Seeing as changing the Championship is en vogue...

[BennyHarp]

I still think the way forward is a championship based on seedings from the league. If 2011 league staus was the barometer for this years championship and with 8 groups, each with a top seed from div 1 and 2nd seed from div 2 and so on we could be left with groups such as: (This was just based on where they finished in the table this year - and open draw is probably best)

Group 1: Mayo, Tyrone, Tipp and Fermanagh
Group 2: Cork, Derry, W'meath and Roscommon
Group 3: Dublin, Donegal, Wexford and Clare
Group 4: Kerry, Meath, Louth and Wicklow
Group 5: Galway, Laois, Cavan and Leitrim
Group 6: Monaghan, Kildare, Offaly and Carlow
Group 7: Down, Antrim, waterford and Longford
Group 8: Armagh, Sligo, Limerick and London

I would start the championship on the weekend of 21st/22nd of May and play a round of league games every week with final round of games on the 4th/5th of June (Thes dates are based on 2011) Only 2 televised live games per week should increase attendances.

I would possibly have a 3 week break after group stages for club fixtures

I would have two teams qualify from each group as this would keep interest going for each team longer with an open draw with 1st in group v 2nd in group, top team has home advantage or choice of venue. Games to be played on 25/26th of June - imagine Kerry v Tyrone in Killarney in a knock out championship game!!

The quarter finals would take place two weeks after that on 9th and 10th of July all at Croke Park. Again an open draw.

The first semi final would be on 24th of July and the second semi on the 31 of July!

Now, if we are going to be drastic - id have the all-ireland final in the final bank holiday weekend on 28th of August when everyone is off on the monday and allowing club championships to be completed in september.

I apologise if this is similar to other suggestions!

[Zulu]

But does the current backdoor system not provide the escape from the kerrys and the corks that you're after?

It does, but the argument people here are making is that the provincials give teams like Limerick something realistic to aim for, I'm saying it doesn't. I would argue that the current system Limerick is handicapping not only strong counties but also many weak counties as it forces them to face teams beyond their abilities every year.

to win anything, you are going to have to beat the best. isn't it up to the likes of limerick to try and get up to the level of cork and kerry?

With respect that isn't a reasonable argument. If Limerick got up to the standard of Kerry and Cork then it is AI's they'd be after moreso than Munster titles.

The only reasons that I can see that fellas are putting forward for retaining the provincials are;

1. Tradition - which isn't a reason at all IMO.

2. It gives something realistic for weaker counties to aim for - It doesn't really do this as the history books show, it may give good teams like Monaghan or Sligo something to aim for but Waterford, Clare, Antrim, Longford, Tipp, Carlow, Wexford have no chance of winning one in the foreseeable future. And to further highlight the ridiculousness of the provincial system some of those teams are as good as Sligo they are just in the wrong province. My alternative proposal gives every team in Ireland a genuinely realistic chance of winning something (their division)or as close as we can get to it.

3. It isn't unfair because if teams should just get better - that isn't an argument at all either as teams like Waterford haven't won a Munster title for a lot of reasons but lack of effort by players generally isn't one of them.

And if you want to use the argument that they do not play as many games in Munster as other counties, Kildare played one game in Leinster this year and look where they are now. If you are good enough, you will make it to the latter stages, albeit via the scenic route.

So what? Nobody is saying we should have a system that allows weak teams to advance all we are saying is that the system should be the same for everyone. Having unequal groups is a joke and shouldn't be allowed, tradition or no tradition.

No matter what any of the supporters of the provincial championships say the most damning reality is that nobody in their right mind would come up with the current system if we inventing the GAA today. That being the case why should we hold on to it now?

[DB_An_Mhi]

The problem with 8 groups of 4 teams each, is it would end up like the first stage of the champions league.

If you wanted the group stages to be very competitive (for 1st and 2nd seeds), only one county should qualify for the knock out stages. If it was two to qualify, both would go through the motions and do the minimum. Or pick weaker sides for the final round of games if already qualified. Non events. And yet if it was only one to qualify, many counties would give up after one or two games with nothing left to play for. I couldn't see it having an edge over the current system.

The centenary cup of 1984 springs to mind (I would say that!). An open draw knock out competition involving all 32 counties would be more appealing, except it just wouldn't integrate with the provincial championships.

[Derry Optimist]

In response to Mike Sheehy's question about the number of All Senior All Ireland medals that Cavan have won I think I should leave my answer to the real Mike Sheehy! Mike who was a terrific forward in  the greatest team that I have ever seen once gave a very succinct answer to a journalist who asked him why had Kerry won so many Senior All Irelands. His paraphrased retort stated that if the Kingdom had been in Leinster or Ulster they might have won only a small fraction of what they had accomplished. Conversely he also said that if Dublin or Cavan had been in Munster, in all probability , their All Ireland Senior medal tally would have been cosiderably greater. Like all brilliant forwards he was not only a wonderful player inside the box but a broad-minded thinker ouside it as well! His answer, given over twenty five years ago,  showed that he realised the unfairness of the provincial championhip system even then. So Mike eile keep the faith. We are all heading for the same destination. The one difference is that there are many equally valid ways of getting there.

