County Championship formats

The Moon is Down · January 06, 2011, 06:09:01 PM

Since the good ol' knockout system was consigned to the bin, countless different formats have been introduced around the country for the running of county championships. What is currently in vogue in your county and is it considered fair and equitable? I sometimes think the 's**t or bust' approach was as good as any!

Don Johnson · January 06, 2011, 06:32:48 PM

Armagh and Down are both straight knockout.

Sure,hit it yourself Ref! · January 06, 2011, 06:42:55 PM

So is Tyrone. The best way for it IMO. Makes championship football count for something!

The Moon is Down · January 06, 2011, 08:06:06 PM

That's interesting - I didn't think the straight knock-out was still being used anywhere. I know in Connacht there are league systems in place in all counties except Galway which has a convoluted qualifier method. Also leagues in Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Dublin, I think...
I wonder is there any correlation between system used and success or otherwise of the respective county teams. Continuing with straight knockout doesn't appear to have done the three northies much harm...

ck · January 06, 2011, 11:46:01 PM

Quote from: The Moon is Down on January 06, 2011, 08:06:06 PM
That's interesting - I didn't think the straight knock-out was still being used anywhere. I know in Connacht there are league systems in place in all counties except Galway which has a convoluted qualifier method. Also leagues in Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Dublin, I think...
I wonder is there any correlation between system used and success or otherwise of the respective county teams. Continuing with straight knockout doesn't appear to have done the three northies much harm...

Yep the Sligo system is poor as it only takes interest as the knock out stages approach. The Donegal system play two legs in the 1st round home and away if you win one each then it goes to a 3rd game. After that its straight knock out. It basically favours the best team. Not real cship for me.

Celt_Man · January 07, 2011, 12:52:04 AM

Cavan has gone though three different championship types in the last few years..

About 7 years ago, there were 2 groups of 7 - everyone played each other once and first in Group A played fourth in Group B and so on in the Quarter finals...

Then we had 7 first round games winner went through to Quarters, losers of first round played off until one remained and took the final quarter final place...

Now we have fours of three or four, everyone plays each other in the group once then top two go into quarters, while bottom teams playoff to avoid relegation....

Probably favour the last and current way, far less waiting around for the business end of things

Zapatista · January 07, 2011, 08:17:46 AM

Quote from: The Moon is Down on January 06, 2011, 08:06:06 PM
That's interesting - I didn't think the straight knock-out was still being used anywhere. I know in Connacht there are league systems in place in all counties except Galway which has a convoluted qualifier method. Also leagues in Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Dublin, I think...
I wonder is there any correlation between system used and success or otherwise of the respective county teams. Continuing with straight knockout doesn't appear to have done the three northies much harm...

MAybe so but it may be tough on clubs. The kO Championship demands a lot of clubs with no second chance. The battle with fixtures between club and county can be fierce. Clubs can often wait months between championship games. You could have a club out of the Championship May with the championship not finishing to Oct. This has a knock on effect on the league too with lower placed clubs having little to play for.

I think KO is always the best format for the competition but it comes at a price.

Hound · January 07, 2011, 10:40:04 AM

Quote from: The Moon is Down on January 06, 2011, 08:06:06 PM
That's interesting - I didn't think the straight knock-out was still being used anywhere. I know in Connacht there are league systems in place in all counties except Galway which has a convoluted qualifier method. Also leagues in Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Dublin, I think...I wonder is there any correlation between system used and success or otherwise of the respective county teams. Continuing with straight knockout doesn't appear to have done the three northies much harm...

In Dublin, league and championship are totally separate competitions. Generally senior teams are in Divisions 1 and 2, Inter teams in division 3 and 4 - but it has happened that teams have got promoted to Division 1 while playing (and failing to win) the Intermediate championship. And likewise there are teams who have been relegated to AFL 3 but still retain senior championship status.

