James McCartan Snr's post 1990 All Stars

[5 Sams]

In fairness he still talks a lot of sense...

http://www.jeromequinnmedia.com/watch/James-McCartan-Senior_50

[saffron sam2]

SS2 when you refer to Mc guigan and the dark arts, well I'm puzzled, care to elaborate. Outside of Brian making the best of Mc Cartan throwing the ball at him in the Ulster final, I can't think of anything that might fall under the banner of the dark arts, and thats including that specific act.

No problem Paul. I will outline things below.

I was thinking that myself, there isn't much that can be said against Brian McGuigan apart from the usual biased view that CmcC was harshly treated over chucking a ball at BmG and that McGuigan made a meal of it.

I'm getting it tight to take you seriously when you can't even spell G McC's initials correctly.

Firstly, Brian McGuigan is a loughshore man; the 'dark arts' are a part of their genetic makeup.

Secondly, almost every one of Mickey Harte's protégés is institutionalised in their use. I would exclude Hub Hughes, Mugsy, Stevie O'Neill and Enda McGinley from this list, but would struggle to exclude any others.

For me, the incident involving Gregory McCartan is a microcosm of McGuigan's career. I don't think there is a match that he has played for Tyrone that he hasn't used subterfuge or skullduggery in an attempt to get an opponent sent off. I was at the Tyrone Down in Casement this year and watched him spend five minutes niggling his direct opponent in a valiant, but futile attempt to provoke a response.This attention only ended when he was booked. Similarly, there was the incident with John Miskella last year, when he did indeed get the desired response,although John Bannon ducked his responsibilities and invented a new rule. I can remember an incident involving McGuigan and Eamonn Fitzmaurice that was identical to the Jordan / Marsden incident in every respect bar the controversial red card.

I would encourage you both to watch any game that Brian McGuigan has played in for Tyrone and see if you can identify any other such incidents.

I would also encourage you both to watch McGuigan in action over the National League and see if there are any other such incidents.

I would also be of the opinion that Greg Blaney never had to resort to such tactics.

Now, lest I be accused by the usual suspects of an anti-Tyrone bias, I would like to highlight a couple of posts from my past.

If I had the choice of any one player from the Tyrone squads of 2003/05, I would pick McGuigan.

Not sure if that answers your question.

Another poor contribution from Mr ONeill.

Brian McGuigan
Sean Cavanagh
Ciaran Gourley
Cormac McAnallan
Pascal McConnell
Stephen O'Neill
Joe McMahon
Justin McMahon
Philip Jordan
Ronan Clarke
Oisin McConville
etc
etc

Of that list, I reckon McGuigan would have been every bit as good a footballer without the MacRory, you can't coach his talent.

I'd question Canty & Whelan while Cluxton and Cahill simply do not deserve to be there. This scheme has become a complete joke.

Any semblance of respect that these awards once had totally evaporated years ago when Peter Canavan was given an award at chf instead of Brain McGuigan.

Given that it's a post 1990 team, Joyce and Brian McGuigan would push Blaney for the forty yards spot, but their over-reliance on the dark arts means, for this purist anyway, Blaney is the best (and only) choice.

Kindest regards

saffron sam2

[Bogball XV]

The two best goalkeepers of the last 20 years where Dublin men?

Yes

James Reilly has always looked the part when I've seen him, and the best goalkeeper over a season I saw was McNamara in 1998 (he was exposed a time or 2 subsequently).

[shawshank]

SS2, it seems that your idea of the black arts is completely different to mine. Kiernan Mc Keever of Armagh or Derry, Mick Lynons of Meath, Mc Menamin of Tyrone etc are players who genuninely use the black arts, Mc Guigan wouldn't come close to them, as one might say he would be as green as grass in comparsion to them. As for Blaney, I agree that he was class CHF, but he was ruthlessly dirty, his elbows did some damage when they had too, but I would have Blaney at CHF also.

