Mayo v Billie Joe, 13th March 2011 McHale Park

[armaghniac]

Armagh is such a wonderful place

Well said there.

There's one fair county in Ireland
With memories so glorious and grand
Where nature has lavished its bounty
On the orchard of Erin's green land

As for the game, from an Armagh perspective BJP in a sweeper role is a useful innovation, which Mayo fans remarked on. Dyas is improving all the while, Vernon is at last finding his role in midfield. Finn Mo continues to attract yellow cards too easily and O'Rourke hasn't really nailed his place on the team. Mackin did well enough, including some good defensive work.
All to play for when a few AI club championship winners come into the squad.

They and the other Armagh people nearby were the best of company on a raw, disappointing but enjoyable day.

True that Armagh and Mayo have rarely played each other. Warm welcome in Castlebar, but the weather was indeed raw.

[mannix]

Afs reckons mayo were woeful, maybe they were but a goal divided  the teams in the end.

[DuffleKing]

A fantastic result away today. the heart shown in the final stages and the fillup it might bring the squad can't be underestimated. no reason why we can't take the kingdom next week - particularly looking at the defence they fielded today.

Good to see the team back to defending properly and they showed no little amount of determination. andy's and to a lesser extent donaghy's form is a worry but class is permenant and the summer's the time for then to be firing on all cylinders.

midfield (charlie, toner, bjp & mackin) excelled today and charlie took a lot more correct decisions than incorrect ones - he's a great athlete and a great asset when he's playing like that.

I seem to be in a minority but i thought mallon and o'rourke functioned reasonably well today in the h forward line, both worked v hard to be available to take the ball form the defence - particularly o'rourke. a lot of armagh's good work was linked through them and that is a very necessary and oft missed facet of the game.

Stevie was great. He's virtually unplayable when he's on form. I was a little disappointed with nippy - maybe because i'm starting to expect more from him.

A very heartening performance and good to see the battling qualities back. onwards and upwards!

[ross4life]

Armagh is such a wonderful place

Well said there.

There's one fair county in Ireland
With memories so glorious and grand
Where nature has lavished its bounty
On the orchard of Erin's green land

You do know folksongs are fueled on high levels of whiskey? anyways was nothing more than a cheap dig by AFS, no mention of Sligo,Longford or is St brigids influencing his thoughts?

[Throw ball]

Never travelled today - first match I have missed in about three years but mid west radio gave a very good commentary. Glad to hear Charlie play so well. I assume the flu that Toner was reported to have led to his half time departure. It sounds that Nippy had a tough time. I think he is a very good player but is not particularly suited to full forward. He can do a job but is not comfortable there. I understand that with players missing it may be out of necessity but I hope it does not affect his confidence down the line as we will need him to play well if we are to progress.
Billy Joe spoke very well when interviewed. I do not particularly like players switching counties but he has given Mayo great service and it would be hard to argue that it is glory hunting that made him switch! He seems a decent sort too. It was interesting to hear that he played a different role today. Management have been criticised for lack of tactics this year by many fans. Seems that the tactics played in the first three games have changed!
Next week should be interesting. As things stand I think Kerry will find Armagh tough to crack. Will be interesting to see who marks the Gooch and who plays the sweeper role. Will Toner move to full back to pick up Donaghy? I think he is made for him. Brendan Donaghy would then be half back and McKeever sweeper with BJP in midfield. Or, will they let Donaghy pick up Donaghy. Another good match up.
Finally it seems some of our Roscommon friends are getting very tetchy. Hope St Brigids are as nervous!

[moysider]

Afs reckons mayo were woeful, maybe they were but a goal divided  the teams in the end.

