Cluiche ceannais na sraithe: Corcaigh v Maigh Eo

[lynchbhoy]

Cork have serious talent and while imo they didnt play that well yesterday they deserved the win.
I'll write more about them in the months to come I hope.
Its good to see honesty from the Mayo lads on here. There will be differences of opinion on who is good etc but my own view is that there were a few positives.
The defence was very tight for most of the game. Some good individual performances and to be fair the mayo midfield were good inthe first half and the breaking ball exploits of mayo during the whole game meant they wont a lot more of that ball than cork.

Mayo looked fitter and sharper in the first half. That would worry me that they have peaked fitness wise.  A gamble to get them fit to help give confidence. It may pay off.
I was unimpressed with Trevor mortimer (maybe because of early inj) and the small corner forward. Nice little player but prob too small. FF too slow and not a natural score getter it seems (or natural passer). Conor mortimer made himself look good by getting a couple of nice scores from frees,but he was poor from play and I wouldnt pick a man like that - no matter his rep.
Also too many mayo men were moaning looking for frees, telling the ref they were pushed etc.
That drives me nuts to see any team or man do this, their mind is not on the game and when making excuses while on the field shows they are not confident or focused on the job.

Mayo have a few good man to come in, and while I dont rate mcgarrity as a midfielder, I'd say either he or harte might be a good bet for chf. Maybe as someone says promote mclaughlin to wing half forward, but as he looks good where he is, why not leave him there.
Mayo did well to improve themselves to this point. there could be more in the tank. Over to JOM.
For cork, D O'Connor looked superb. the rest were average by their own standards. Fair play to mayo for keeping them in check. cork need to find themselves as a team unit if they are to win the AI over the slightly depleted Kerry and the lurking Tyrone.

Overall the nfl div finals yielded a massive amount of scores this weekend. The least winnin score was 17 points, the least losing score was 12 points ( from memory). Every game served up near 30 scores. To me that shows that attacking football is back and the naysayers talking about defensive blankets and football becomming boring were way wrong.
Promoting this should be easy - but I think it should be in smaller venues, not double headers.
Make tickets hard to come by (esp for div 1) and there will be more clamour to get to see the final. That would make a better atmosphere. Also people willeventually realise that winning the nfl DOES springboard your side onto being real contenders for the AI. If we start to realise this, people will begin to see that they should take the league seriously.
Perception is everything.

[INDIANA]

Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.

Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................

[Cosmo Kramer]

Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.

It's not like there's a string of All-Ireland contenders coming out of Leinster either. The top three are the top three, if anyone else challenges them it will almost certainly be an Ulster team.

Where to start with yesterday??

Well, Clarke did well in goal, other than a few poor kickouts, his awareness of play was excellent. In defence, Barrett and McLoughlin enhanced their reputations, McGarrity improved midfield a bit and Conor is still a threat in the forwards. Dillon was solid enough.

That's about as good as it gets though. Now the bad stuff...

Liam O'Malley is not an intercounty standard corner back and never will be. He repeatedly succeeds in looking good in half paced league games and failing when it matters. I don't want to see him playing for Mayo in the Championship again. Next year I wouldn't even have him on the panel because he might only look good in a few league games again and get his place back. He is just not good enough.

Trevor Howley has been exposed twice at CHB in Croke Park now. He clearly isn't up to it in this position, and I had genuinely thought he was. We need to figure out if there is another position he can play, maybe wing back or corner back, but that might have to wait until next years league I think because the time for experimenting is over. He may have to warm the bench for the summer.

As someone else said, Parsons needs a kick up the hole. He has the talent but something is lacking, I think its grit and drive. If he can't find it he shouldn't be playing.

Who's vice captain? Because Trevor was miles away from intercounty standard yesterday and it's not the first time. At this stage I don't really see what he has to offer, other than maybe as an impact sub to come on when opposition players are tiring. He might be able to run the legs off them then. It's pointless playing him from the start - he can't shoot for shit and just runs into blind alleys.

And I'm hoping Ronaldson wasn't fully fit. But even then his lack of inches will always be a problem at the highest level.

Over the last few weeks the team has been starting to more and more resemble last years 15. And that's been a mistake because changes have to be made. At least we have had this game to highlight our problems, without it we wouldn't have learned a few things and we might even yet be looking back at this game in July or August as a turning point (but not in September, not a chance). But if big changes are not made now, we might as well write off the year - and O'Mahony's second coming as manager along with it.