[saffron sam2]

SS2, it seems that your idea of the black arts is completely different to mine. Kiernan Mc Keever of Armagh or Derry, Mick Lynons of Meath, Mc Menamin of Tyrone etc are players who genuninely use the black arts, Mc Guigan wouldn't come close to them, as one might say he would be as green as grass in comparsion to them. As for Blaney, I agree that he was class CHF, but he was ruthlessly dirty, his elbows did some damage when they had too, but I would have Blaney at CHF also.

There is nothing artistic, black or otherwise, in how McKeever, Lyons and McMenamin approached the game.

Superb random additions of the letter n by the way.

[shawshank]

We all don't use the spell check , as I figured you were bright enough to understand it

[BarryBreensBandage]

For those that are interested - James Snr's pre-1990 AllStars:

1. Johnny Geraghty (Galway)
2. Jerome O'Shea (Kerry)
3. Noel Tierney (Galway)
4. John Egan (Offaly)
5. Sean Murphy (Kerry)
6. Paddy Holden (Dublin)
7. Jim McDonnell (Cavan)
8. Jim McKeever (Derry)
9. Jack O'Shea (Kerry)
10. Sean O'Neill (Down)
11. Sean Purcell (Galway)
12. Paddy Doherty (Down)
13. Mikey Sheehy (Kerry)
14. Eoin Liston (Kerry)
15. Kevin Heffernan (Dublin)

Subs: Jack Mangan (Galway), Paddy McCormack (Offaly), John O'Keefe (Kerry), Paidi O'Se (Kerry), Kevin Moran (Dublin), Paudie Lynch (Kerry), Tommy Drumm (Dublin), Dermot Earley (Roscommon), Mick O'Connell (Kerry), Colm McAlarney (Down), Mickey Kearins (Sligo), Pat Spillane (Kerry), Matt Connor (Offaly), Jimmy Barry-Murphy (Cork), John Egan (Kerry)

[BarryBreensBandage]

Mick O'Connell in the subs...............Jim McKeever..............Alarming.

Know where you're coming from Hardstation, but, in fairness, he played aginst them both, and no better man to be giving his opinion.

[ross4life]

For those that are interested - James Snr's pre-1990 AllStars:

1. Johnny Geraghty (Galway)
2. Jerome O'Shea (Kerry)
3. Noel Tierney (Galway)
4. John Egan (Offaly)
5. Sean Murphy (Kerry)
6. Paddy Holden (Dublin)
7. Jim McDonnell (Cavan)
8. Jim McKeever (Derry)
9. Jack O'Shea (Kerry)
10. Sean O'Neill (Down)
11. Sean Purcell (Galway)
12. Paddy Doherty (Down)
13. Mikey Sheehy (Kerry)
14. Eoin Liston (Kerry)
15. Kevin Heffernan (Dublin)

Subs: Jack Mangan (Galway), Paddy McCormack (Offaly), John O'Keefe (Kerry), Paidi O'Se (Kerry), Kevin Moran (Dublin), Paudie Lynch (Kerry), Tommy Drumm (Dublin), Dermot Earley (Roscommon), Mick O'Connell (Kerry), Colm McAlarney (Down), Mickey Kearins (Sligo), Pat Spillane (Kerry), Matt Connor (Offaly), Jimmy Barry-Murphy (Cork), John Egan (Kerry)

Pre-1990 but from when? No Harry Keegan,Pat Lindsay & Tony McManus in his squad is laughable

[shawshank]

Mick O'Connell in the subs...............Jim McKeever..............Alarming.

Know where you're coming from Hardstation, but, in fairness, he played aginst them both, and no better man to be giving his opinion.

