Indo - RTE bashed over GAA coverage

[ONeill]

Agree with the preview or review show. The Sunday night shows during the League were heavily weighted on two Divison One games and the odd Division two game. I'd rather see as many highlights of all four divisions and less banal semi-circle talk. A snappy preview show would be welcome too, on a Thurs or Friday. None of this stale 3-men-in-empty-studio crap. A decent 50-min preview of all matches with injuries, milestones, permutations, brief interviews, cheerful graphics etc narrated by some mad chirpy hoor sitting behind a desk.

Never really noticed a lack of live games.

[dublinfella]

He has a fair point, RTE's coverage is substandard given the viewing figures and widespread interest in the games. Christ even the diabolical 125th anniversary Late Late show was one of the highest viewed Late Late's of the year. How there isn't a mid week preview show during the league and championship is beyond me. And why haven't RTE paid enough to get the league games, or at least put more effort into their league highlights package?

I think you have spectacularly missed the point.

RTE want to show more live games. The GAA refused to let them. And the DCB chair uses the annual report to criticise RTE for then not showing enough live games...

I agree on the lack of a highlights show, and like it or not MNS is the template for what can be done. But the FAI negotiaited that as part of their deal with RTE, the GAA didn't.

RTE are not the villans of the piece here.

[lynchbhoy]

He has a fair point, RTE's coverage is substandard given the viewing figures and widespread interest in the games. Christ even the diabolical 125th anniversary Late Late show was one of the highest viewed Late Late's of the year. How there isn't a mid week preview show during the league and championship is beyond me. And why haven't RTE paid enough to get the league games, or at least put more effort into their league highlights package?

I think you have spectacularly missed the point.

RTE want to show more live games. The GAA refused to let them. And the DCB chair uses the annual report to criticise RTE for then not showing enough live games...

I agree on the lack of a highlights show, and like it or not MNS is the template for what can be done. But the FAI negotiaited that as part of their deal with RTE, the GAA didn't.

RTE are not the villans of the piece here.

I think Costello is incorrect with his timing - but right in that rte when they had tv rights could and should have had a weekly highlights show - maybe along the lines of what oneill has said.
rte are not the 'villans' now but were guilty of this up until they lost tv rights to tv3.

but
do rte not 'own' tg4 ?
if thats the case then surely they can re-use highlights of the games tg4 show for a weekly show...
can even have a weekly show without current highlights - like the utv ulster championship midweek show used to have ...presenter and pundits from around the province discussing the previous and next matc.

[dublinfella]

I think Costello is incorrect with his timing - but right in that rte when they had tv rights could and should have had a weekly highlights show - maybe along the lines of what oneill has said.
rte are not the 'villans' now but were guilty of this up until they lost tv rights to tv3.

but
do rte not 'own' tg4 ?
if thats the case then surely they can re-use highlights of the games tg4 show for a weekly show...
can even have a weekly show without current highlights - like the utv ulster championship midweek show used to have ...presenter and pundits from around the province discussing the previous and next matc.

I think you are missing my point slightly. Its wildely innapropriate for a senior offical of the GAA, in an offical GAA publiication to talk about soccer's commercial arrangement with RTE.

The reason there is no highlights programme for the GAA, is unlike Rugby and Soccer, who have them, the GAA didn't ask for one. Thats not Montrose's fault per say. The LoI is shown on 3 channells and international games on 2, but RTE have an overarching right to show all highlights. That core piece is missing from the GAA jigsaw.

I agree there should be a highlights show, but the fact that the GAA sold their rights to 4 different stations makes that job exremely difficult. What could RTE show in March?

RTE don't 'own' TG4. And from TG4's/TV3's/Setanta's perspective, why would they pay a lot of money for rights to a competition and then hand over the reel to RTE for nowt for a highlights show? Thats not how the world works. An arrangement needs to be negotiated either by RTE at a cost with the other stations, or by the GAA when negotiating with all the tv companies.

