BBC V RTE on croke park opening

lawnseed 2 · February 12, 2007, 10:21:16 PM

any one else notice on rte mick hogan after whom the hogan stand was named was murdered by black and tans and auxilleries. ten minutes later he was "killed" by british troops in retalliation for the killing of 15 british agents by micheal collins and co. the question is was he killed or was he murdered. "killed" suggests that he may have been shot accidentially (3 times) or that he may have been involved in a gun battle and just got togged out for effect. either way the beeb presented a nice sanitised presentation for all those in good old blighty, neatly side steping the fact that gaa members have been the victoms of murder and brutality at the hands of crown forces and their cohorts since the foundation right up until the present day.
all media have latched on to this new ireland shite and moving on stuff. yes im all in favor of moving on but for the life of me apart from the money (of which my lowly club will never see a shilling) i just cant see how we are promoting gaelic games and irish culture by hiring out our stadium. while listening to bbc radio artifical statelet today the question arose why can norn iron not use casement park while windsor park is being revamped and the presenter said " the answer is quite obvious its because its not ALL SEATER". they just dont get it do they? almost a hundred years after hogan was murdered in cold blood in front of women and children and they cant say the word murdered.. but if we're stuck well maybe we could get the lend of their pitch. and if they dont give it we'll portray them as bigots. these feckers drive me nuts
either way i sleep alot easier after sunday once the novelty value of seeing garrison games played in croker wears off i dont think either code will want our stadium. basically i dont think rugger or soccer are good enough games to pull crowds of 80000 plus on a regular basis. but i do envy the tv and newsprint coverage they get now thats promoting your sport!

GalwayBayBoy · February 13, 2007, 01:36:12 AM

I thought the BBC did a very nice job with their piece about the history of the stadium before the match.

It's not the job of the BBC sports department to give an A to Z of Anglo-Irish relations from the Easter rising up to today.

Quotei dont think rugger or soccer are good enough games to pull crowds of 80000 plus on a regular basis.

By that logic neither is Gaelic games. How often is Croke Park completely sold out during the year? You could probably count it on one hand.

Hardy · February 13, 2007, 08:43:30 AM

I agree with GalwayBayBoy. This seems like another case of going out of your way to be outraged. I was very impressed with BBC's coverage. I didn't see RTE's. The possibility of inadvertently shipping an incoming Ryle Nugent soundbite before reaching the remote was just too dangerous.

I thought the BBC coverage went out of its way, and much further than I anticipated, to do justice to the history of Croke Park and the GAA. As regards the language used, it stated (I'm quoting – I have the tape) "British police auxiliaries and Black and Tans opened fire on the innocent crowd in Croke Park. Fourteen died, amongst them the Tipperary Captain, Michael Hogan". This commentary runs over footage of civilians in hospital after the attack, including one child. I can't see how this can be seen as an attempt to justify the killing.

Star Spangler · February 13, 2007, 09:27:05 AM

Quoteten minutes later he was "killed" by british troops in retalliation for the killing of 15 british agents by micheal collins and co

Actually they said the civilians were killed but the British agents were murdered.

Despite GalwayBayBoy's assertion that the BBC sports department don't understand history it was obviously deliberate. This kind of thing should be highlighted. Assuming it was accidental or they didn't know what they were doing is naive.

DUBSFORSAM1 · February 13, 2007, 09:32:49 AM

and we say the British agents were killed and the supporters were murdered....

OirthearMhaigheo · February 13, 2007, 09:37:01 AM

I agree with you aswell GBB, I thought the BBC did a decent job in highlighting the history of the stadium. Not that it would have been right, but they could have ignored the historical side completely, focused on the game and no one across the Irish sea would have been any the wiser. At least they gave the English some insight into why this was such a massive day in Ireland and why there is still some resentment towards them over here, because in truth, most English people haven't a clue about the history between us.

Hardy · February 13, 2007, 09:54:46 AM

If you're referring to BBC1's scene-setting piece before the match, the word "murder" wasn't used, as far as I can find. John Inverdale (?) says, "it's time for a history lesson" and they go to a piece by Craig Doyle, largely using footage from the documentary on the Croke Park opening screened by RTÉ on Thursday night, when it's not Doyle talking to camera. In the piece relevant to Bloody Sunday, Doyle is walking around Croke Park, talking about Hill 16 and the rubble from the rising, etc. Then he points to the Hogan Stand and here's the exact transcript of what he says about Bloody Sunday, in full:

"Over there we have the Hogan Stand, which commemorates one of the most shocking and bloodiest episodes in Irish History. Sunday the 21st of November, 1920. Dublin were playing Tipperary in Croke Park. But the city was tense, as fourteen British intelligence officers had been killed that morning by Michael Collins' hit squad. In response that afternoon, British police auxiliaries and Black and Tans opened fire on the innocent crowd in Croke Park. Fourteen died, amongst them theTipperary captain, Michael Hogan. It became known as 'Bloody Sunday'."

Star Spangler · February 13, 2007, 10:05:04 AM

QuoteIf you're referring to BBC1's scene-setting piece before the match, the word "murder" wasn't used, as far as I can find.

Hardy, the word actually was used as we even rewinded it on Sky+ to sure we heard them right! It wasn't in the Craig Doyle piece though - it was a piece where they were using old footage from the time.

GrandMasterFlash · February 13, 2007, 10:05:29 AM

Is there any footage of this documentary on the web does anyone know? Thanks.

Hardy · February 13, 2007, 10:10:37 AM

Spangler - was it in the pre-match coverage on Sunday? I have the whole thing on tape, so if you can confirm it's that programme, I'll find it.

In any case, I still say that it's ludicrous to suggest that the BBC's coverage was some sort of whitewash or justification of the Croke Park killings as a response to the Cairo Gang killings. If that's what they were trying to do, why would they use the words "innocent crowd" to refer to the people in Croke Park and show footage of wounded civilians and children?

Star Spangler · February 13, 2007, 10:17:38 AM

It is in the pre-match build-up, yes.

I think most people who grew up in Northern Ireland are well used to hearing (and spotting) the BBC's selective use of terminology over the years. It happens so consistently it can't be anything other than deliberate.

Hardy · February 13, 2007, 10:21:35 AM

Thanks.

Why the use of "innocent", then and the pictures of wounded civilians?

You're right, though, about the selective language. But we all have our shibboleths. I remember noting the seismic shift, during the peace process, when RTE changed its standard terminology from 'RUC men' to 'policemen'.

GalwayBayBoy · February 13, 2007, 12:03:05 PM

I think it was John Inverdale who did the BBC piece not Craig Doyle wasn't it?

Personally I thought it was better than what RTE tried pre-match although the documentary on the opening of Croke Park thaa was shown on RTE was very good also.

An Gaeilgoir · February 13, 2007, 12:07:17 PM

Have to agree GalwayBayBoy, i though the B.B.C coverage was very good and it didnt shy away from the facts. Fair play to them.

behind the wire · February 13, 2007, 12:20:44 PM

have to agree with lawnseed completely. cant help but notice that some of the board members are a bit like the bbc, happy enough to put a nice wee gloss on it. eamonn dunphy was on tv the other night, his grand father was there on bloddy sunday and it was obvious the effect the stories his grandfather told had on him. perhaps if some of you had to run from crossmaglen pitch aged 14 because an army helicopter wanted to land you might take a different attitude. its part of history, dont forget the true meaning, despite the efforts of the bbc.