[Mike Sheehy]

In response to Mike Sheehy's question about the number of All Senior All Ireland medals that Cavan have won I think I should leave my answer to the real Mike Sheehy! Mike who was a terrific forward in  the greatest team that I have ever seen once gave a very succinct answer to a journalist who asked him why had Kerry won so many Senior All Irelands. His paraphrased retort stated that if the Kingdom had been in Leinster or Ulster they might have won only a small fraction of what they had accomplished. Conversely he also said that if Dublin or Cavan had been in Munster, in all probability , their All Ireland Senior medal tally would have been cosiderably greater. Like all brilliant forwards he was not only a wonderful player inside the box but a broad-minded thinker ouside it as well! His answer, given over twenty five years ago,  showed that he realised the unfairness of the provincial championhip system even then. So Mike eile keep the faith. We are all heading for the same destination. The one difference is that there are many equally valid ways of getting there.

Let me guess..the journalist was from the north ? We know what you lads want to hear. Mikey is a kind hearted soul and so would want you lads to feel good about yourselves but the reality is that he was being patronizing (in a good natured way)

Anyway, you didnt answer the question...and the notion that Cavan would have won more AI if they were in Munster is ridiculous. They would have won less. So, I ask you the question again....why have Cavan not won 20 AI ?

[Orangemac]

Although the current provincial championships are inequitable they are here for the forseeable future, turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

I agree that the last thing anyone wants is a few rounds of dead rubbers such as in the Heineiken Cup.

An idea similiar to 1 proposed earlier

1) Keep league as is (Play Feb/March - scrap finals)

2) Play prov championships as normal only more compressed ( 7/8 weeks MAX)

3) KO stage.

Seed teams with 1-4 seeds prov champions and 5-32 based upon league pos.

So seeds would be

1 Kerry
2 Tyrone
3 Meath
4 Roscommon
5 Cork

etc.

1st round Seed 1 v Seed 32 etc through to Seed 16 v Seed 17. 1st round lower seed would be at home.

4) Last 16 again highest seed v lowest seed etc with higher seed at home this time.

5) Qfs and SFs also.

This would help boost league profile, prov champs profile and ensure best teams made it through to latter stages each year.

[Zulu]

That ain't bad at all. Although I would question some aspects of it there is no perfect solution and no way to please everyone and your format does address some of the glaring weaknesses of our current season. The way we treat the league is the biggest problem with the season IMO and I don't really care whether the provincial championships are kept or not as long as the league's status is elevated. If we did that they we open up all kinds of possibilities for promoting the GAA and providing a much better sporting experience to the people of Ireland.


By the way I agree that the provincials are here for the foreseeable future so your format trumps my own on the basis that it has some (probably small) chance of seeing the light of day.

[thewobbler]

Anyone suggesting tying league form to Championship seedings needs to have a good long think.

Club football takes a back seat as things stand. Making every county game related to the big prize is a kick in the stones it just doesn't need.

[Rossfan]

Now, if we are going to be drastic - id have the all-ireland final in the final bank holiday weekend on 28th of August when everyone is off on the monday and allowing club championships to be completed in september.

I apologise if this is similar to other suggestions!

You must expect 2 six County teams to reach the All Ireland Final   

[mylestheslasher]

Cavan have 39 Ulster Titles, a large portion of them won when Ulster football was very weak ( up until the mid 30's). There was also a real inferiority complex about Ulster football back then, teams that won the title expected a hammering and usually got one. People heralded the Down breakthrough in the 60's as being a defining moment for Ulster football but the truth is Cavans first title was a huge breakthrough for Ulster. Cavan played in 11 AI finals in total, losing 6. There were a number of hard luck stories in there too but sure any county could say that. Why did Cavan not win 20 titles, I would say there are a couple of reasons 1) Lack of belief 2) Many won at periods where Ulster football was relatively poor and 3) Ulster was always a real dog fight to get out of.

A bigger question Cavan people always ask themselves is how did we not win at least one AI title in the 60's when Down were a top team and won 3 AI titles, Cavan gave them 3 serious beatings in provincial finals and yet never won a semi final in that decade.

And the biggest question is how do you go from a team in the 60's with a real shot at a AI title to a team now that is in the bottom 6/7 in the country?

[Zulu]

Anyone suggesting tying league form to Championship seedings needs to have a good long think.

Club football takes a back seat as things stand. Making every county game related to the big prize is a kick in the stones it just doesn't need.

On the contrary, the system I proposed would aid the club scene and allow them far more games and a structured season.

I would start the league in the first week of May, or thereabouts, leaving Jan to May 1st as the preseason. So clubs would have Jan & Feb as preseason and March early April for some league games or whatever they wanted. From mid April to the end of June CB's would know that all IC players would be off limits and could instead run non-IC player leagues or cups.

Then July would see the 1st and 2nd round of the knockout championship so by the end of July all bar 8 teams would be out which is the way it is now but every CB would know exactly what weekends their county could be playing in advance. This is system would also allow the AI be finished a week earlier if you wanted to.

Indeed you could start the whole thing in April if you wanted and be done by the last week of August too. The beauty of the system I have proposed is that it has less games overall but far more important ones. It also addresses the overlap between different competitions and prevents players being pulled from pillar to post by various teams.