Get ready to wave them flegs - Lily Windsor's coming

[gallsman]

Nally, for once cut the Free State shite out, you lower your own (and eveybody else's) argument by throwing that out there. There are many on this thread from south of the border who agree with you.

MGHU, it is not a question of what you boasted about at all. You initially started out by saying the fate of the hungerstrikers was their own fault, then you told us they were common criminals and thugs. When it was put to you that they were in the exact same position as Michael Collins (and other republicans of that era) you tried to squirm out of it by talking about 1918 when you knew you reference was to the Easter Rising. Then you refused to give a definitive response. You are a hypocrite of the highest order. An embarrassment of an Irishman who picks through and talks history as and when he pleases and ignores the rest.

[Nally Stand]

MGHU - it's a simple question, do you view the men of 1916 (inc Collins) the same way you do the Provisional IRA? i.e. Criminal Murdering Thugs.

NO, the Provisional I.R.A. went far beyond the Pale when they started bombing pubs, city streets full of civilian, murdering Gardaí and punishment beatings, robbing banks and disappearances of innocents.

Aye hard to beat sweeping generalisations isn't it. You are a condescending hypocrite. And you never answered my qiestion about Francis Hughes and your Irish Army/Gardai nonsense.

Nally Stand, you don't have me tied to a chair preparing me for my punishment beating now. I am going to the off-licence if you don't mind herr fuhrer.

Whatever....could you maybe answer the question now?

[pintsofguinness]

MGHU - it's a simple question, do you view the men of 1916 (inc Collins) the same way you do the Provisional IRA? i.e. Criminal Murdering Thugs.

NO, the Provisional I.R.A. went far beyond the Pale when they started bombing pubs, city streets full of civilian, murdering Gardaí and punishment beatings, robbing banks and disappearances of innocents.

You do know more innocent civillans where killed in 1916 than British forces don't you?

Yes I do, however it wasn't 30 years+ of hate flled genocide like the Provisional IRA campaign. Again I never boasted about 1916.

Who said you boasted about anything? I'm trying to understand your views...
So far we have - PIRA - murdering thugs
Collins - after 1918 - He's ok because he was given authority by some people like him who classed themselves as the government of Ireland yet who weren't recognised by any government in the world.  And this from someone who is constantly talking about the legitimacy of the "republic".
Collins and co - before 1916 - you have a "luke warm" attitude to them because they should have tried to get the Brits to surrender via the ballot box (they couldn't even get home rule from the ballot box never mind independence you know) - btw, why didn't the cabinet of 1918 stick to the ballot box? Why was it ok for them to decide to pick up arms but not ok for Connolly and co to do the same?

[AZOffaly]

[Lar Naparka]

MGHU - it's a simple question, do you view the men of 1916 (inc Collins) the same way you do the Provisional IRA? i.e. Criminal Murdering Thugs.

NO, the Provisional I.R.A. went far beyond the Pale when they started bombing pubs, city streets full of civilian, murdering Gardaí and punishment beatings, robbing banks and disappearances of innocents.

You do know more innocent civillans where killed in 1916 than British forces don't you?

Yes I do, however it wasn't 30 years+ of hate flled genocide like the Provisional IRA campaign. Again I never boasted about 1916.

Who said you boasted about anything? I'm trying to understand your views...
So far we have - PIRA - murdering thugs
Collins - after 1918 - He's ok because he was given authority by some people like him who classed themselves as the government of Ireland yet who weren't recognised by any government in the world.  And this from someone who is constantly talking about the legitimacy of the "republic".
Collins and co - before 1916 - you have a "luke warm" attitude to them because they should have tried to get the Brits to surrender via the ballot box (they couldn't even get home rule from the ballot box never mind independence you know) - btw, why didn't the cabinet of 1918 stick to the ballot box? Why was it ok for them to decide to pick up arms but not ok for Connolly and co to do the same?

Good post, pints.