I haven't even seen either of them play but still alarming.

whats alarming about it, Jim Mc keever is recognised as an all time great. He was selected at midfield in the 1984 centerary team, captained and played for Ulster on countless occassions at midfiled and in the all ireland semi final of 58 cleaned O'connell out at midfield. a living legend sir! In summary i agree with James snr

[Jinxy]

For those that are interested - James Snr's pre-1990 AllStars:

1. Johnny Geraghty (Galway)
2. Jerome O'Shea (Kerry)
3. Noel Tierney (Galway)
4. John Egan (Offaly)
5. Sean Murphy (Kerry)
6. Paddy Holden (Dublin)
7. Jim McDonnell (Cavan)
8. Jim McKeever (Derry)
9. Jack O'Shea (Kerry)
10. Sean O'Neill (Down)
11. Sean Purcell (Galway)
12. Paddy Doherty (Down)
13. Mikey Sheehy (Kerry)
14. Eoin Liston (Kerry)
15. Kevin Heffernan (Dublin)

Subs: Jack Mangan (Galway), Paddy McCormack (Offaly), John O'Keefe (Kerry), Paidi O'Se (Kerry), Kevin Moran (Dublin), Paudie Lynch (Kerry), Tommy Drumm (Dublin), Dermot Earley (Roscommon), Mick O'Connell (Kerry), Colm McAlarney (Down), Mickey Kearins (Sligo), Pat Spillane (Kerry), Matt Connor (Offaly), Jimmy Barry-Murphy (Cork), John Egan (Kerry)

Pre-1990 but from when? No Harry Keegan,Pat Lindsay & Tony McManus in his squad is laughable

Pre-1980 more like.

[Jinxy]

SS2, it seems that your idea of the black arts is completely different to mine. Kiernan Mc Keever of Armagh or Derry, Mick Lynons of Meath, Mc Menamin of Tyrone etc are players who genuninely use the black arts, Mc Guigan wouldn't come close to them, as one might say he would be as green as grass in comparsion to them. As for Blaney, I agree that he was class CHF, but he was ruthlessly dirty, his elbows did some damage when they had too, but I would have Blaney at CHF also.

There is nothing artistic, black or otherwise, in how McKeever, Lyons and McMenamin approached the game.

Superb random additions of the letter n by the way.

The cheek of you.

[heganboy]

His own were excluded i'd say. I saw his first draft:

1. John O'Leary - Dublin
2. Robbie O'Malley - Meath
3. Daniel
4. Tony Scullion - Derry
5. Paul Curran - Dublin
6. Charlie Pat
7. Kieran McGeeney - Armagh
8. Anthony Tohill - Derry
9. Brian
10.James
11. Greg Blaney - Down
12. Michael Donnellan - Galway
13. Eoin
14. Peter Canavan - Tyrone
15. Mickey Linden - Down

If you had that team fully fit, I'd have the mortgage on them beating the team he did name

[BarryBreensBandage]

His own were excluded i'd say. I saw his first draft:

1. John O'Leary - Dublin
2. Robbie O'Malley - Meath
3. Daniel
4. Tony Scullion - Derry
5. Paul Curran - Dublin
6. Charlie Pat
7. Kieran McGeeney - Armagh
8. Anthony Tohill - Derry
9. Brian
10.James
11. Greg Blaney - Down
12. Michael Donnellan - Galway
13. Eoin
14. Peter Canavan - Tyrone
15. Mickey Linden - Down

If you had that team fully fit, I'd have the mortgage on them beating the team he did name

Would agree with you there

[passedit]

His own were excluded i'd say. I saw his first draft:

1. John O'Leary - Dublin
2. Robbie O'Malley - Meath
3. Daniel
4. Tony Scullion - Derry
5. Paul Curran - Dublin
6. Charlie Pat
7. Kieran McGeeney - Armagh
8. Anthony Tohill - Derry
9. Brian
10.James
11. Greg Blaney - Down
12. Michael Donnellan - Galway
13. Eoin
14. Peter Canavan - Tyrone
15. Mickey Linden - Down

If you had that team fully fit, I'd have the mortgage on them beating the team he did name

Would agree with you there

So would I (and Oul James) but it's a huge if. Three of the boys cursed with their knees.