I got the impression that the Armagh players were kinda surprised how easily they killed out the game. Mayo had the lions share of possession for most of the game but could hardly string a pass together in the last ten minutes when the game was there to be won or lost. Familiar? We chopped and changed but again today the subs changed nothing.
Horan has done well so far imo. But maybe he feels under pressure to come up with a new bill for every show. After Galway he had done enough to consolidate - there was considerable successful development and in a short space of time and a result should have been the priority today. The successes and redevelopment were. Cuniffe at 2, Hallihan/Feeney at 3, Feeney at 5, Caff at 6, Burke at 7, McGar at midfield, Campbell at10, McLoughlin at 12, Doherty at 15. That was a fair bit of development to be going on with. And it was working.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Important two points, which, allied with the two you'd expected from the Galway game, should keep us up.

Very difficult to evaluate the amount of Armagh improvement today given how absolutely woeful Mayo were. They're easily the poorest team we've faced to date in the league. The conditions also had a strong baring on proceedings, with a combination of the wet conditions and a terrible surface leaving players repeatedly struggling to keep their feet. There were handling errors aplenty on both sides too.

Armagh went back to the sweeper system today, using Padden as an auxiliary CHB. Although a much maligned system, I felt that the extra security at the back gave us much better structure and organisation. Swift went into a two man FF line with McDonnell, with Mallon and O'Rourke dropping out to the HF line.

Didn't think it was McEvoy's finest hour. Seemed to sell himself for the Mayo goal, diving far too early and effectively leaving an open goal for the Mayo lad to trickle the ball into. He also committed the cardinal sin of allowing a point bounce over his bar in the second half.

Thought the defence benefited from the ref's lenient approach. They were their usual handsy selves, but the ref was allowing a fair bit of contact in the tackle, which suited us very well.

In the FB line, Moriarty hadn't much to do. Donaghy got turned once or twice but improved as the match webt on. Mallon seemed to come under the most pressure but I think he did alright on a very lively corner forward.

Thought the two wing backs ha very good games. Duffy was full of running and picked up a pile of ball around the middle. His goal was a screamer too. Big improvement from him. Dyas' ability on the ball got us out of a few sticky situations too. McKeever was a bit of a mixed bag. Great point at the end, but handed Mayo two of their own before that with sloppy handy passes. Padden had a strong game in the sweeper role. Got caught out for pace a bit in our FB line for the Mayo goal, but aside from that he was very effective. Repeatedly well positioned to pick up loose ball around the backline.

In midfield Vernon stole the show. Thought he was excellent, continuing a string of strong displays this year. His running can be aimless and counterproductive at times, but today, especially against the breeze, it was a vital asset, getting us away from midfield rucks and and into the Mayo half. His fielding was very good too. Toner was quiet enough before his HT removal, though he did hit a rare point. Don't think he should be overly concerned about losing his place to Lavery, who wasn't particularly impressive in the second half. Fumbled a few balls and seemed a bit laboured.

Mackin had a solid game in the HF line. Had his usual quota of fumbles but also helped out well around the middle and made a lot of good forward runs. Mallon finished off a good move for his goal. Didn't do much else that was that spectacular, kept a few moves ticking along around the HF line. O'Rourke was disappointing. His pace and height don't do him any favours, so he struggles to gather possession at times. We all know he can take a score, but he just doesn't seemed to be able to work himself into scoring positions. I can't remember him having a single shot today.

Swift had a frustrating day. Looked to have the beating of his man, but struggled more than anyone with his handling. He dropped almost everything.

Saving the best til last: Stevie McDonnell. He was immense. A couple of superb points from play, a few more long range frees, perfectly timed lay off for Duffy's goal, even picking up a couple of breaks around the middle. Simply the difference between the two teams.

Grugan and Murtagh came on for the last 10. Murtagh got himself an important point and Grugan hit a couple of wides, but I felt their main contribution was in offering good running outlets at a time when Mayo were closing in. Watters came on in injury time pretty much just to kill a few seconds.

All in all, a better showing from the players and management today, but nothing to get overly excited by. Better than driving home bate though, even the bleak desolation that is Roscommon couldn't bring me down. Confidence should be boosted a bit, and if Cross do the business on Thursday, tails should be up to give Kerry a good crack next weekend.

