Derry v Tyrone - 06/02/11 - Celtic Park

[Fuzzman]

Looks like Mickey is not messing about with that team. This could be a cracker match. Is it on telly or highlights on later?
Bet ya Hub gets a goal.

[imtommygunn]

If I were from Tyrone I'd rather see more new blood than what's on show there.

McCaul, McCarron, Cassidy and Harte really only non AI run starters. McCarron and McCaul have been about a while too. Cassidy and Harte seem the only new finds in the last few years.

Where has Mulgrew gone?Is he just not cutting it? Considering the AI minor wins still not much coming through yet...

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

If I were from Tyrone I'd rather see more new blood than what's on show there.

If we lose: I agree.

If we win: I disagree.

[imtommygunn]

If I were from Tyrone I'd rather see more new blood than what's on show there.

If we lose: I agree.

If we win: I disagree.

Blood more players = do better later in the year IMO. Realistically you have 4 "new" players on and come summer Jordan and the 2 McMahons will be on so you will have at most 1 new player if this is the way forward. Dooher could be on too and you'd have no new players.

I understand you want to win and all but in my view you need new players... The Derry - Tyrone "cauldron" the best place to blood them too IMO.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

If I were from Tyrone I'd rather see more new blood than what's on show there.

If we lose: I agree.

If we win: I disagree.

Blood more players = do better later in the year IMO. Realistically you have 4 "new" players on and come summer Jordan and the 2 McMahons will be on so you will have at most 1 new player if this is the way forward. Dooher could be on too and you'd have no new players.

Thus far in the season to date, it has been the old hands that have stepped up and delivered when we needed them to, so I can see exactly where MH is coming from; and he's never going to be someone who ascribes to a plan that involves losing, irrespective of how inconsequential that loss may be, and regardless of what that might (or might not) lead to further down the line.

It's double-edged, this implacable will-to-win thing, and perhaps it blinds to such a concept as strategic losing.

[imtommygunn]

Thus far in the season to date

What season to date?

You want to beat Derry and they have probably had the better of you in the less meaningful games so maybe that's what it is.

It just makes me wonder from the outside looking in at the Tyrone team(s) over the last few years where all the good underage players have gone. Don't get me wrong I know not all good underage players transfer to seniors but there barely seem to be any making the breakthrough??

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

What season to date?

Mc Kenna Cup. I know, I know, rather inconsequential, nonetheless they were there to step up.

It just makes me wonder from the outside looking in at the Tyrone team(s) over the last few years where all the good underage players have gone. Don't get me wrong I know not all good underage players transfer to seniors but there barely seem to be any making the breakthrough??

Fair point, but there's a good smattering on the bench, and I'd hope Mickey has an eye on the lads who did well for the Unis, like Mattie Donnelly.

[Over the Bar]

I saw Cathal McCarron in the gym the other day and couldn't get over the size of him and built like a the proverbial! 

[ONeill]

It's sort of a sin to agree with what tommygunn is saying but I can't help it. Two seasons running we've seen Tyrone in the height of the summer caught short with the old heads starting. I was really hoping to see 3-4 newbies given a good run at the league. Perhaps they will yet.

[imtommygunn]

Basically every 1 of that team is proven. You could argue Peter Harte but I think he showed enough last year. I think he will turn out to be a cracker. Players like Mulgrew, Coney and other boys like that just haven't appeared to have cut it.

I would imagine Niall McKenna will make it too. Doesn't seem much coming through in terms of scoring threats?

Also I would say that the Tyrone team, when they go, will basically go en masse. Look at, for example, the half back line. Jordan plus Gormley and McMenamim all wrong side of 30 or if not damn close. Harte not far behind. They could all retire same year then you have no tried half backs. (McNabb / Sean O'Neill could be quite good but untried and then you have no centre)

Even in say 3 years time hard to see a lot of that personnel around.

If you look at ulster football in all counties you would have to honestly say that the standard of all the teams over the last few years have dropped significantly.(Antrim aside who let's be honest could get no worse! Maybe(maybe) Monaghan too) Tyrone have too - you can't sustain as high energy a game as they did year on year  unless you keep bringing in new players.

[loughshore lad]

Hard to argue with imtommygun on the Tyrone selection alright.

Would have been nice to see a new face in the half back line in particular as thats one area of the field I think Tyrone could do with introducing a new face.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Basically every 1 of that team is proven. You could argue Peter Harte but I think he showed enough last year. I think he will turn out to be a cracker. Players like Mulgrew, Coney and other boys like that just haven't appeared to have cut it.

