James Horan Appointed Mayo Manager 2011

[From the Bunker]

Is it just me or is our timing always wrong with players coming through and managers to manage them....

i.e. If we had a team in 2010 with a spine of Nallen, Brady, McDonald and K.O'Neill then we would probably have a chance of winning this years AI, particularly based on the standards set so far.

I don't think the AI will take much winning this year and with no disrespect intended one of the following teams will probably win it;

Down
Dublin
Monaghan

with the likely winner the Dubs.

If only Johnno had players to select from today that we had in 96, 97 and 06.

A new manager won't make a bit of difference. We have only 3 or 4 natural footballers in the panel.

Dublin, Down, Monaghan............will win an AI? 

Jez, them counties are well off the mark yet!

On the 96-06 players Johnno still would not get them past the line as these players had 5 AI finals to sort that out and could not do it, so why would they be in a better position this year?

[meathie]

agree with brokencrossbar1, its not just the manager at fault here. Something wrong with the whole pysche of mayo footballers, year in year out, same story. Not that I think JOM is anything great, he needs to stick to politics for a while give football a miss. I really think Mayo need a confidence manager, the likes of Boylan, Harte, O Dwyer etc.

[IolarCoisCuain]

I think it is a bit cheap to take pot shots at the manager without looking at the whole picture.  Since I can remember Mayo football teams have always been lacking in bottle when things were put up to them.  They may talk that they have it but in the last 20 years I have seen so many different Mayo team capitulate at different times.  They are there or thereabouts until a certain point and then they seem to disappear, nearly like they are afraid to win because if they won then they would have nothing to complain about!  I recall an incident I was involved in where there was a bit of "trash talking" going on betwene myself, a team mate and a prominent Mayo footballer at the time.  This man physically shrank as we kept reminding him how Mayo teams always lose big games, it was a strange sight but the same man didin't go for the next few balls.  This seems like an ingrained inferiority complex that has been fed by the media and players have become used to hearing "Will Mayo ever make the breakthrough?"  and they cannot get away from it.  I cannot see an answer for this apart from banning media in Mayo for 10 years, and that may be a flippant comment but the reality is that I believe that deep down there is a sense of failure and a willingness to find a scapegoat before a ball has been kicked.

I think you're being a superficial here.

Your point is that Mayo always lose big games. So how do you define big games?

Mayo lost all those All-Irelands sure, but they had to win a few big games to get there in the first place, don't you think?

Also, if you look at All-Irelands I think you'll see that they weren't all choke jobs. In fact I would only put 1997 down as a choke per say (and an unwillingness to foul Maurice Fitzgerald, as was pointed out to my friends and me when we stopped off in Ballivor, Co Meath, on the way home that night, I might add). 2006 I'm not sure Mayo could have won. Kerry were pretty good that year. 2004 Mayo were looking for trouble in their team selection and golly Brokencrossbar, I'd say they were a biteen unlucky in both games in 1996.

You might get that fella that physically shrank to see the doctor, btw. Very rare condition, shrinking. Did he go down bones and all, or did the flesh just sort of tighten over the bones, like one of those vacuum bags that are so handy for packing? I'd get him to see the doc either way. Just for his own sake, like.

[talktothehand]

Is it just me or is our timing always wrong with players coming through and managers to manage them....

i.e. If we had a team in 2010 with a spine of Nallen, Brady, McDonald and K.O'Neill then we would probably have a chance of winning this years AI, particularly based on the standards set so far.

I don't think the AI will take much winning this year and with no disrespect intended one of the following teams will probably win it;

Down
Dublin
Monaghan
with the likely winner the Dubs.

If only Johnno had players to select from today that we had in 96, 97 and 06.

A new manager won't make a bit of difference. We have only 3 or 4 natural footballers in the panel.

well you put money on it then. for me, it'll be either kerry, cork or tyrone!!!

[spectator]

I was reminded of the strange genie that burst forth from the Mayo bottle back in 1989, when I chanced upon that year's Mayo Yearbook recently.  It makes for interesting reading.

From the moment Mayo put back to back Connacht titles together that summer - following a classic extra-time replay win in Hyde Park - a mania descended upon the county.

They'd always been super optimists in Mayo – which gave us many a chuckle down the years - but '89 saw that optimism raised an extra notch or two if that were possible.

1989 was the first occasion for Mayo to win back to back provincial titles since the hallowed year of '51. It was interpreted by Mayoites as a sure sign that, as in '51, Sam would soon be following on. In fact, you get the sense of its inevitability rising off the pages and indeed, that was the feeling amongst the Mayo followers around the place at the time too. It was a time of heightened optimism for them.