Not sure Cross' result is going to have any impact at all on a side that may well be entirely made up of non-Cross men. Can't see most of our lads caring much one way or the other. I know I don't.

Fair play to the lads that travelled. I didn't bother myself and very much feel like I've missed out. I know safety is our only real ambition but a victory over Kerry would put us into the shake up for a place in the final!

[Barney]

moyside I'm kinda suprised with how positive you are on that game yesterday.

To me it was very worrying. It was the game we had to win to stay up - now we are in a serious battle that you would expect we will not win. Galway look down, and unless we beat one of Cork or Dublin we may even be relegated by the time it comes to the Monaghan game. I think it was a bad mistake of management to drop two of our most effective players in the league - Hennelly, Richie Feeney and McGarrity - and showed an arrogant and unfounded complacency that we are all too often prone to showing. The performances of each of their replacements can only be described as substandard. 

The good points from the managements point of view is that most of the players that they are bringing in are looking good - Richie Feeney, Campbell, Doherty especially. Cunniffe is doing well in the corner. Cafferkey is growing in the centre. Personally I do not think Hallinan and Gibbons are up to the standards of county football. It is also pleasing that different combinations are being tried. We are not sticking with a team from day 1 in the league and letting that carry us through for the year.

What is worrying are the recurring issues and some failures to address some issues that are ongoing problems -
- there is no discernable gameplan which would short up our weaknesses.
- we continue to start games slowly.
- there is no real effort at finding a reliable and consistent freetaker. It was embarassing the number of fellas that had a go yesterday.
- the failure to close out a game - 1 point down playing against the wind with 10 minutes to go and we bottled it again. Its all too predictable and we must be the easiest team in the country to play against. Someday you would just love to be suprised.

We are an average team and James inherited a group without any foundation or confidence. But the future is looking quite bleak - odd Connacht titles and disappointing qualifier days would appear to be our level.

[highorlow]

We are an average team and James inherited a group without any foundation or confidence. But the future is looking quite bleak - odd Connacht titles and disappointing qualifier days would appear to be our level.

Bring back Johnno, all is forgiven 

[orchard 8195]

Excellant result yesterday, sadly didnt get to match because of my own footie. Did there seem to be any sortve a forward system in place or did the boys just play it as they seen it again? just wondering who outve the cross team people would have on the squad? I for 1 would have hearty, morgan, mckeown, ak, mckenna, tk, sk and jamie clarke. I would prob get rid of all our subs atm apart from lavery and grug as por seems to have no faith in them.

[moysider]

moyside I'm kinda suprised with how positive you are on that game yesterday.

To me it was very worrying. It was the game we had to win to stay up - now we are in a serious battle that you would expect we will not win. Galway look down, and unless we beat one of Cork or Dublin we may even be relegated by the time it comes to the Monaghan game. I think it was a bad mistake of management to drop two of our most effective players in the league - Hennelly, Richie Feeney and McGarrity - and showed an arrogant and unfounded complacency that we are all too often prone to showing. The performances of each of their replacements can only be described as substandard. 

The good points from the managements point of view is that most of the players that they are bringing in are looking good - Richie Feeney, Campbell, Doherty especially. Cunniffe is doing well in the corner. Cafferkey is growing in the centre. Personally I do not think Hallinan and Gibbons are up to the standards of county football. It is also pleasing that different combinations are being tried. We are not sticking with a team from day 1 in the league and letting that carry us through for the year.

What is worrying are the recurring issues and some failures to address some issues that are ongoing problems -
- there is no discernable gameplan which would short up our weaknesses.
- we continue to start games slowly.
- there is no real effort at finding a reliable and consistent freetaker. It was embarassing the number of fellas that had a go yesterday.
- the failure to close out a game - 1 point down playing against the wind with 10 minutes to go and we bottled it again. Its all too predictable and we must be the easiest team in the country to play against. Someday you would just love to be suprised.