The GAA made a conscious decision to spread the competitions around 4 channels to increase market penetration. The price of that is it becomes very complex to do a simple highlights show throughout the year.

So Costello needs to address his issues to Croker, not Montrose, and leave other sports out of it.

Imagine the apoplexy on here if a senior FAI official used an annual report to have a dig at the GAA?

[lynchbhoy]

sorry chap, I think you are mixing things up a wee bit.
Your last line says there would be a hubub if a loi guy was to criticise the GAA.
you obv mean a loi guy critiscising RTE (not the GAA 0 as this is the case with costello.
he critiscises RTE not soccer.
he has a point.
I also think that its not the GAA's job to ask RTE to create their own tv programmes on GAA.
As one of the most played and actively supported/watched few sports in the country, its hardly rocket science for the planners in RTE to figure out what kind of sports programme might appeal to the masses of tv viewers/licence fee payers out there - what these large numbers might get in terms of advertising revenue from such large numbers tuning into programmes.
If this means they have to pay a wee bit for sports footage - so be it, they will easily recoup this.
as a tv licence payer , and a tax payer, it would be in my interests and many like me for rte to actually get off their semi state/civil servicey type erses and engage their brains to try and make money from the advertising revenue they would get from a large GAA loving captive audience if they had a midweek GAA programme and if it had rows with spillane et all - then RTE and taxpayer/licencepayer would be the ones laughing all the way to the bank.

btw who owns Tg4 then? Ithought our tv licence pays for them - certainly though I heard something about this in yesterdays budget news...

costello should have to say anything about this, a pro-active rte would pre-empt this. but they are another useless semi-state.

[Donkeywalloper]

I think Costello is incorrect with his timing - but right in that rte when they had tv rights could and should have had a weekly highlights show - maybe along the lines of what oneill has said.
rte are not the 'villans' now but were guilty of this up until they lost tv rights to tv3.

but
do rte not 'own' tg4 ?
if thats the case then surely they can re-use highlights of the games tg4 show for a weekly show...
can even have a weekly show without current highlights - like the utv ulster championship midweek show used to have ...presenter and pundits from around the province discussing the previous and next matc.

I think you are missing my point slightly. Its wildely innapropriate for a senior offical of the GAA, in an offical GAA publiication to talk about soccer's commercial arrangement with the GAA.

The reason there is no highlights programme for the GAA, is unlike Rugby and Soccer, who have them, the GAA didn't ask for one. Thats not Montrose's fault per say. The LoI is shown on 3 channells and international games on 2, but RTE have an overarching right to show all highlights. That core piece is missing from the GAA jigsaw.

I agree there should be a highlights show, but the fact that the GAA sold their rights to 4 different stations makes that job exremely difficult. What could RTE show in March?

RTE don't 'own' TG4. And from TG4's/TV3's/Setanta's perspective, why would they pay a lot of money for rights to a competition and then hand over the reel to RTE for nowt for a highlights show? Thats not how the world works. An arrangement needs to be negotiated either by RTE at a cost with the other stations, or by the GAA when negotiating with all the tv companies.

The GAA made a conscious decision to spread the competitions around 4 channels to increase market penetration. The price of that is it becomes very complex to do a simple highlights show throughout the year.

So Costello needs to address his issues to Croker, not Montrose, and leave other sports out of it.

Imagine the apoplexy on here if a senior FAI official used an annual report to have a dig at the GAA?

Excellent reply dublinfella

[dublinfella]

sorry chap, I think you are mixing things up a wee bit.
Your last line says there would be a hubub if a loi guy was to criticise the GAA.
you obv mean a loi guy critiscising RTE (not the GAA 0 as this is the case with costello.
he critiscises RTE not soccer.
he has a point.

I disagree to a point. Regardless of who he is criticising, and we both agree its RTE in the main, he is having a pop at them for implementing a deal the GAA insisted on. Thats either ignorance or very disenginious.