Division 1 is a bit of a mess because the 30+ lads on the intercounty panel usually play less than 50% of the 15 league games. Likewise lads on the U21 panel miss plenty of club league games. At Div 1 level its very much treated as not nearly as important as the championship.

The senior championship has a backdoor system for the first couple of rounds.

Lone Shark · January 07, 2011, 10:48:18 AM

Offaly's two championships are run on the basis of two groups of six. It used to be the same as Kilkenny's hurling championship in that first and second in each group got straight into the quarter finals, third played fourth and fifth played sixth in last sixteen games while the 5th vs 6th matches doubled up as relegation semi finals.

Then Tullamore won the 2009 hurling championship despite failing to win any of their five group games when they essentially treated the round robin stage like a league, and they changed it to the top four get into quarters, and the bottom two in each group play the relegation semis.

Now next year someone will get shafted because a strong team will put out a weakened side in the latter stages and then they'll change it again.

Straight knockout is okay as long as it's not mixed with any of the modern phenomena of county players missing 70% of league matches, or championship fixtures less than a week after a county fixture. Otherwise it's not really fair.

The existence of so many dual clubs makes it very tough. Ferbane/Belmont, Shamrocks, Tullamore and Rynaghs would all be senior in both codes while Ballycumber, Erin Rovers, Clara would all have players playing intermediate hurling as well as senior football. The fixture list is a mess but it's hard to do any better in that environment.

thewobbler · January 07, 2011, 10:56:05 AM

If you've any desire to give your County team the best chance of success, then a straight knockout system in the club championship is the only way forward. I love the club game, but if a Senior Intercounty footballer is expected to give 150% effort to train and perform 6-7 times in club championship games during July and August, then his county commitments have to fluster.

Banana Man · January 07, 2011, 11:23:18 AM

this is news to me, i thought everyone just had a straight knockout, didn't realise not only is it not in the majority, it is a minority, championship football without the knockout to me is an alien concept, it took long enough to get used to the qualifier system in intercounty!

neilthemac · January 07, 2011, 11:56:11 AM

I always think of the players in this situation, training 6-7 months just for one game?

It is just unfair to have a straight knockout.
Every team can have one bad day and some sort of a round robin is needed.

Remember also that the leagues in many counties are merely shadow leagues with no county players, or county U21 players involved for many games

andoireabu · January 07, 2011, 09:17:43 PM

In our championship a straight draw is made and played. Winners in the games are then drawn against each other as are the losers. In the losers game its win or bust. You lose, you're out. If you win you go on tho play the loser of the winners game. In the winners game the winner is through to the quarter final while the loser plays the winner of the losers game. Still with me? The winning loser then plays the losing winner to see who gets the other quarter spots. Straight knock out after that.

Means each team gets three games and you have to win two of them to get to the quarters.

Milltown Row2 · January 07, 2011, 09:31:22 PM

Straight Knockout is the best way. Some times the best team can get knocked out on a wet Friday night because they failed to respect the elements and the team they were playing. We have played straight knockout for the past few years and its worked for us

Hurling in Antrim has tried various formats and some work and some don't. As a team that does not have a serious chance of winning the senior title we have preferred the round robin styles, as this gives us more games at that level. The only draw back is the fixture congestion that can happen when games are drawn.

I like the Galway and Kilkenny formats. bring relegation into the equation is great. means team try hard in the league to get top finish and clubs are training hard till the end of the season.

Rossfan · January 07, 2011, 09:45:32 PM

In Ros the Senior and Inter have 4 groups of 3. Top 2 go to Quarters while the 4 bottom teams play to avoid relegation.
Points difference ,or highest scorer where differences are equal decides placings giving some interesting games in the last rounds !!!
A few years ago in an Inter game "Team A" were 2 points behind with time almost up . If it ended like that "Team B" would go through. If Team A could get 1 point back before the end then they would go through. Last desparate attack and the eejits went for a goal which of course brought a great save from Team B's keeper.

Didnt use the real names as i don't want to embarass someone