IS JOHN O'MAHONY OVERRATED AS A MANAGER???

[moysider]

Let me ask this of the Mayo lads who are complaining about JOM, what exactly is he doing wrong and how would you improve it?

M&M and Maughan also got dogs abuse and they also did quite well, could it be simply that Mayo don't have teh players and no manager would win them an AI at the moment?

In fairness Zulu it wasn't today or yesterday that I and a few others had issue with this management. I think it was yourself Zulu ( could be mistaken here) that agreed about my reservations about our fitness coach last year. I also pointed out how things could be improved as well. In fact I outlined a few easy steps on the league final tread that would be a quick and easy start.
Maughan did get abuse no doubt though in my own case I feel he was mostly unlucky in the 90s and maybe lost his way a bit later on. I dont remember M&M getting much flack. There was a coup organised within the county board to get him out of the way of course but I believe most supporters had the height of time for him and how far we progressed that Summer before we hit a wall in Sept. And to be honest I don' t think this is about AIs being expected any time soon. It s about things like pride, honesty and responsibility. For the first time ever I believe the Mayo public have abandoned the county team in large numbers. Where even in the leanest years Mayo players could walk tall around the county, now they tend to be the objects of cynicism, fun and even worse pity. Even in their own parishes. The mood was poisonous last Sunday night - not disappointed.
Iolar is obviously disappointed in the way things have worked out. He would have welcomed this appointment as did a lot of people. Now people are realising that there is more to this managing a modern team than past glories and dumbing down expectations and guff about rebuilding. Football has moved on even since 2001. A lot. Even royalty like Down have realised they must adopt a more realistic approach and their lovely old style was leaving them behind. Mayo have to move on sometime and stop believing in ghosts. Instead of exorcists in the dressing room we need a coach and a top fitness trainer. Johnno should have put those in place. That would improve things. 

[REDCOL]

Iorlar, your condition on naming the shirt numbers makes it impossible to have a bet who knows who will wear 8 and who will wear 9 for example, but I will name 15 players who I believe will play and if i dont get 12 right  i will happily give 100 euro to cancer care west

David Clarke                   Andy Moran
Keith Higgins                  Aidan O Se
Donal Vaughan              Conor Mortimer
Kevin Mc Loughlin          Ger Cafferkey
Seamus O Se                Peadar Gardiner
Ronan Mc Garrity           Enda Varley
Alan Dillion                 
Trevor Howley
Trevor Mortimer

[Terry Tate]

Let me ask this of the Mayo lads who are complaining about JOM, what exactly is he doing wrong and how would you improve it?

M&M and Maughan also got dogs abuse and they also did quite well, could it be simply that Mayo don't have teh players and no manager would win them an AI at the moment?

Zulu. an opinion from a part time supporter!

I think we are missing 3 players who can make a big difference whether that is good enough to win the all-ireland or not i am not sure. I would imagine that with the inclusion of a couple of real leaders the majority of the team would play with more confidence and as a result much better. I am thinking that we need a real full back and centre back. We currently do not have either. Possibly if the current no. 3 was at 6 he could become that player we need. We also need a number 11 but and until he returns from Brisbane we won't have one.

I think SOS and MCG will become a very good midfield partnership that will be a match for anyone. If MCG can add some pounds so he can stand his ground he would be as good as any midfielder in the country.

So to answer you're questions.

I can't rightly say what JOM is doing wrong because I dont know what instructions/coaching he is giving to the players, but for some reason he is persisting with certain players in positions that are not able for it. The league was the chance to try something completely different but the team has not changed a whole lot since last year.

You are right about not having the players to win the A.I. If half the cork team fecked off altogether we would be in with a good chance though.

[Zulu]

The last ten games don't matter Iolar, they were probably played by vastly different teams. That was a Cork team short Canty, Pierce O'Neill, Lynch, Miskella and Colm O'Neill all major players for Cork last year and they still won handy. The point I'm making is that you can't criticize a manager just because he hasn't achieved what all supporters want - the AI.

Mayo have an average midfield, no top notch scoring forward and issues about center back and full back. Nobody would win an AI with those weaknesses, the question is whether JOM is getting the most out of what he has and I think he is, give or take. Getting to a league final was a fair achievement, done without some of Mayo's better players it should be remembered. That ye lost to Cork is no shame, they will hammer a few counties this year of that you can be sure. IMO opinion Cork will change the face of football in the same way that Armagh and Tyrone, in particular, did. They'll raise the bar on what it takes to win an AI.