I also think that its not the GAA's job to ask RTE to create their own tv programmes on GAA.

Meanwhile back in the real world... Of course it is, the GAA can't sit on their arses and expect the world to fall onto their laps. Rugby and soccer have equal claims to airtime and are pushing it. The GAA are sitting around waiting for RTE to find the air time and money for a magazine show? Thats not how the real world works

If the GAA want a highlights programme, they need to do what other sports have done and organise the legals and pitch it to RTE

As one of the most played and actively supported/watched few sports in the country, its hardly rocket science for the planners in RTE to figure out what kind of sports programme might appeal to the masses of tv viewers/licence fee payers out there - what these large numbers might get in terms of advertising revenue from such large numbers tuning into programmes.
If this means they have to pay a wee bit for sports footage - so be it, they will easily recoup this.

But the core problem with that line is that RTE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHTS TO SHOW GAA HIGHLIGHTS. You can't escape that simple fact.

What you are asking RTE to do is pay the GAA, pay the other broadcasters, pay the presenters, researchers, cameramen, technicians off their own back. Won't happen in this environment.

as a tv licence payer , and a tax payer, it would be in my interests and many like me for rte to actually get off their semi state/civil servicey type erses and engage their brains to try and make money from the advertising revenue they would get from a large GAA loving captive audience if they had a midweek GAA programme and if it had rows with spillane et all - then RTE and taxpayer/licencepayer would be the ones laughing all the way to the bank.

Subjective. I recall the previous highlights shows being cancelled.

btw who owns Tg4 then? Ithought our tv licence pays for them - certainly though I heard something about this in yesterdays budget news...

Was part of RTE, now is standalone.

costello should have to say anything about this, a pro-active rte would pre-empt this. but they are another useless semi-state.

Cop out. The GAA have to be proactive and get out there and lobby like the rest of the world.

[lynchbhoy]

while I would agree that money would have to be paid if due for highlights and footage etc
I find your idea of what RTE - a semi state shoul dbe doing as their job strange.

Yes maybe the GAA could and should push it more
BUT
as a semi state and profits and revenue generation the be all and end all to such an entity
the onus is on RTE and their programme creators to think of shows and ideas that would bring in extra revenue.
the jim stynes prog last night would have had a load of GAA fans watching. the advertisers would have been delighted with this.
You dont understand commercial world if you think its not RTE's truck to think of the ideas/concepts and realise that the GAA public are a massive lump of people in the 32 counties of Ireland and use this to create a TV programme to serve up to them and open up new income stream from advertisments at the same time.
As UTV proved, you dont need actual footage. You can wing it using older footage of players from previous bought for archives.

[dublinfella]

Lychboy, there are a thousand organisations and groups in RTE's ear about ideas for programmes.

The point here is the FAI and IRFU asked and got. The GAA didn't. In fact the GAA demanded less coverage. Thats the reality.

Whether RTE should or shouldn't proactively be thinking of revenue generating shows is irrelevant to this debate, they are a public service broadcaster first and foremost - the position of today is RTE do not have a mandate from the GAA to show a highlights programme - they don't own the rights to anything other then the Championship.

Even if RTE did decide that it was a good idea, they cannot legally produce the show being demanded. It is up to the GAA to sort that mess out.

[lynchbhoy]

Know what you are saying chap, but commercially that doesn't stack up!
I know semi state civil service mentality isn't proactive but that's no excuse.

Gaa are a huge Market in Ireland
And
Rte already 'own' footage and for small fee and agreement from Gaa
Can get more and whatever permission!
To generate advertising revenue this should be their aim from the tax payer and licence fee layers perspective!!

[dublinfella]

Know what you are saying chap, but commercially that doesn't stack up!
I know semi state civil service mentality isn't proactive but that's no excuse.