We are an average team and James inherited a group without any foundation or confidence. But the future is looking quite bleak - odd Connacht titles and disappointing qualifier days would appear to be our level.

Moi, positive. Not often I m accused of that.

I think basically I was on much the same line as yourself. I dont think we re a million miles away if we get selection and a gameplan right. As I ve said already I wouldn t be for making changes every week for the hell of it. Things usually evolve by degrees anyway.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Am I the only one who thinks Gardiner had a stinker? F'in hell the amount of ball he gave away and the fact the armagh forward seemed to run through him for their first goal seems to me that he's not as good as he was anyway. As well as that, having 3 45 kickers and none of them really able to say for sure I'm the main one leaves us with a lot to ponder next week in Croke Park.

Armagh guys have taken over this thread after todays good win, Question for the Mayo lads.. do you think Horan is doing to much chopping & changing? i suppose he doesn't see the league as a high priority but your not going to strike the right balance with all these changes game after game.

If there's any more lots of chopping and changing, I will be getting worried. We need the team that played against Galway going full tilt next week and it still probably won't be enough. Fair enough there was the U-21 match yesterday but we're out of that now as well so we can concentrate on this now I suppose.

I'd let him chop and change to his heart's content. This is Horan's chance to look at players when losses don't mean anything. If Mayo get relegated to Division 2 what of it? Derry, Donegal, Meath, Kildare and Tyrone are all in Division 2. Doesn't seem that much like falling off a cliff to me.

Horan has to look at different men in different positions. More luck to him. Besides, there are plenty of teams near enough the drop. I wouldn't worry about it at all. They real bullets aren't fired for months yet.

Hopefully we ll be still standing this year when the real bullets are being fired. Chopping and changing is all very fine but he ll learn very little from it. This team still lacks structure and it begins to look like change for the sake of it. What he needs is a setup with shape where players can knit in and out and the team keeps its shape. Cork and Dublin seem to have achieved this and developed big panels. We still seem to be caught up in the cult of the starter.

A win today was achievable and then there would have been an opportunity to try things. I d prefer to treat these games as test matches. Besides there s the opportunity to use subs during games. Winning is also important in building a team. When you lose nobody is happy, starters or lads in tracksuits

Point taken about the importance of winning in building a team. Winning is better than losing. No arguments there.

But Cork and Dublin aren't the best teams to compare with because they've been on the road longer. I think those managers are on their third years, and neither of them took over teams that were as damaged as Mayo. It's early days in this project yet. Wait and see for a bit more.

[IolarCoisCuain]

To be honest I don't quite buy into this mindset of chopping and changing for changes sake. James Horan is a smart man who has been around Mayo football long enough to have a fair idea what his best team is, if he doesn't know it by now, I'd wonder if he ever will.

We in Mayo, are not like the footballers of Tyrone and Kerry that can shite around in the league or the early stages of the championship knowing full well that the real stuff starts after the quarter finals of the championship, we've proven time and time again that we're not built for that sort of road, maybe Horan can miracle our lads into that mindset but I think it runs deeper in us.

We should start by winning the matches we should be winning, and if Horan had his best team out it sounds like we had the winning of that game - otherwise we will be long gone when the rest of the boys are playing with the real bullets. It's the way we are.

Again, like I was saying to Moysider just now, winning is better than losing. But equally I remember us burning up the league last year and Trevor Mortimor being quoted in the paper about every man knowing his position and responsibilities and that all ended in tears. I wouldn't over-rate winning either.

As for the Kerry and Tyrone comparisons, what interests me about their approach isn't that they choose the front door or back door according to their wishes for that particular year. It's that they don't panic when the ship springs a leak. We lose in the league, ok. We lose in the province, ok. We'll see what happens next. All I'm saying is that it's no harm to keep perspective.

[AbbeySider]

To Barney and Moy,
Im going to disagree with the stuff you both mention about consolidation, chopping and changing as from the start of Horans tenure there was a general consensus that the FBD and league this year was to be used to have a proper look at as many players as possible even it it meant losing a few games. Horan even said it himself so a we need a bit of patience. 