Here's the kind of team I would be looking to start against Sligo:

                    Clarke
Barrett        Cafferkey       Higgins
Gardiner     McLoughlin    Vaughan
       McGarrity        S O'Shea
A Moran         Dillon         Kilcoyne
C Mortimer   A O'Shea        Varley

That to me is about the best we have. It should be a far better 15 than started yesterday. It still leaves some bench options in Conroy, Cunniffe, Harte, Ronaldson and maybe Trevor Mortimer. We don't have much else, I have yet to be at all convinced by Barry Moran.

Those 6 are the best defence we have, it's actually an OK full back line with Keith back in it. I can't comment at all on Cunniffe, it's so long since we've seen him. Other than Keith, who we need to keep at corner back because of lack of alternatives, our best player in the backs is McLoughlin, and that's not just based on yesterday but on the last year or more of seeing him play. So I think we should give him a shot at CHB, he could be capable of playing the position in a similar way to Nallen in his earlier days.

Midfield pretty much picks itself now unless Parsons picks it up in a big way. Dillon is still our most talented forward so I would have him at 11 and leave O'Shea at 14, but in general it's the way the forwards are set up to play rather than the personnel that needs to be changed. When the ball goes in high to O'Shea the smaller lads along side should be heading straight for the action looking for breaks or lay offs from Aiden. He needs to be looking to break or distribute the ball straight away, turning for goal will not be an option against the best teams, he's a marked man.

Varley should get a run in the Championship now and it will be well deserved based on his performances. All is not lost yet, we can still go to Sligo and win. But if we are to do so a lot has to change.

[Greenabovethered]

It was once again a disappointing performance and i struggled to take any positives.  Everything went right for Cork, they won a huge amount of breaks and in the fist half and received the benefit of a number of referring decisions. The first half was lost when Cork tagged on  5 points and Mayo kicked 3 atrocious (Trevor, parsons & Ronaldo) wides and hit the crossbar.

Mayo started brightly in the second half but lost possession with misplaced passes over and over again and lost every break around the middle. Sad to say that the towel was thrown in again today quite early. Honourable exception to Clarke, O'Malley & Barret.

Cork had 8-10 men behind the ball all day while we struggled to get back and tackle. Aidan O'Shea was doubled teamed for most of the day.

I lost count the number of times Cork players broke through tackles.  Cork half back & forward line had too much time on the ball and could pick out their passes at will. Once again we showed a level of naivety that is unacceptable at this level.

Wholesale changes are not the answer, Parsons had a great league overall and could have got motm in 2 or 3 games.  We have a relatively strong panel and it is more about getting the attitude and tactics right for each individual game rather than trying to outplay and outscore superior teams.  I firmly believe we should have got men behind the ball all day today and stop them scoring. It might not be pretty but it would have kept us in the game longer and even in defeat we could have taken something out of the game.

[diehard]

I firmly believe we should have got men behind the ball all day today and stop them scoring. It might not be pretty but it would have kept us in the game longer and even in defeat we could have taken something out of the game.

I saw Trevor Mortimer and Andy Moran behind the ball several times but it made no difference.  Cork were able to kick the ball over the bar very easily. 1-17 is some score. Cork were well able to turn posession into scores fairly easily  - Mayo were not.

[Ryano]

From the Mayo point of view I think something of far more concern is the Rossies coming up with this all-Ireland minor team. It is very like the British election with the rossies as the previously no hoper lib Dems and Mayo as the Tories with Galway as New labour.

There is absolutely no chance of Roscommon making any sort of impact in Connacht this year. None. They are at least 2/3 years from being competative again. Some talent coming up through the ranks from Minor and U-21 but they still lack experience and need bulking up physically. Very realistic chance of London beating them in a few weeks time in Ruislip. And even if they don't Leitrim will be a seriously motivated team for the semi final following the tragic death of Philly McGuinness. I would not be too worried about Roscommon if I were one of the other 5 teams in Connacht, and thats not cute hoorism talk. Thats having watched them in the league drop to Div 4 and have their arses handed to them by Mayo last year. 

Bad and all as Mayo were yesterday they will get better as the championship comes round. They would still be my tip to win it and do well too outside Connacht. They might not be realistic AI material yet but they are still a formidable outfit on their day. The Mayo followers tend to be hard on them when they lose and get very down in the mouth about it all. Come championship they will be back on form though.

[Logan]

Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.

Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................

Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?

Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?

I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.

[Lar Naparka]

surely at this stage Larnap this has to be HIS team if not how many more years before it is ?