Gaa are a huge Market in Ireland
And
Rte already 'own' footage and for small fee and agreement from Gaa
Can get more and whatever permission!
To generate advertising revenue this should be their aim from the tax payer and licence fee layers perspective!!

I don't disagree that commercially the idea seems sound - if the LoI can make RTE money, then you can be sure the AIC can.

But, at the risk of repeating myself, if the GAA want a highlights magazie programme to plug the 'product', they need to get their act together and make a pitch to RTE. They clearly aren't going to come to the mountain, for whatever reason.

My core point I suppose is that the reason isn't an intrinsic dislike of the GAA and Gaelic games. The GAA have made it difficult for them, so they filled the space with soccer and rugby. They asked for more games, were told no, and its churlish of the GAA, even if it is only officer, to criticise them for an arrangement the GAA pressed.

[lynchbhoy]

Partially right, but this only addresses live games and not the weekly programme that would easily be available and the only sensible and commercially viable option here.
Maybe Costello has a point, certainly from a tax payer licence fee payer perspective.
RTe just not doing their job then. Not the only semi state or public sector department guilty of that!

[magpie seanie]

The biggest issue here, despite Costellos hamfisted attempt at highlighting it is the standard of coverage RTE gives gaelic games versus soccer and rugby. Soccer and rugby coverage is quite good. GAA coverage is very poor by any standards and definitely by comparison.

While it is true that TG4 has the rights for live league matches RTE has never shown any interest in covering the National Leagues on television bar a pitiful effort called Sunday Sport.

So overall Costello has a point even if he didn't make it in the best way. soccerboy doesn't go into that level of analysis, he just wants a pop at Costello for daring to oppose the Govt (whose judgement has proved to be ?) giving a free stadium for a company that failed a few times but we wouldn't want to go down that raod again would we. Whoops, I kinda played the man a bit there.

[Zulu]

I think you have spectacularly missed the point.

Not at all, I simply disagree with your attempts to turn Costello's comments into an attack on soccer, here's your opening gambit...

A legitimate gripe over soccer and rugby overtaking gaelic games in RTE's listings or inane nonsense from Costello considering it was the GAA requested that RTE show less live games and sold the League rights elsewhere?

Now lets look at Costello's actual comments as reported in the paper, first off he makes a factual comment about the increasing coverage for both soccer and rugby....

"RTE screened 18 domestic soccer games this year, a figure that is set to increase to 33 by 2013. Likewise, rugby will eclipse Gaelic games in terms of live coverage, with our national broadcaster contracted to show Six Nations, autumn Tests as well as All-Ireland and Magners League," writes Costello in his annual report.

....so he states some comparative facts but he attacks neither sporting organisation for this and why would he?

Next he states that...

"The attitude towards Gaelic games in Montrose seems to be that our national games are only played during the months of June, July, August and September."

.......which indicates he has nothing against the coverage given to other sports but feels that RTE could do more during the months when championship isn't played. I would agree with him here as the national league could get better coverage from RTE, either in live games or an improved highlights package. He follows this with acknowleding that it was the GAA that wanted less live games during the championship but underlines that he is referring to the rest of the year....

He accepts that it was a Croke Park decision to cut back on live championship coverage, but argues that RTE is not giving Gaelic games due attention for the rest of the year.

"I am aware of recent comments by the Ard Stiurthoir (Paraic Duffy) that the GAA were overdoing the live coverage. However, it's my contention that GAA supporters are not getting a fair deal from the national broadcaster."

.......but that doesn't sit with your attempts to turn his comments into soccer bashing. Finally the paper tells us that...

Costello is particularly critical of RTE's failure to carry a preview-style programme throughout the season.

....so how you can come up with statements like

Regardless of who he is criticising, and we both agree its RTE in the main, he is having a pop at them for implementing a deal the GAA insisted on. Thats either ignorance or very disenginious.

Clearly it is you who is being ignorant or disenginious. Finally I find it hard to believe that the GAA don't want a highlights or preview show so how do you know they haven't asked for it?