James Horan Appointed Mayo Manager 2011

[shaund10]

Glen Ryan?

Or Kevin Walsh

No chance I would say. Eye is firmly on the Galway job I would think. Considering Kernan is going to be given two years possibly a little more, I would say he is very happy staying with his nicely developed improving Sligo side until the vacancey arises. The Mayo job wouldnt look the most attractive at the moment, especially with the expectation of the fans.

I can't understand calls for Peter Forde. Are ye Mayo lads not going to learn from Galway's mistakes? Replacing O'Mahoney with Forde? It just got worse and worse for Galway. Surely Mayo wont go down the same line.

To be honest, I think going for a big name is the right thing to do for once. Raise the spirits with a Paidi o Se say, no ties to anyone, no loyalties, a clean slate and it would give the county a lift.

I presume you meant to say "it would give the other counties a lift". Paidi is not what we need. A high-profile, self-promoting 'gas character' isn't going to turn things around.
We should be able to sort this out from within the county, but maybe a fresh face who wouldn't be afraid to get rid of a few big names, or give a bollocking to the county board about the setup etc is what we need.....

Well maybe not Paidi O'Se but I certainly think a complete outsider with a proven track record is the best option for ye. Whether you could attract a manager like that is another matter. Anyway, what do I care? I only hope you bring in Peter Ford or the like and make a complete balls of things once again.

[seafoid]

Kevin Walsh would be a good manager for Mayo.  He could be the new JOM.

There is something very touching about these Mayo threads that crop up with such regularity.

[diehard]

FEAR OF FAILURE
Larnapairce I agree with most of what you have said. This is my take on why a team that seemed destined to do well ended in a state of utter humiliation.
It seems to me it all started in Croke Park v Meath. We lost that game and the team and management were castigated. They put it right with a fine league display and we thought we had a more or less settled team with the bonus of several options on the bench. Then we were blown away by Cork and everything was back at ground zero again. Confidence was shattered, pressure was mounting on JOM, his selectors and on the team. The pressure that was on JOM translated into several challenge games to try to establish which were the best 15 in various positions. Players became the focus of attention. Players were fighting for their places (and avoiding being blamed) and the focus was off playing as a team.
The pressure on this Mayo team against Sligo was huge and it was a very toxic pressure compared to lets say the intense pressure of playing in an all ireland. The pressure was to avoid playing badly and being lampooned by everyone. Small wonder then that when the Sligo comeback started that the jitters set in and that we were crippled by self doubt and fear of failure.
The Longford game was a repeat of the same process except on an even higher scale. Utter humiliation was the award for losing. [There was no prize much for winning!]
The result was what I saw at first hand:
1. Players who were making basic mistakes
2. Players who were not enjoying their football
3. Players who seemed inhibited by lack of confidence and fear of failure
4. Management who were under all kinds of pressure (political and other) making poor decisions


And here is the key point – the pressure that was on JOM to succeed seemed to have been transferred onto the players in a way that actually undermined their potential. It was a pressure to avoid failure – the difference between fear of failure and ambition to win  is subtle but very important in how it manifests itself in action.
One drives you on to great things – the other drives to to distraction.
De-toxing the team and building a healthy approach has to be one of the biggest challenges for the new management.

[An Gaeilgoir]

FEAR OF FAILURE
Larnapairce I agree with most of what you have said. This is my take on why a team that seemed destined to do well ended in a state of utter humiliation.
It seems to me it all started in Croke Park v Meath. We lost that game and the team and management were castigated. They put it right with a fine league display and we thought we had a more or less settled team with the bonus of several options on the bench. Then we were blown away by Cork and everything was back at ground zero again. Confidence was shattered, pressure was mounting on JOM, his selectors and on the team. The pressure that was on JOM translated into several challenge games to try to establish which were the best 15 in various positions. Players became the focus of attention. Players were fighting for their places (and avoiding being blamed) and the focus was off playing as a team.
The pressure on this Mayo team against Sligo was huge and it was a very toxic pressure compared to lets say the intense pressure of playing in an all ireland. The pressure was to avoid playing badly and being lampooned by everyone. Small wonder then that when the Sligo comeback started that the jitters set in and that we were crippled by self doubt and fear of failure.
The Longford game was a repeat of the same process except on an even higher scale. Utter humiliation was the award for losing. [There was no prize much for winning!]
The result was what I saw at first hand:
1. Players who were making basic mistakes
2. Players who were not enjoying their football
3. Players who seemed inhibited by lack of confidence and fear of failure
4. Management who were under all kinds of pressure (political and other) making poor decisions