[Nally Stand]

Their "special" status is bullshit in my opinion, I'm sorry but to me they were thugs. I can pretend to think of these folk as freedom fighters if you like, but to me they were not. The guardians of peace and defence for me are the Irish Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the security services of the Irish Government.

I repeat:

The guardians of the peace for you were the gardai and the irish army? I assume thats why you disagree with the hunger strikers then? So when Francis Hughes was a normal young lad trying to have a normal life, was recieving regular beatings from the "police" when going to dances, who should he have turned to? The irish army? Are you seriously that thick?

EDIT:
How sad that this discussion is taking place on the 30th Anniversary of the deaths of two of the hunger strikers, Ray McCreesh & Patsy O'Hara, who both died after 61 days on the protest.
"My brother is not a criminal" (Fr Brian McCreesh)

[Rav67]

Their "special" status is bullshit in my opinion, I'm sorry but to me they were thugs. I can pretend to think of these folk as freedom fighters if you like, but to me they were not. The guardians of peace and defence for me are the Irish Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the security services of the Irish Government.

I repeat:

The guardians of the peace for you were the gardai and the irish army? I assume thats why you disagree with the hunger strikers then? So when Francis Hughes was a normal young lad trying to have a normal life, was recieving regular beatings from the "police" when going to dances, who should he have turned to? The irish army? Are you seriously that thick?

EDIT:
How sad that this discussion is taking place on the 30th Anniversary of the deaths of two of the hunger strikers, Ray McCreesh & Patsy O'Hara, who both died after 61 days on the protest.
"My brother is not a criminal" (Fr Brian McCreesh)

Would there be a better day for the discussion or do you just not like anyone disagreeing with you?

[gallsman]

Their "special" status is bullshit in my opinion, I'm sorry but to me they were thugs. I can pretend to think of these folk as freedom fighters if you like, but to me they were not. The guardians of peace and defence for me are the Irish Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the security services of the Irish Government.

I repeat:

The guardians of the peace for you were the gardai and the irish army? I assume thats why you disagree with the hunger strikers then? So when Francis Hughes was a normal young lad trying to have a normal life, was recieving regular beatings from the "police" when going to dances, who should he have turned to? The irish army? Are you seriously that thick?

EDIT:
How sad that this discussion is taking place on the 30th Anniversary of the deaths of two of the hunger strikers, Ray McCreesh & Patsy O'Hara, who both died after 61 days on the protest.
"My brother is not a criminal" (Fr Brian McCreesh)

Would there be a better day for the discussion or do you just not like anyone disagreeing with you?

Agreed. While poignant, the date is irrelevant.

[Nally Stand]

Their "special" status is bullshit in my opinion, I'm sorry but to me they were thugs. I can pretend to think of these folk as freedom fighters if you like, but to me they were not. The guardians of peace and defence for me are the Irish Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the security services of the Irish Government.

I repeat:

The guardians of the peace for you were the gardai and the irish army? I assume thats why you disagree with the hunger strikers then? So when Francis Hughes was a normal young lad trying to have a normal life, was recieving regular beatings from the "police" when going to dances, who should he have turned to? The irish army? Are you seriously that thick?

EDIT:
How sad that this discussion is taking place on the 30th Anniversary of the deaths of two of the hunger strikers, Ray McCreesh & Patsy O'Hara, who both died after 61 days on the protest.
"My brother is not a criminal" (Fr Brian McCreesh)

Would there be a better day for the discussion or do you just not like anyone disagreeing with you?

Agreed. While poignant, the date is irrelevant.

I didn't say the date had to be sad for everyone. The date might be irrelevant to you lads, but it isn't for everyone.

[gallsman]

Their "special" status is bullshit in my opinion, I'm sorry but to me they were thugs. I can pretend to think of these folk as freedom fighters if you like, but to me they were not. The guardians of peace and defence for me are the Irish Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the security services of the Irish Government.

I repeat:

The guardians of the peace for you were the gardai and the irish army? I assume thats why you disagree with the hunger strikers then? So when Francis Hughes was a normal young lad trying to have a normal life, was recieving regular beatings from the "police" when going to dances, who should he have turned to? The irish army? Are you seriously that thick?

