Worst Irish person in History

[Peter Solan the Great]

The vote just looks like a bandwagon to bash Bertie, and thats down to the current economic climate.

Worst person in my book is Conor Cruise O'Brien.

No this thread is just a bandwagon to bash PSTG.

[Banana Man]

I suggest you actually read the Treaty debates: http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/en.toc.D.T.html

Everyone with half a brain knew before the Treaty negotiations even began that a republic was never going to be on the table and that some form of partition was inevitable. The establishment of the Boundary Commission under the terms of the Treaty lead most to believe that the transfer of land from the Northern Irish state to the Free State would eventually leave NI as too small an entity to remain on its own. If Collins had been alive in 1925 when the Boundary Commission commenced it's safe to say it wouldn't have turned into the farce that it was with MacNeil getting the run around and the report eventually never getting published.

The Civil War was fought mainly over the issue of 'dominion status' as represented by the oath of allegiance (which ironically De Valera managed to remove from the constitution when he came to power in the 1930s).

To be honest Donnelly I don't even know what you are trying to say. You start of by firing a broadside at me telling me to actually read the treaty debates, as if I had referred to them at some point when I haven't. Then as you continue to talk you back up what I say in that the treaty divided the island and left us in the north on our own. So are you disagreeing or agreeing, do you even know?

You stated that Collins "led the Irish Army against those that opposed the treaty and faced them down because they dared not to let northern nationalists die in a pogrom state."

That is simply not true as the majority of those who fought on the anti-Treaty side in the Civil War were opposed to the oath rather than partition. Partition was not the issue (because of the Boundary Commission's establishment) which you would realise if you actually read the Treaty debates.

To say that Collins "signed away the North" is nonsense. How can the man be blamed for the failure of the Boundary Commission when he was dead long before 1925?

Don't agree with you on this. You want me to read the treaty debates and take that as a fair representation of the majority of those who fought in the civil war.

You are holding up this Boundary Commission as if it would have been the saviour for everyone, it was a cop out. You think Collins could have negotiated taking more land from the Unionists and British Govt, I would love to know why you are putting so much faith in a fella who's track record (i.e. the original treaty) was at best poor.

When the south realised it might actually result in losing more land they pulled out. The boundary commission was never going to amount to anything and to use this to deflect from him signing is over is absolute nonsense.

We'll agree to disagree then.

I would maintain that Collins would feature prominently on this list had the Treaty not been signed. Do you think the threat of 'terrible and immediate war' from Lloyd George was a bluff? The British had lost nearly a million men in the preceeding decade - do you think they would have given a second thought about wiping out the Irish?

I'll ask one final question. If partition was such a big issue for those on the anti-Treaty side at the time then why was most of the fighting in the Civil War concentrated in Kerry, West Cork and Limerick - three counties that are not exactly close to the six disputed counties in the north?

I can accept that from the perspective of someone in the 26 counties had collins not signed it you would want him on the list. I am looking at it from the perspective of someone in the 6 counties and that is why I believe he should be on it. It's all about empathy and putting yourself in the other's shoes.

I don't see how proximity to the border would determine anyone's outlook on a national question.  By that rationale you are arguing that the onus is on people in the border counties to fight for fellow countrymen because they live a few miles closer. Just because they reside in south munster doesn't equate to their concerns for fellow countrymen carrying less weight.

[mannix]

 Bertie ahern will go down,rightly or wrongly as the one that allowed the pouring of petrol on the fire.

[ziggysego]

Reeling in the Years 2006

Go to 5:11.

Bertie Ahern speaking about Financial warnings...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3n2sFdIrs

[Kerry Mike]

Can ye add Peter Canavan or Mickey Harte to the list so us downtrodden Kerry folk have something to vote on

[ziggysego]

Can ye add Peter Canavan or Mickey Harte to the list so us downtrodden Kerry folk have something to vote on

Only if we can vote for Pat Spillane

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Must be great living out in Mayo where the only time you seen orangemen was when they came to help Capt. Boycott. Fact of the matter is he left us to rot in the north and if it was available for your poll he would get my vote every time.

He doesn't speak for us. In fact he doesn't even seem to speak for FG either. I'd say he is a Michael Ring man.

Imagine two Castlebar men up on the list of Irelands worst. There could be a good few more names on that list. At the races of Castlebar, the natives hid in their houses while the men of  Aughagower, Kilalla and the rest of Mayo fought for Irelands freedom along with the French. Do you know why you got the name fisheads?

Jesus your some pain in the hole, you know what the people of Westport where doing, yat thats right being British as those Mayo 4-West Brit-Planters always have been and always will be. No son your Covies hid in their mud huts, while Castlebar became the Capital of the Irish Republic.

[Peter Solan the Great]

Must be great living out in Mayo where the only time you seen orangemen was when they came to help Capt. Boycott. Fact of the matter is he left us to rot in the north and if it was available for your poll he would get my vote every time.

He doesn't speak for us. In fact he doesn't even seem to speak for FG either. I'd say he is a Michael Ring man.

Imagine two Castlebar men up on the list of Irelands worst. There could be a good few more names on that list. At the races of Castlebar, the natives hid in their houses while the men of  Aughagower, Kilalla and the rest of Mayo fought for Irelands freedom along with the French. Do you know why you got the name fisheads?