And here is the key point – the pressure that was on JOM to succeed seemed to have been transferred onto the players in a way that actually undermined their potential. It was a pressure to avoid failure – the difference between fear of failure and ambition to win  is subtle but very important in how it manifests itself in action.
One drives you on to great things – the other drives to to distraction.
De-toxing the team and building a healthy approach has to be one of the biggest challenges for the new management.

Just a couple of points on this, Mayo are a highly experienced outfit, playing in major games since they were 16 years of age. we are supposed to be a top 8 team (until Sunday morning). I dont buy into this pressure to fail, either our team have the desire and drive to win a game,as Longford and Sligo did or they haven't. I have read every week before a big game, Mayo players in the media shiteing on about new belief, team ethic, lessons learned, no more hiding etc. All bullshit, JOM on newstalk before the Longford game, we never hear kerry lads, tyrone lads or their managers on the radio going on with this rubbish. We need to do our talking on the pitch and  leave the media hoorisim in the stands. We are back 6 years in our progress following this shambles. The players, management, county board, regardless of them been blueshirts or commies have to take the collective fall for the mess we are in. Time to rebuild.

[blast05]

The last day against Longford, most of the old guard remained on the bench, even when things were going badly, and perhaps when we needed a bit of experience. It was a very, very strange move to bring on Parsons, at (5) wing back and leave Gardiner on the sideline. I assumed that their was some sort of bust up, and that Trev, Gardiner and McGarity were all left out of proceedings against Longford. I was sure Gardiner would be in for Howley but JOM went for a mid-fielder to play wing back. Says it all really.

I actually thought bringing on Parsons was about the only sensible move made by the sideline all day. The reason was that we already had tried McLoughlin and Howley on Paddy Dowd and both got roasted. Dowd was playing all over the place and was having a huge influence on the game. When McLoughlin was being taken off, I was actually thinking that Parsons was probably the only player that had the athleticism to stay with Down but had i been on the sideline i probably would have tried Keith Higgins on him at that stage.
To assume that the bringing on of Parsons indicated a bust up with the old-guard is a bit of a stretch and is the type of comment that will be picked up from here and eventually spouted about the county as fact.

Re your comments on Feeney .... i'd agree that he is about the only 1 on the board i'd have time for. He may have screwed up in the past going on Morning Ireland giving his twopence worth on Padriac Nally but aside from that, he is the type of guy we need along with a significant influx of new blood.
For those that always use Feeneys name as the first one when slating the county board - well i'd be interested in why.

[AbbeySider]

The last day against Longford, most of the old guard remained on the bench, even when things were going badly, and perhaps when we needed a bit of experience. It was a very, very strange move to bring on Parsons, at (5) wing back and leave Gardiner on the sideline. I assumed that their was some sort of bust up, and that Trev, Gardiner and McGarity were all left out of proceedings against Longford. I was sure Gardiner would be in for Howley but JOM went for a mid-fielder to play wing back. Says it all really.

I actually thought bringing on Parsons was about the only sensible move made by the sideline all day. The reason was that we already had tried McLoughlin and Howley on Paddy Dowd and both got roasted. Dowd was playing all over the place and was having a huge influence on the game. When McLoughlin was being taken off, I was actually thinking that Parsons was probably the only player that had the athleticism to stay with Down but had i been on the sideline i probably would have tried Keith Higgins on him at that stage.
To assume that the bringing on of Parsons indicated a bust up with the old-guard is a bit of a stretch and is the type of comment that will be picked up from here and eventually spouted about the county as fact.

You could be absolutely right blast, im just speculating here but it did strike me as odd. Gardiner is one of the best athletes we have and if told to following a roving player like Dowd, as he did against Dooher in the past then I think he would have done well.

Re your comments on Feeney .... i'd agree that he is about the only 1 on the board i'd have time for. He may have screwed up in the past going on Morning Ireland giving his twopence worth on Padriac Nally but aside from that, he is the type of guy we need along with a significant influx of new blood.
For those that always use Feeneys name as the first one when slating the county board - well i'd be interested in why.