Mayo are as good as most counties in Ireland and if they had SON and B Brogan upfront I'd give ye a punchers chance against even Cork but ye don't O'Shea is a decent target man but little more and C Mort is a supporting cast forward not a star. I'm not saying JOM is doing everything right, I don't know enough about the set up to comment but I do know he hasn't the players to win an AI or beat Cork.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Iorlar, your condition on naming the shirt numbers makes it impossible to have a bet who knows who will wear 8 and who will wear 9 for example, but I will name 15 players who I believe will play and if i dont get 12 right  i will happily give 100 euro to cancer care west

David Clarke                   Andy Moran
Keith Higgins                  Aidan O Se
Donal Vaughan              Conor Mortimer
Kevin Mc Loughlin          Ger Cafferkey
Seamus O Se                Peadar Gardiner
Ronan Mc Garrity           Enda Varley
Alan Dillion                 
Trevor Howley
Trevor Mortimer

You're hustling me Red, you're hustling me, but I can't give out about Johnno not standing up to be counted if I run and hide myself. The bet is on.

[IolarCoisCuain]

The last ten games don't matter Iolar, they were probably played by vastly different teams. That was a Cork team short Canty, Pierce O'Neill, Lynch, Miskella and Colm O'Neill all major players for Cork last year and they still won handy. The point I'm making is that you can't criticize a manager just because he hasn't achieved what all supporters want - the AI.

Mayo have an average midfield, no top notch scoring forward and issues about center back and full back. Nobody would win an AI with those weaknesses, the question is whether JOM is getting the most out of what he has and I think he is, give or take. Getting to a league final was a fair achievement, done without some of Mayo's better players it should be remembered. That ye lost to Cork is no shame, they will hammer a few counties this year of that you can be sure. IMO opinion Cork will change the face of football in the same way that Armagh and Tyrone, in particular, did. They'll raise the bar on what it takes to win an AI.

Mayo are as good as most counties in Ireland and if they had SON and B Brogan upfront I'd give ye a punchers chance against even Cork but ye don't O'Shea is a decent target man but little more and C Mort is a supporting cast forward not a star. I'm not saying JOM is doing everything right, I don't know enough about the set up to comment but I do know he hasn't the players to win an AI or beat Cork.

The 10/10 crack bothered me Zulu, although I see the validity in a lot of what you say there, of course.

[Zulu]

In fairness Zulu it wasn't today or yesterday that I and a few others had issue with this management. I think it was yourself Zulu ( could be mistaken here) that agreed about my reservations about our fitness coach last year.

That was me alright Moysider and I'm not saying JOM is doing everything 100% but there isn't a 100% right way of doing it, if there was everyone would be at it. I do think he is doing a pretty good job though and I do think that Mayo lads need to look at their players more critically. In fairness Mayo have flopped in big games under three different mangers so the fault must lie with them more than the managers.

And what about the underage development in the county, are the players being put on weight training programs to build up the size and strength required for senior football. Are good players being coached on their weaknesses or being taught how to play to different systems?

I think Mayo's problems are beyond the capabilities of any man to solve at senior level, the problem lies further back. IMO their wasn't one outstanding footballer in any of teh minor or U21 teams of recent years, despite their success, plaenty of good footbalers but no outstanding ones and that is a major problem.

[criostlinn]

Just going of thread for a second.

I have read it in this thread and others, people using Aidan Campbell's exclusion from the panel as a reason to knock O'Mahoney. Aidan Campbell should not be within an asses roar of the Mayo panel at the moment. He has done absolutley nothing to merit a place and until he puts his head down and starts concentrating on football he will never get in the panel again. How people think John O'Mahoney is meant to baby sit lads like this is beyond me.

[moysider]

You've been well and truly hustled Iolar. Only injuries can save you. Maybe 12 was a bit much to expect anybody to get but your point was valid. I think most people could get 10 or more right in the case of Kerry and Tyrone. Cork on the other hand have so many good options it would be a different proposition altogether. Its possible their midfield that started the last day - including mom, wont start v kerry in Champ. We re all over the place for a different reason.

[IolarCoisCuain]

You've been well and truly hustled Iolar. Only injuries can save you. Maybe 12 was a bit much to expect anybody to get but your point was valid. I think most people could get 10 or more right in the case of Kerry and Tyrone. Cork on the other hand have so many good options it would be a different proposition altogether. Its possible their midfield that started the last day - including mom, wont start v kerry in Champ. We re all over the place for a different reason.