EDIT:
How sad that this discussion is taking place on the 30th Anniversary of the deaths of two of the hunger strikers, Ray McCreesh & Patsy O'Hara, who both died after 61 days on the protest.
"My brother is not a criminal" (Fr Brian McCreesh)

Would there be a better day for the discussion or do you just not like anyone disagreeing with you?

Agreed. While poignant, the date is irrelevant.

I didn't say the date had to be sad for everyone. The date might be irrelevant to you lads, but it isn't for everyone.

To the extent that it should have an impact on this debate, it is completely irrelevant.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Their "special" status is bullshit in my opinion, I'm sorry but to me they were thugs. I can pretend to think of these folk as freedom fighters if you like, but to me they were not. The guardians of peace and defence for me are the Irish Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the security services of the Irish Government.

I repeat:

The guardians of the peace for you were the gardai and the irish army? I assume thats why you disagree with the hunger strikers then? So when Francis Hughes was a normal young lad trying to have a normal life, was recieving regular beatings from the "police" when going to dances, who should he have turned to? The irish army? Are you seriously that thick?

EDIT:
How sad that this discussion is taking place on the 30th Anniversary of the deaths of two of the hunger strikers, Ray McCreesh & Patsy O'Hara, who both died after 61 days on the protest.
"My brother is not a criminal" (Fr Brian McCreesh)

Would there be a better day for the discussion or do you just not like anyone disagreeing with you?

Agreed. While poignant, the date is irrelevant.

I didn't say the date had to be sad for everyone. The date might be irrelevant to you lads, but it isn't for everyone.

To the extent that it should have an impact on this debate, it is completely irrelevant.

By the way I did not know the significance (or not) of this date. It does not change any argument, but it was not my intention to focus on this subject especially on a particular day.

[Tubberman]

Their "special" status is bullshit in my opinion, I'm sorry but to me they were thugs. I can pretend to think of these folk as freedom fighters if you like, but to me they were not. The guardians of peace and defence for me are the Irish Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the security services of the Irish Government.

I repeat:

The guardians of the peace for you were the gardai and the irish army? I assume thats why you disagree with the hunger strikers then? So when Francis Hughes was a normal young lad trying to have a normal life, was recieving regular beatings from the "police" when going to dances, who should he have turned to? The irish army? Are you seriously that thick?

EDIT:
How sad that this discussion is taking place on the 30th Anniversary of the deaths of two of the hunger strikers, Ray McCreesh & Patsy O'Hara, who both died after 61 days on the protest.
"My brother is not a criminal" (Fr Brian McCreesh)

Would there be a better day for the discussion or do you just not like anyone disagreeing with you?

Agreed. While poignant, the date is irrelevant.

I didn't say the date had to be sad for everyone. The date might be irrelevant to you lads, but it isn't for everyone.

To the extent that it should have an impact on this debate, it is completely irrelevant.

By the way I did not know the significance (or not) of this date. It does not change any argument, but it was not my intention to focus on this subject especially on a particular day.

You need to get a new hobby MGHU. This isn't healthy...

[Tubberman]

I know most people (if not all) on this board have a healthy disregard for the Sindo, but today is worse than normal.
I just went on to the website and these are the headlines. What gushing, nauseating shite:


A new path to a Common Wealth
Poll shows how Queen was taken to Irish hearts
Dashing Army captain who left all of us ladies green with envy
Paddy has passed a milestone on the long road to adulthood
Old enemy has turned out to be our most valued and trusted ally
Friends and equals don't need to ask for apologies
Her head bowed and 'the whole of Ireland missed a heartbeat'
Footprint of monarchy stamped on our history

[Nally Stand]

Mayo, Post #963 - any chance of an answer?

[mylestheslasher]

Mayo, Post #963 - any chance of an answer?

I'd leave it nally. He has talked himself into a corner and will now ignore direct questions and hope everyone forgets his stupidity on this issue.

As for todays Sunday indo, what a shit heap of a paper.