We need new blood in the county board as the current officers have failed us as much as the manager and the players have failed us.

McStays suggestion of an audit from top to bottom is a step in the right direction, I also heard Billy Fitz (I think) on about nominating a director of football for the county that would oversee this and make the sweeping changes needed.

I hope the focus goes far and wide as I think that we tend to try and patch up issues rather than actually make it right at the source and and for the future.

The problems at county level filter all the way down the club ranks in Mayo. Ill echo what I said before, that our coaching structures and education at club level are a joke compared to other counties. As a county, we should be aiming for all club managers and coaches, from U-8 to senior to get their coaching badges at a decent level so that young players coming through the ranks are coached properly.

It seems in recent years we have let the standard slip in the county. Our schools teams are being well beaten by northern teams, our minors and U21s are under achieving and our Senior team is now in terminal decline.

The county boards ideas have failed. An example of a patch-up in the past was the Mayo vocational schools teams. Those teams have failed to bring on any players of note, all it it was spoil guys too young with a county shirt and put it in their heads that they made it. The idea of a Connacht centre of excellence is set-up for another failure. Who will have access to the centre of excellence but elite players who will have a notion about themselves? How is this helping football at every level in the county let alone the province?

We need to invest heavily in structures, education and coaching at under-age club level fast if this county is to go anywhere in the future. Northern teams and even Munster teams are light-years ahead of us in this capacity, and when you think about its ironic.

Its ironic because every team in the mid-nineties looked at Mayo as the well drilled, well marshalled, well trained team who was on of the first teams to adopt serious gym, strength and conditioning and fitness work. Maughan can take credit for that and for effectively changing the game and raising the bar but little did we know at the time that not only would we be copied, we would be far surpassed by other counties. 

[lynchbhoy]

I think yez are jinxed for taking ballaghadreen.
maybe give it back and you'll actually start winning games !
simple as that !

[Farrandeelin]

I think yez are jinxed for taking ballaghadreen.
maybe give it back and you'll actually start winning games !
simple as that !

Nah, sure we had that in 1936, 1950 and 1951. 

[IolarCoisCuain]

Micko for Mayo! Can't see him hanging around in Wicklow for another year.

The county board know that they would be lynched if they unveil that geriatric. They should be looking over their shoulder as it is.

Agree the board should be looking over their shoulder. And they need to be ran before anything new is put in place. But I dont think that Micko should be called anything. Everybody ends up a 'geriatric' if we're lucky enough to live long enough.

Thing about O Dwyer and his methods. They worked and they still work. As far as I know Laois and Kildare had their best success in modern times with his methods. He gave Wicklow a few better days out as well. As regards the great Kerry team he managed. Great players but would they have won as much without their fitness advantage - which like it or lump it was down to running, running, running. Never trust a footballer that complains about running, like you never trust a thin cook. I still cringe aqbout Brian Maloney s interview about how hard the cross country sessions were in Belleek. A certain GB could have been a great player if he embraced running. About 10 years ago there was a national movement of players who wanted all training done with the ball. My hole.  FFS there are men in their 40s/50s and upwards who run and train for marathons and ironmans and go through more punishment than footballer in training, just for the hell of it, to accomplish something. Whingers are no use and Micko sorted them out. American football coaches have been doing similar since the game developed. Who wants it?  Micko was right. 100%. If he cant run he s no good to ye.Dooher s game and Galvin s game is based on running. They cover the ground and then the other ammo kicks in.
A lot of those 70s/80s  kerry lads have had to have hip replacements and stuff, which is sad. So too did others who won nothing. It wasn't the laps that did them. Couldn't believe at the weekend talking about things how few local pitches are being watered during this dry period - and they are moaning about injuries. I remember training/playing on summer pitches where the winter footprints would be fossilised into baked earth ruts for the summer and not a roller or sprinkler in sight. No wonder structural damage was so common. No excuse for that any more. How much does a few lenghts of hose and a few sprinklers cost?

Well said Moysider. It's an unfortunate truth that there has always been a hint of prima dona about the so-called Mayo style. We don't really have dogs of war, and if we do, we don't play them to their most destructive advantage. Ginger Tiernan being the prime example.