The fact is that we are still in an experimental stage and we still are trying to find our best 15. Its totally unfair to new players and older guys trying to hold their place if Mayo try and get a team settled so early in the season and close off their chances off.

Before yesterdays game it would have been unfair not to give the likes of Kilcoyne, Gardiner, Dillon and O Malley their chance to hold their places in the same way it would have been unfair to Parsons, Gibbons, Ruaidhri O Connor, Hallinan and Doherty.

The only thing we do know is that the last 4 years under JOM were completely wasted as we are way behind other counties as regards strength and conditioning as well as not having near enough new players brought in and blodded in JOMs time in charge. I would put us a season or two behind in those regards so we still have so much to work on and find out.

The successes and redevelopment were. Cuniffe at 2, Hallihan/Feeney at 3, Feeney at 5, Caff at 6, Burke at 7, McGar at midfield, Campbell at10, McLoughlin at 12, Doherty at 15. That was a fair bit of development to be going on with. And it was working.

I think it was a bad mistake of management to drop two of our most effective players in the league - Hennelly, Richie Feeney and McGarrity...
The good points from the managements point of view is that most of the players that they are bringing in are looking good - Richie Feeney, Campbell, Doherty especially. Cunniffe is doing well in the corner. Cafferkey is growing in the centre. Personally I do not think Hallinan and Gibbons are up to the standards of county football.

Again I cant agree with those statements and sentiments about any sort of successes.... yet. There is still a lot of unknowns,

Was Cunniffe not roasted by Steven McDonnell, who was in line for man of the match for Armagh?

If you look at Richie Feeney, the games he has played well in, his marker has also played very well in (Galway and Down).

McGarrity has played in spells in and come in and out of games, as Gibbons and Parsons did yesterday.

You both mention McGloughlin, who's man got a goal and bombed forward when he wanted to yesterday

Both myself, Ed McGreal and many others through Ruaidhri O Connor did very well in his first start (http://twitter.com/edmcgreal)

Hallinan was one of Mayos best players in the first half and didnt give either of his men as much as a sniff.
In fact, after Armagh pulling him out of positing in the first half (leaving Cuniffe and Barrett inside) which gave Hallinan room to bomb forward,
not only did they substitute Hallinans marker they moved him inside one on one in the second half which Hallinan cleaned his new man again.

Barney were you watching the same match?

Some of the problems I saw was more to do with handling errors, not taking the right options, giving the ball first time, using the man on the shoulder, not taking on the right shot options, not winning breaks and carrying the ball into tackles, not leaving the 50's to Richie Feeney or the goal keeper.

Ill excuse not starting Aidan O Shea as a target man as the U21s were knocked out on Saturday so I wouldnt have blamed him for having a pint (if he did). Same goes for Hennelly who is a better keeper than O Malley IMHO.

- All of the rest can be worked on.

[mackers]

andy's and to a lesser extent donaghy's form is a worry but class is permenant and the summer's the time for then to be firing on all cylinders.

I think Andy Mallon did quite well yesterday............think he got dragged inside to cover off a loose man to leave Padden on his man for the goal alright but other than that he did well. He got turned early in the second half by his man and a goal looked to be on the cards but he recovered well and just conceded a point. He has set high standards for himself in the past and he appears to be recovering from his nightmare year last year.
Another man that has come under criticism from some posters is McGurn. It is noticeable that we have started to finish our games on the front foot and James Horan remarked on our physicality after the game, a trait that we had lost for a few years, good to hear it being referred to again. Hopefully McGurn has learnt well from last year and the improvement in fitness and conditioning continues.
Tactically our shape was much better yesterday with our defenders not as exposed something that will be of great importance against Gooch and Donaghy.
Assuming there isn't a draw on Thursday, I'd say Hearty and Jamie Clarke will come straight in. It'll be interesting what happens with AK.