Sam would be the missing piece in the jigsaw. The transformation of Mayo into a county of modern prosperous people would be complete when Sam Maguire was brought home again. Knock Airport had been opened earlier in the decade against all the odds. Flying Sam in one September soon would complete the metamorphosis of the county and its people.

Ulster opponents Tyrone were targeted in the AISF & sure enough, an All-Ireland place was attained.

Mayoites talk to this day of Anthony Larry's missed goal chance, but the talk amongst the players was of several spurned point scoring opportunities following his first goal, as being the real reason Sam wasn't won that day.

There was also much talk of 'Keeping The Faith' back in '89 – ye're all familiar with the famous photo which shows a young Johnno looking totally gutted after the final whistle was blown...

The team returned to Mayo, on a special Ryanair flight into Knock Airport, which was greeted by an astonishing 10,000 people. There then commenced ongoing celebratory functions for the team, at every crossroads and village pub the length and breadth of the county. Mayo is a damn big county & it took the team several months to get around to everywhere.

Tellingly, everyone was declared to be delighted and proud that they'd managed to come to within a few points of Cork. Not only that, but hadn't they taken over Dublin and didn't the neutrals love them for their plucky showing!

Mayoites in the capital would now be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with their Jackeen counterparts in the city bars.

Yup, they were halcyon days for natives of the county in the aftermath of the '89 AI defeat. Mayo people could puff out their chests and take pride in who they were. And sure never mind the loss, it wasn't a loss really, wouldn't Sam soon inevitably be coming home again.

Disconcertingly though, one photo in the yearbook shows team captain Jimmy Browne fighting back the tears at the welcome his own people gave the team, upon their arrival in Ballina.

Nine years earlier, we had seen our own Rossie team fail in an All-Ireland final. The homecoming on the following night was a bittersweet occasion. While proud of our lads achievement in reaching the final, there was no celebrating the defeat to Kerry. It was a formality that had to be endured. Needless to say, the celebrations of the Mayoites after their own loss was very strange and puzzling to us back in '89.

Anyway, enough of such palaver. I have to say I feel a bit sorry for Johnno in his current predicament.

I wonder what he'd give for more innocent times, when leading Mayo to AIF defeat was celebrated by Mayo people as much, if not more so, than winning Sam Maguire itself.

Back in 1989 Johnno brought Mayo to their first All-Ireland final since 1951. He unwittingly unleashed a monster, which could well devour him sometime soon, one feels.

As for politics,  it's the most treacherous profession of them all – the hand that clapped you on the back yesterday will be the hand sinking the knife into your back today, nothing surer.

[Farrandeelin]

I was only 2 back then spectator. However, my dad blames O'Mahony for losing that final in 89 for leaving John Finn on his man for too long. Needles to say I haven't seen the game and my dad said the homecomings were ridiculously stupid for a losing team.

[moysider]

I don t remember doing any celebrating '89. There is always enough ludramáns about though for a free show and a piss up. Football people at the time were disappointed and annoyed at a golden opportunity let slip. Johnno got a lot of blame for the loss to be honest and those same people have never really trusted him since. What was more annoying over the following 2 years was how the team was allowed to disintegrate without any success at introducing new players. It took 4 years to recover from Johnno s term the last time. A similar transition again would see us up to 2015 before we shake off the malaise of the last 4 years and assuming he stays on next year as well.

[spectator]

Football people at the time were disappointed and annoyed at a golden opportunity let slip. Johnno got a lot of blame for the loss to be honest and those same people have never really trusted him since.

How was he blamed moysider & what did he not do which caused the defeat? Who has never really trusted him since as a result?

What was more annoying over the following 2 years was how the team was allowed to disintegrate without any success at introducing new players. It took 4 years to recover from Johnno s term the last time.

Not disagreeing with what you've said there, but according to the editor of The Western People Mayo were well set up to be All-Ireland champs in 1991 ...


"John O'Mahony's first period in charge came a cropper in 1991 when Derek Duggan's long range free-kick effectively dumped Mayo out of the championship. I have always believed that had Mayo emerged from Connacht that year they might have been genuine contenders in an All-Ireland semi-final against an aging Meath team exhausted after their epic struggle with Dublin. At any rate,Mayo bowed out and John O'Mahony fell foul of the county board (or was it the other way around?), thus inaugurating a ten-year period that saw five different managers at the helm."

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eygbeyidgb


Has the 1991 row ever been gone into in any detail? Wasn't it effectively a power struggle between Johnno & the county board over whether Johnno would be allowed to pick his own selectors, iirc?