I have no complaints Moysider. Redcol is a gentleman and a sportsman for putting his money where his mouth and I salute him absolutely for that - it's a terrific cause, and one I recommend to anyone here.

I'll be sweating here for the next five weeks but you wouldn't know. Maybe the Killer, Ronaldo and big Barry Moran might save my bacon yet? Up Mayo.

[moysider]

You've been well and truly hustled Iolar. Only injuries can save you. Maybe 12 was a bit much to expect anybody to get but your point was valid. I think most people could get 10 or more right in the case of Kerry and Tyrone. Cork on the other hand have so many good options it would be a different proposition altogether. Its possible their midfield that started the last day - including mom, wont start v kerry in Champ. We re all over the place for a different reason.

I have no complaints Moysider. Redcol is a gentleman and a sportsman for putting his money where his mouth and I salute him absolutely for that - it's a terrific cause, and one I recommend to anyone here.

I'll be sweating here for the next five weeks but you wouldn't know. Maybe the Killer, Ronaldo and big Barry Moran might save my bacon yet? Up Mayo.

Yeah, and maybe Johnno has been on the phone to Heaney and Aidan Higgins. Because that is what he needs to do. You d wonder how serious we are in this county about the championship. Serious counties like Kerry make sure they get Michael McCarty back and you can be sure if Dara could raise a gallop he would have been back as well. But it was obvious his engine was running on vapors last year. In fact he was like Cúchulainn strapped to the stone - apparently finished but nobody was taking any chances with him. They get the last ounce out of their main players. I make it that 5/6 of Kerry s starting backs will be 30yrs or more. That may be seen as a weakness as well of course but its good to have the men when the goin gets tough.

[rosnarun]

Just going of thread for a second.

I have read it in this thread and others, people using Aidan Campbell's exclusion from the panel as a reason to knock O'Mahoney. Aidan Campbell should not be within an asses roar of the Mayo panel at the moment. He has done absolutley nothing to merit a place and until he puts his head down and starts concentrating on football he will never get in the panel again. How people think John O'Mahoney is meant to baby sit lads like this is beyond me.

of course O'mahony should babysit he should also harass sweet talk lie cheat steal in order to get the best team because that what a good manager does.
you can get away with just being a p***k if your delivering titles or at least improving the team he has done neother
. he has cut adrift the kilcullens a higgins and Campbell not to mention mayo greatest ever player in Mcdonald
why?
was it to act the hard man in the dressing room to show who  was boss and make every one respect his authority . if it was it was a failure just like every ting else he has done with MAyo team.
and i dont give a fiddlers how many al Ireland Padraig Joyce and M Donnellan won.
Mickey moran got mayo to an all Ireland final and got the booth O mahony lost 2 league finals and has got nowhere in the Championship.
how can any one defend that

[stephenite]

It's my understanding that any football manager would not entertain Aidan Campbell and some of his antics - it's also my understanding that he will never play for Mayo whilst one high profile Co. Board member is still breathing.

Ciaran Mac and A Higgins were too old even three years ago and their inability to listen to instructions and do what they were told counted against them.

JOM has a history of getting the best out of players that want to play for him, young fellas like Campbell should not be entertained and the fact that he's even being discussed shows the desperation that some will go to in order to ridicule the current set up. It might deserve the ridicule after last weekend but can we shut up about players like Ciaran Mac and Higgins (too old) and fcuing Aidan Campbell who has proved f**k all at Senior inter county level.

[seafoid]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. People forget that Galway had carried a stench of failure about them just as bad as anything you could say about Mayo, e.g. losing to 12 man Dublin. Under O'Mahony they got to the point where they shattered the aura of invincibility that Sean Boylan's Meath carried around.
[/quote]

It wasn't just about putting Meath to the sword on the national stage in the great cathedral in front of 70,000 people. It was also about the mental anguish that was inflicted on Meath and still causes a wince in Meath people nine years on when the wound is reopened around championship time.  It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[deiseach]

It wasn't just about putting Meath to the sword on the national stage in the great cathedral in front of 70,000 people. It was also about the mental anguish that was inflicted on Meath and still causes a wince in Meath people nine years on when the wound is reopened around championship time.  It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Ah yes, I remember it well. My flatmate at the time, an inveterate Meath-hater, went in to a pub to watch the match (this was in Liverpool) with a sour look on his face. The moment he walked back through the door I knew the result. And I rejoiced with him.

It should be noted that the only time Meath have regained that swagger was against Mayo last year. Christ, there was a Mayo lad sitting near me in the Hogan Stand and I wanted to go over and give him a hug.