Jesus your some pain in the hole, you know what the people of Westport where doing, yat thats right being British as those Mayo 4-West Brit-Planters always have been and always will be. No son your Covies hid in their mud huts, while Castlebar became the Capital of the Irish Republic.

The town was in existence for a massive 18 years when the races of Castlebar occurred and had a grand population of 500 at the time. I never did explain how the term fish heads came about for the people of Castlebar. It was first coined because the Fishheads are so ignorant of 'the ways of the sea' and seafood in general that they'd even eat/ate the head of the fish (jaws'n'all) when presented with it. That of course as the years went by extended into other areas also most notbaly Pee Flynn et al. This youtube video explains it in more detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKDtUzRIG6I&feature=fvw

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Must be great living out in Mayo where the only time you seen orangemen was when they came to help Capt. Boycott. Fact of the matter is he left us to rot in the north and if it was available for your poll he would get my vote every time.

He doesn't speak for us. In fact he doesn't even seem to speak for FG either. I'd say he is a Michael Ring man.

Imagine two Castlebar men up on the list of Irelands worst. There could be a good few more names on that list. At the races of Castlebar, the natives hid in their houses while the men of  Aughagower, Kilalla and the rest of Mayo fought for Irelands freedom along with the French. Do you know why you got the name fisheads?

Jesus your some pain in the hole, you know what the people of Westport where doing, yat thats right being British as those Mayo 4-West Brit-Planters always have been and always will be. No son your Covies hid in their mud huts, while Castlebar became the Capital of the Irish Republic.

The town was in existence for a massive 18 years when the races of Castlebar occurred and had a grand population of 500 at the time. I never did explain how the term fish heads came about for the people of Castlebar. It was first coined because the Fishheads are so ignorant of 'the ways of the sea' and seafood in general that they'd even eat/ate the head of the fish (jaws'n'all) when presented with it. That of course as the years went by extended into other areas also most notbaly Pee Flynn et al. This youtube video explains it in more detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKDtUzRIG6I&feature=fvw

Is that the second town after you bent over and let a landlord relocate you all down the road. You couldn't even fight to keep your homes, while we fought for Ireland. Also we founded the Land League, ya we did, Ms Westport.

[ross4life]

I always thought the fish-heads thing was a famine thing? Westport (fishing town) threw the fish-heads into their neighbours to feast on?? but PSTG must be right 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Castlebar - Capital of the Irish Republic.
Castlebar - Founding of the Land League.
Castlebar - 27 County Titles.

Westport - Relocated at the Whim of a Landlord.
Westport - Regulary Floods.
Westport - 0 County Titles.

[Peter Solan the Great]

Must be great living out in Mayo where the only time you seen orangemen was when they came to help Capt. Boycott. Fact of the matter is he left us to rot in the north and if it was available for your poll he would get my vote every time.

He doesn't speak for us. In fact he doesn't even seem to speak for FG either. I'd say he is a Michael Ring man.

Imagine two Castlebar men up on the list of Irelands worst. There could be a good few more names on that list. At the races of Castlebar, the natives hid in their houses while the men of  Aughagower, Kilalla and the rest of Mayo fought for Irelands freedom along with the French. Do you know why you got the name fisheads?

Jesus your some pain in the hole, you know what the people of Westport where doing, yat thats right being British as those Mayo 4-West Brit-Planters always have been and always will be. No son your Covies hid in their mud huts, while Castlebar became the Capital of the Irish Republic.

The town was in existence for a massive 18 years when the races of Castlebar occurred and had a grand population of 500 at the time. I never did explain how the term fish heads came about for the people of Castlebar. It was first coined because the Fishheads are so ignorant of 'the ways of the sea' and seafood in general that they'd even eat/ate the head of the fish (jaws'n'all) when presented with it. That of course as the years went by extended into other areas also most notbaly Pee Flynn et al. This youtube video explains it in more detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKDtUzRIG6I&feature=fvw

Is that the second town after you bent over and let a landlord relocate you all down the road. You couldn't even fight to keep your homes, while we fought for Ireland. Also we founded the Land League, ya we did, Ms Westport.

The founding meeting of the Mayo Tenants Defence Association in Castlebar, County Mayo The first meeting to developed a National land league was held in Claremorris The meeting to set up the national land league was held in Castlebar a few months after this by Michael Davitt (Straide) James Daly (Westport) John O Connor (Ballinasloe) Thomas Brennan (Co.Meath) Tom Kettle (Dublin) The Castlebar connection so far seems to be just Location also. "As already mentioned in this thread being born in a stable does not make one a horse"

[Peter Solan the Great]

Castlebar - Capital of the Irish Republic.
Castlebar - Founding of the Land League.
Castlebar - 27 County Titles.

Westport - Relocated at the Whim of a Landlord.
Westport - Regulary Floods.
Westport - 0 County Titles.

26 of those county titles are discounted due to the lack of any native Castlebar people on them.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I always thought the fish-heads thing was a famine thing? Westport (fishing town) threw the fish-heads into their neighbours to feast on?? but PSTG must be right 

It is a famine thing, the British (Covies) where allowed fish in the sea, they sold fish heads to the Irish (Castlebar people) who surivied the famine to build a much bigger and better town called Castlebar than the little suburb by the sea known as Westport.

The people of Galway choked Herons and everyone will agree thats a pretty fine city.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

PSTG, you make me pray for Global Warming.