[Farrandeelin]

Who has never really trusted him since as a result?

My old boy spectator. He said he should never have been given the job in 07, no wonder he has gone to only a handful of games. He really has a grudge against him for losing the 89 final and possibly allowing the whole thing disintegrate afterwards.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Football people at the time were disappointed and annoyed at a golden opportunity let slip. Johnno got a lot of blame for the loss to be honest and those same people have never really trusted him since.

How was he blamed moysider & what did he not do which caused the defeat? Who has never really trusted him since as a result?

What was more annoying over the following 2 years was how the team was allowed to disintegrate without any success at introducing new players. It took 4 years to recover from Johnno s term the last time.

Not disagreeing with what you've said there, but according to the editor of The Western People Mayo were well set up to be All-Ireland champs in 1991 ...


"John O'Mahony's first period in charge came a cropper in 1991 when Derek Duggan's long range free-kick effectively dumped Mayo out of the championship. I have always believed that had Mayo emerged from Connacht that year they might have been genuine contenders in an All-Ireland semi-final against an aging Meath team exhausted after their epic struggle with Dublin. At any rate,Mayo bowed out and John O'Mahony fell foul of the county board (or was it the other way around?), thus inaugurating a ten-year period that saw five different managers at the helm."

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eygbeyidgb


Has the 1991 row ever been gone into in any detail? Wasn't it effectively a power struggle between Johnno & the county board over whether Johnno would be allowed to pick his own selectors, iirc?

Who trusted him? I trusted him. I don't think I was alone. I listened to Radio Johnno, I bought the whole Messiah stuff. Maybe that makes me a fool. I don't know. When I trusted him I thought he was getting the job to take a fine team the extra yard, rather than destroy it and leave nothing in its place. Maybe that makes me a fool. God help me, he's not the only wrong horse I backed.

BTW - I'm sure even the editor of the Western People would never claim to speak for the county, and would be the first man to point out that the views he expresses are purely his own.

[moysider]

Football people at the time were disappointed and annoyed at a golden opportunity let slip. Johnno got a lot of blame for the loss to be honest and those same people have never really trusted him since.

How was he blamed moysider & what did he not do which caused the defeat? Who has never really trusted him since as a result?

What was more annoying over the following 2 years was how the team was allowed to disintegrate without any success at introducing new players. It took 4 years to recover from Johnno s term the last time.

Not disagreeing with what you've said there, but according to the editor of The Western People Mayo were well set up to be All-Ireland champs in 1991 ...


"John O'Mahony's first period in charge came a cropper in 1991 when Derek Duggan's long range free-kick effectively dumped Mayo out of the championship. I have always believed that had Mayo emerged from Connacht that year they might have been genuine contenders in an All-Ireland semi-final against an aging Meath team exhausted after their epic struggle with Dublin. At any rate,Mayo bowed out and John O'Mahony fell foul of the county board (or was it the other way around?), thus inaugurating a ten-year period that saw five different managers at the helm."

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eygbeyidgb


Has the 1991 row ever been gone into in any detail? Wasn't it effectively a power struggle between Johnno & the county board over whether Johnno would be allowed to pick his own selectors, iirc?

He was blamed for a few things. Starting a hamstrung TJ at 6. Failing to move a struggling Finn. Of the hb line only a brilliant Michael Collins performed. Collins was underused and only got a place after Frank Noone got injured in the C. final. Collins should have been a fixture on that team for a decade - what we wouldn't give for him now. Our Cbs were roasted without any action being taken. We had experienced men on the bench that would have given their last ounce for a celtic cross and settled the team in the second half. I m talking about Martin Carney and Denis Kearney. Ironically an old man- Denis Allen- lifted the cup for Cork. Johnno turned to kids for subs. No wonder the board would nt allow him choose his own selectors - sorry, I mean yes- men. His story was the consultative process on the sideline lasted too long- too much debate among selectors. If we had selectors with back bone now McDangergate would never have happened and we d be in a much better place now overall. Those who were livid back then and are resigned now were football men. Lads who played and managed teams. One was a former AI winning captain.

[Beard]

Mayo's demise since the league final has looked very like some of Rscommon's collapses in the earlier part of this decade where poor defeats in the latter stages of the league have been followed up by championship capitulations of harrowing proportions. The confidence was completely gone and they had no interest in trying to salvage the game in the latter stages. I do not expect Mayo to make significant progress in the qualifiers.