I would imagine Niall McKenna will make it too. Doesn't seem much coming through in terms of scoring threats?

Ah feck, I'm all done out for pessimism for the year

At best: this is the very last chance for the school of 2003, the very last, and if the heights can't be scaled this year like they weren't in 2009 & 2010 then we're into wholesale incomings and outgoings, inescapably. But... there's someone who's better qualified than I (or we) to make that call, much better qualified.

[imtommygunn]

Basically every 1 of that team is proven. You could argue Peter Harte but I think he showed enough last year. I think he will turn out to be a cracker. Players like Mulgrew, Coney and other boys like that just haven't appeared to have cut it.

I would imagine Niall McKenna will make it too. Doesn't seem much coming through in terms of scoring threats?

Ah feck, I'm all done out for pessimism for the year

At best: this is the very last chance for the school of 2003, the very last, and if the heights can't be scaled this year like they weren't in 2009 & 2010 then we're into wholesale incomings and outgoings, inescapably. But... there's someone who's better qualified than I (or we) to make that call, much better qualified.

Ha yes who could argue with Micky Harte.

Very possible he, and the players, see it as last chance to win the AI with this "batch".

Stranger things have happened. Cork too athletic for them however if Kerry put Cork out , which I think they will assuming the draw gets to this, then Kerry v Tyrone usually only goes one way. Dublin may have beat Tyrone but IMO Tyrone kicked themselves out of it and could , had Kavanagh / Mulligan brought shooting boots, won by a bit.

Maybe not this year, although injuries will have a large bearing on this, but soon I think youse are in big trouble. Maybe other people realise this and want to make the most of what you've got. Why more new players haven't been blooded I just don't understand because there *should* be some serious talent in Tyrone...

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Maybe not this year, although injuries will have a large bearing on this, but soon I think youse are in big trouble. Maybe other people realise this and want to make the most of what you've got. Why more new players haven't been blooded I just don't understand because there *should* be some serious talent in Tyrone...

There's a 27 year hoodoo to be broken in Celtic Park on Sunday. It wouldn't surprise me if MH has picked this team solely to put that ghost to bed, but withholding a more expansive eye regarding the younger lads for games thereafter.

He may be thinking (like I would know), that he'll have more of a chance with the newer lads if we can start on a positive footing, as opposed to merely continuing a rather sorry losing streak, and that if those new lads were involved in that (possible loss) it might be a critical confidence-breaker. If we lose with the older heads it won't really be that big a deal, comparitively.

[loughshore lad]

Basically every 1 of that team is proven. You could argue Peter Harte but I think he showed enough last year. I think he will turn out to be a cracker. Players like Mulgrew, Coney and other boys like that just haven't appeared to have cut it.

I would imagine Niall McKenna will make it too. Doesn't seem much coming through in terms of scoring threats?

Ah feck, I'm all done out for pessimism for the year

At best: this is the very last chance for the school of 2003, the very last, and if the heights can't be scaled this year like they weren't in 2009 & 2010 then we're into wholesale incomings and outgoings, inescapably. But... there's someone who's better qualified than I (or we) to make that call, much better qualified.

Ha yes who could argue with Micky Harte.

Very possible he, and the players, see it as last chance to win the AI with this "batch".

Stranger things have happened. Cork too athletic for them however if Kerry put Cork out , which I think they will assuming the draw gets to this, then Kerry v Tyrone usually only goes one way. Dublin may have beat Tyrone but IMO Tyrone kicked themselves out of it and could , had Kavanagh / Mulligan brought shooting boots, won by a bit.

Maybe not this year, although injuries will have a large bearing on this, but soon I think youse are in big trouble. Maybe other people realise this and want to make the most of what you've got. Why more new players haven't been blooded I just don't understand because there *should* be some serious talent in Tyrone...

In theory given the fact there were a few AI minor successes in the last decade then yes there possibly should be some serious talent in Tyrone but the step up is extremely difficult particularly given the quality of player they are trying to displace, you were asking about Mulgrew earlier and he is a pertinent example of this.  Another example would be Penrose, he found the going very tough in his first 3 or 4 years on the scene but is now one of the first names on the team sheet.  The 2008 minor squad had a number of really excellent minors - Gavin Teague, Ronan McNabb, Miall McKenna, Peter Harte and Kyle Coney for example yet so far only Harte has pushed himself into the serious reckoning. 

Just how good the core of players were that backboned the senior team in the last decade will only be truly realised when they go, Mickey Harte is acutely aware of how good they were/are and his belief in them means younger players find it difficult to break into the team.