I see him having one more year (2011) to do this. By then, he should have brought on the younger players as far as it possible for anyone to do. He has a promising side coming along but there is only so much that a manager can achieve with any panel of players and Johnno and his cubs are no exception.
After the Meath debacle last season, I fully expected him to step down. I would have fully understood it if he had done so; up to that point, I had thought he hadn't a clue and had no problem saying so. But he started off last season by making a fair fist of building up some sort of a settled team and, going on form, Mayo should have knocked Meath aside without any problems.
They didn't but in the process showed that they were nowhere near the standard required to win an AI and could well have lost the Connacht Final as well.
I expected the 'legacy' players would have led the way and provided the bit of cuteness and leadership needed to keep the team together. Quite plainly, they didn't; if anything, the lot of them were more at sea than any of the younger lads on show that day.
I don't think any of them owe us anything but I can't see an All Ireland coming our way until Johnno has developed suitable replacements for most if not all of them.
That's why I was intrigued when he stayed on for another year; he must see some potential in the younger lads or why go through another year of pure hell?
Our half forward line should have carried the fight to Cork yesterday; for a mixture of experience and a proven record of individual brilliance at times, they would be hard to beat anywhere.
Yesterday they failed to show up and the Cork half backs, O'Leary in particular, had ample time and space to set up one attack after another. The same thing happened during most of the first half down in Cork but Mayo managed to tighten up after the first 25 minutes or so. Yup; the midfield and our own half backs were overwhelmed also but the rot began where one should least expect it to happen.
In fairness to Conoreen, he did have a good day but he can be as unpredictable as a baby's bum and only Clarkie, from the Boys of the Old Brigade, came through with his reputation intact. He just doesn't play substandard games.
Mayo have had a commendable league run—no doubt about that and one stinker won't turn the emerging players into plodders overnight but Johnno will have to come up a whole lot of others if he is to stand a chance of winning out before he runs out of time and talent available to him.
He has come up with a lot of new faces with serious potential during the league and only time will tell if he can find enough others to finish the job. I'm just afraid he won't find them by looking to the past.
Onwards and upwards; let's teach Sligonian and co. a bit of manners!

[INDIANA]

Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.

Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................

Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?

Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?

I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.

I remember Tyrone too and the the current team ain't a patch on the 2005 model. I do think Mayo/Galway could get out of the other 2 provinces. I seem to recall Tyrone being relegated recently- hardly a glowing reference for the province.


I would rate Connacht/Ulster on a par in terms of the quality teams they have. Leinster is below both and Munster has the 2 best teams in Ireland.

Galway/Sligo and Mayo should make on side of gthe draw very interesting this season.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.

Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................

Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?

Of course they could. Neither province is so strong that Galway and Mayo would have absolutely no chance of winning them.

Now Munster on the other hand would be more difficult as you'd have to get past possibly both Cork and Kerry unless one of them knocked the other out.

[Logan]

Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.

Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................

Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?

Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?

I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.

I remember Tyrone too and the the current team ain't a patch on the 2005 model. I do think Mayo/Galway could get out of the other 2 provinces. I seem to recall Tyrone being relegated recently- hardly a glowing reference for the province.


I would rate Connacht/Ulster on a par in terms of the quality teams they have. Leinster is below both and Munster has the 2 best teams in Ireland.

Galway/Sligo and Mayo should make on side of gthe draw very interesting this season.

It's still a good Tyrone team and we all know Tyrone in Championship are an even more difficult animal to beat compared to league. Tyrone would still beat either team come championship.

This is Mayo's problem. They generally go the opposite way in championship and have failed numerous times in CP. Galway have the potential for a different mentality, but sadly aren't showing it in Championship recently. Maye JK will bring it in time - but not this year.

I don't think Mayo would have beaten Down or Armagh yesterday nor do I think they'd have half a hope of beating them on a championship Sunday. I don't think they could beat Tyrone either.
I don't think on a championship day they could beat Meath, Kildare or Dublin.

(I agree with you GalwayBayBoy on your last point.)

[GalwayBayBoy]

Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.

Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................

Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?

Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?

I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.

I remember Tyrone too and the the current team ain't a patch on the 2005 model. I do think Mayo/Galway could get out of the other 2 provinces. I seem to recall Tyrone being relegated recently- hardly a glowing reference for the province.


I would rate Connacht/Ulster on a par in terms of the quality teams they have. Leinster is below both and Munster has the 2 best teams in Ireland.

Galway/Sligo and Mayo should make on side of gthe draw very interesting this season.

I don't think Mayo would have beaten Down or Armagh yesterday nor do I think they'd have half a hope of beating them on a championship Sunday. I don't think they could beat Tyrone either.
I don't think on a championship day they could beat Meath, Kildare or Dublin.

Far be it from me to defend Mayo but why on earth could they not beat any of those teams? It's not like any of those other sides are any great shakes either. Decent sides yes but eminently beatable.

[INDIANA]

Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.

[Logan]

Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.

No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!

Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.

[INDIANA]

Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.

No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!

Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.

League has more to do with Logan then you're saying. its no coincidence the leinster championship is the poorest out there because it has only 1 Div 1 team.