Hunger is a funny thing. Stephenite was saying that you can't coach it but you can. Chuck Noll, the great coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers' in the 1970s, was able to take Joe Greene, a man with all the talent but a serious lack of focus, and turn him into a first ballot Hall of Fame with four Super Bowl rings for his trouble. That's what he saw coaching as. You can't coach talent, raw talent. But you can coach everything else.

Blast isn't sure if Jack O'Connor was right about Kerry's one year of hunger but I remember thinking it was right on the money at the time. Another American footballer man, Dan Jenkins, had a character say in a novel that it's not want to win but hatred of losing that counts. Maybe there's something in that too.

It's all very complicated but I think Moysider is right in the back to basics thinking. Run the living Christ out of yourself and find out who you are.

[Greenabovethered]

I feel that there has been an overreaction to the defeats of the past few weeks. Our demise this year is a combination of a number of smaller factors. I don't believe that we have to look at root and branch reform. Our underage results over the past 5 years have been better than average. The talk of "rebuilding" etc. is a bit far off the mark. We have a modest group of footballers, the majority of which are under 25.  Despite the annual media hype, we are not in the top eight in the country.  While the losses to Longford & Sligo are disappointing, both those teams gave Kerry a good run for their money last year.  There is no shame in losing to them.  Sligo as a collective unit is probably in the top 8. Terms bandied about like shame and rock bottom are exaggerations. Rock bottom was shipping 5 goals in Croker in1993 and falling into Division 3.

Simply analysis shows that John O'Mahony did not have the time to dedicate to two full times jobs.  The chopping and changing of personal and positions bear that out.  He didn't know his best 15 and every time I watched them nobody seemed to know what to do. There was a lack of leaders on the field and the source of this has to be the sideline. Take the league final for example; Aidan O'Shea was more often than not double teamed. We had a spare man floating for most of the game which was underutilized. Similarly against Sligo, when O'Hara went back our spare man was once again absent. 

In the past few years all of a sudden we turned into a team that hoofed high balls into our full forward.  These were hit and hope balls and not the type of balls Kerry send into Kieran Donaghy, designed for his height advantage. Overnight we went from a team that couldn't kick a ball into the forward to a team that kicked every ball into the forwards.  I felt sorry for Aidan O'Shea as the quality of ball was generally very poor. This directly led to his frustration and loss of form.

Some of the players need a break, Tom Parson, Kevin McLoughlin look jaded. Between U-21 & Senior, club, county, College over the past 4 years, they have played a lot of football and i think that explains why there is no appetite. The Mayo club Championship went on into October last year.  Our club calendar is all wrong. It is the end of June and most club teams have played 1 championship match. There should be matches every weekend except when the county team is playing. Wrapping lads up in cotton wool and playing challenge matches is nonsense.  The pace of any challenge match is never more than 3/4 speed. When we get to an All Ireland Semi final we can look at a 2 week break.

I don't believe there is any big conspiracy or big fall out to come out. It's all got a bit cosy and the tough edge has been lost.  There may have been a row at the very end but this doesn't explain 2 years of malaise.   A combination of poor management, absence of leadership and naivety of tactics have us where we have today.   There is no fear of losing, it's become the norm. 

I always like listening to Ger Loughnane talking about Clare in the 90's. It's all about inspiring players to greater things and instilling belief.  There are a lot of ordinary footballers out there that have Celtic crosses in their pockets down to belief in themselves rather than any discernable talent greater than their neighbour. What made Ciaran McDonald great was not only his talent but his belief in his own abilities.

Unfortunately I don't see that power to inspire in any of the candidates mentioned so far.

[Rossfan]

How many pages in total will all the Mayowestros anguish threads reach? 

And to think one of them made a comment earlier this year that Ros would be looking for a new manager before the Spring was out.

[ross4life]

Reading through a lot of talk about the worst period in Mayo football, can't get any lower etc....... imagine if you guys had to put up with the sh*te we had to over the last decade

[Rossfan]

At least we kept it private on our own websites not inflicting our misery on the whole country.

[muppet]

Who would you go for Moysider - dream appointment. but the only condition is that it has to be someone who is available

Cheryl Tweedy.

[Farrandeelin]

Reading through a lot of talk about the worst period in Mayo football, can't get any lower etc....... imagine if you guys had to put up with the sh*te we had to over the last decade

I'd still go to all the games.