Mayo are going to arrive at a cross roads pretty soon where they will have the following options as I see it:-

a.) hang on to the same under achieving players who have played within the comfort zone and settle for a diet of mediocre connacht champioship football followed by 3 or 4 point all-ireland quarter finals defeats to teams like Meath and Donegal from which people will walk away deluding themselves that next year will be different;

b.) do a roscommon and collapse into a never ending horror story where you have to check aertel to make sure it's not broken when you see that Cavan have scored 2-20 against you in a league game;

c.) do something like what Dublin are doing now, pick form players, forget about reputations, scour the county, scour outside the county (didn't a Mayo man score two points agianst you on Saturday), pick players who want to win not just be county men strolling about in a county track suit; and

d.) do something else that I haven't thought of.

Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens but I suspect O'Mahony's message, whatever that happens to be is falling on deaf ears at the moment.

[moysider]

Football people at the time were disappointed and annoyed at a golden opportunity let slip. Johnno got a lot of blame for the loss to be honest and those same people have never really trusted him since.

How was he blamed moysider & what did he not do which caused the defeat? Who has never really trusted him since as a result?

What was more annoying over the following 2 years was how the team was allowed to disintegrate without any success at introducing new players. It took 4 years to recover from Johnno s term the last time.

Not disagreeing with what you've said there, but according to the editor of The Western People Mayo were well set up to be All-Ireland champs in 1991 ...


"John O'Mahony's first period in charge came a cropper in 1991 when Derek Duggan's long range free-kick effectively dumped Mayo out of the championship. I have always believed that had Mayo emerged from Connacht that year they might have been genuine contenders in an All-Ireland semi-final against an aging Meath team exhausted after their epic struggle with Dublin. At any rate,Mayo bowed out and John O'Mahony fell foul of the county board (or was it the other way around?), thus inaugurating a ten-year period that saw five different managers at the helm."

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eygbeyidgb


Has the 1991 row ever been gone into in any detail? Wasn't it effectively a power struggle between Johnno & the county board over whether Johnno would be allowed to pick his own selectors, iirc?

Who trusted him? I trusted him. I don't think I was alone. I listened to Radio Johnno, I bought the whole Messiah stuff. Maybe that makes me a fool. I don't know. When I trusted him I thought he was getting the job to take a fine team the extra yard, rather than destroy it and leave nothing in its place. Maybe that makes me a fool. God help me, he's not the only wrong horse I backed.

BTW - I'm sure even the editor of the Western People would never claim to speak for the county, and would be the first man to point out that the views he expresses are purely his own.

It doesn't make you a fool Iolar. Most people bought into it that I can see. Why  did you though ?

[the Deel Rover]

its amazing the tone of the posts in this thread compared to the 1st fer pages of posts in the mayo discussion page that was started back in 2006 when most posters were hoping and waiting for the  messiah to make his mind up on whether he would take the job of not after micky moran was shafted  well 4 years later we now know he aint no messiah . his 4 years in charge have been a disaster yet becuase of his previous recored with galway some people still think he must be a good manager  i don't know why ( i can't remember too much about 1989) but i never really wanted him as manager mainly because he was always putting pressure on the manager in charge with his weekly column in the western people and his radio show ( i see the western still is giving him a soft ride) also the way he didn't take the job in 2005/2006 yet micky moran gets us to an Ai an d johnno decides that fall that yeah i'd like that gig afterall but on my terms because i'm the messia.it will be interesting to see what happens  this year will the county board honour his new 2 year deal i fully expect them to as there will be an election sometime soon

[moysider]

its amazing the tone of the posts in this thread compared to the 1st fer pages of posts in the mayo discussion page that was started back in 2006 when most posters were hoping and waiting for the  messiah to make his mind up on whether he would take the job of not after micky moran was shafted  well 4 years later we now know he aint no messiah . his 4 years in charge have been a disaster yet becuase of his previous recored with galway some people still think he must be a good manager  i don't know why ( i can't remember too much about 1989) but i never really wanted him as manager mainly because he was always putting pressure on the manager in charge with his weekly column in the western people and his radio show ( i see the western still is giving him a soft ride) also the way he didn't take the job in 2005/2006 yet micky moran gets us to an Ai an d johnno decides that fall that yeah i'd like that gig afterall but on my terms because i'm the messia.it will be interesting to see what happens  this year will the county board honour his new 2 year deal i fully expect them to as there will be an election sometime soon

It's unbelievable. You couldn't make this shit up. A game and jersey that we used to love has been used as a way to a political means with the imprimatur of the county board. And maybe yet after this Summers debacle ends as well. I m not politically that bothered ( I should be but ....), so probably this fucks my head more than most. The damning thing is that playing careers have been whittled away and we've lost championship matches we never should  have - and not just one or two.