2 or 3 sell out matches per year and always will have, this doesn't seem to be affected by either the state of the team or the state of 'competing sports'.

Soccer

Club soccer (on both sides of the border) is nearly as bad as club rugby
International soccer tends to fluctuate depending on how the two teams are doing but even at the best of times it will never get the sort of crowds that GAA get.

I don't see much, there, for the GAA to be worried about.

[brokencrossbar1]

I don't see much, there, for the GAA to be worried about.

It's good to see sammy that we have you're support

Shock, horror though we have found something that we both agree on.  I feel people are getting carried away somewhat with the impending collapse of the GAA and the ultimate overrunning of it with the garrison games.  People should realise that the games have never been stronger and if the base infrastructure is improved upon for the smaller clubs then it will only get stronger and stronger.

The current upsurge in interest in rugby has much to do with the excellent team.  This has a finite lifespan and there is not an all conquering underage structure which will produce players a la New Zealand.  Also given the fact that the two game can co-exist being winter/summer games much of the arguments are nullified. 
I cannot comment on the club scene but it would take an organisation like the IRFU 15-20 years of sustained underage development to make a major impact on the GAA, no matter how many games are palyed at Croke Park.

As regards soccer, the domestic game is a shambles both sides of the border.  Although it is 10 years ago, an example of the difference in the north to interest in the games was whenever we palyed Burren in the first round of the club championship in 1996.  The attendance figure for our one game was in excess of all the Irish League games put otgether for the weekend.  In my view soccer has gone backwards since then and apart from the recent successes of NI it is struggling.
7-8 years ago there was a major hope in the south with the likes of Duff and Keane coming through but they have not lived up to the promise shown and I do not think they ever will.  There is not the same talent coming through which will make international soccer prominent in the minds of young kids the way it was for me and my friends in the early 90's.  That was the time that soccer was at its pinnacle after a decent run for NI and then a decent run for the ROI and I would argue that through it the GAA has actually become a stronger organisation.

Playing games at Croke Park will bring more attention initially for both sports but whenever the ticker tape has settled on the whole TV spectacle it will be back to old times in my view and the same people will attend the same games just in a different place.

[ross matt]

Very well said brokencrossbar. There is more danger to the GAA from poor club fixture structures and inconsistent discipline interpretations than there is from rugby or soccer. When the FAI could'nt capitalise on their european and world cup appearances they're hardly going to do so in the Delaney/Staunton era. The IRFU are a much more organised and professional outfit and the current national team is indeed excellent. However it does consist of an exceptional high ratio of talented players hitting the scene at the same time rather than an assembly line of talent being developed and coming through. Most rugby people will tell you that the club scene is struggling badly since the game went professional.

[magpie seanie]

Not going to get into this in depth but losing lads to club rugby isn't really the major concern. It's good athletes like Shane Horgan being (to quote that tool Tom McGurk, from a studio in Croke Park) "plucked from a GAA field" that I worry about. Anyone who thinks there isn't more glamour/attraction with rugby nowadays is just wrong. The provincial sides are far more organised in terms of targetting talent and harnessing it. We had two lads in our club last year who were not allowed play for the minor team because of rugby committments to provincial development squads. Us helping the IRFU (and RTE) spread their gospel by using the jewel in our crown makes no sense.

Ended up going into it a bit, feck it anyway. It always gets me going.