Is the Pope guilty of sexual abuse cover up?

[longrunsthefox]

I suppose this thread will do... on news today... check out the arrogance of this shower still so out of touch with their crimes against children... not the first time they would 'not dignify a story with a response.'  Looking the other way when they heard the victims' stories got them in this mess in the first place. 

Cardinal Brady denies Vatican wants him to resign 

Cardinal Sean Brady is being sued at the Dublin High Court
Reports that the Vatican want the head of the Catholic Church in Ireland to resign over a child abuse scandal have been denied.
As a priest in 1975 Cardinal Sean Brady was at meetings where children signed vows of silence over complaints against paedophile priest Fr Brendan Smyth.
A number of newspapers reported that the Vatican hierarchy want the cardinal to stand aside.

However, a spokesman for Cardinal Brady dismissed the story.
"This kind of headline on a story, I would not dignify with a response," he said.

Cardinal Brady is being sued by a man who claims he was abused by Smyth.
The man is suing Cardinal Brady at the High Court in Dublin in his capacity as head of the church.
Documents lodged at the High Court allege that the victim was abused by prolific paedophile Smyth while he was an altar boy in Dundalk in the early 1970s.

[Main Street]

Let's face it the Church has it's pomp and circumstance and D'Arcy has his. Other priests kiss rings, D'Arcy kisses celebrity arse in return for praise. As for the ridiculous dyed black hair - that just reinforces the vainglorious nature of the man. He's quite obviously a Protestant and I can't for the life of me work out why he is still in the Catholic Church.

If so, then  the Catholic Church is serious need of more Protestants

The Catholic Hierarchy Ireland is stained by the lack of consensus on that the sex abuse cover-up, allowing priests to continue their abuse, was a crime then just as it is a crime now.  Only the diehards inside the Church in Ireland do not see this.
The Church in the USA could admit it and move on, probably because the diehards were either outvoted, out-argued or less stubborn.

[ardmhachaabu]

The reason Fr Brian Darcy is so able to speak out is that he isn't AFRAID to.

He's not afraid of the cardinals, the bishops, parish priests and that hierarchical structure that exists.

He is outside of it.  He is not a diocesan priest.

As an ordained priest, he is well inside the hierarchy structure of the Catholic Church. He has to be responsible to someone,
if not a diocese structure then he answers to the hierarchal equivalent in his order.

But you appear to be suggesting that more priests might well share his sentiments but have a fear of doing so out loud.

Certainly he answers to someone in his order, I am not sure what their title is.  I am not suggesting more priests would take his stance though I am just pointing out that he doesn't fall under the same circumstances as diocesan priests so he can say what he likes by and large.  Personally speaking, I am not his greatest fan, I think Ulick is right about him in that he craves celebrity status between books, his newspaper column and he seems to have met and been photographed with quite a few celebrities.  I wouldn't say that he even speaks for anyone other than himself.  Some of his views are out of line with Church teachings.  I find that egotistical in the extreme, to be honest about it 

[Ulick]

I suppose this thread will do... on news today... check out the arrogance of this shower still so out of touch with their crimes against children... not the first time they would 'not dignify a story with a response.'  Looking the other way when they heard the victims' stories got them in this mess in the first place. 

Cardinal Brady denies Vatican wants him to resign 

Cardinal Sean Brady is being sued at the Dublin High Court
Reports that the Vatican want the head of the Catholic Church in Ireland to resign over a child abuse scandal have been denied.
As a priest in 1975 Cardinal Sean Brady was at meetings where children signed vows of silence over complaints against paedophile priest Fr Brendan Smyth.
A number of newspapers reported that the Vatican hierarchy want the cardinal to stand aside.

However, a spokesman for Cardinal Brady dismissed the story.
"This kind of headline on a story, I would not dignify with a response," he said.

Cardinal Brady is being sued by a man who claims he was abused by Smyth.
The man is suing Cardinal Brady at the High Court in Dublin in his capacity as head of the church.
Documents lodged at the High Court allege that the victim was abused by prolific paedophile Smyth while he was an altar boy in Dundalk in the early 1970s.

Fox those 'reports' emanated from yesterdays London Times which also references 'The Tablet'. Considering both especially the Times have been running with extremely biased coverage of anything concerning the Pope for months now and the (liberal) Tablet have been using any excuse to have a dig a perceived conservative Pope, the reports can be safely dismissed until they come from a more authoritative source.

[Ulick]

If so, then  the Catholic Church is serious need of more Protestants

The Catholic Hierarchy Ireland is stained by the lack of consensus on that the sex abuse cover-up, allowing priests to continue their abuse, was a crime then just as it is a crime now.  Only the diehards inside the Church in Ireland do not see this.
The Church in the USA could admit it and move on, probably because the diehards were either outvoted, out-argued or less stubborn.

That is certainly one view and far be it for me to disagree, however, as there are as many conservative Catholic priests within the Church who are disgusted by both the current revelations, clericalism and with the liberalism of priests like D'Arcy, the other argument would be that à la carte catholics such as D'Arcy are as much a problem for the Church as is the current hierarchy. Hence, the argument goes, they should all leave and allow the Church to regroup around it's core tenets of faith.

[Ulick]

Archbishop Nichols is well known for his liturgical differences with Benedict but looks like he can spot a hit job when he sees it.


The Church is not trying to cover anything up
Catholics are shamed by child abuse allegations. But the Pope has taken strong action
Vincent Nichols

The child abuse committed within the Roman Catholic Church and its concealment is deeply shocking and totally unacceptable. I am ashamed of what happened, and understand the outrage and anger it has provoked.

That shame and anger centres on the damage done to every single abused child. Abuse damages, often irrevocably, a child's ability to trust another, to fashion stable relationships, to sustain self-esteem. When it is inflicted within a religious context, it damages that child's relationship to God. Today, not for the first time, I express my unreserved shame and sorrow for what has happened to many in the Church.

My shame is compounded, as is the anger of many, at the mistaken judgments made within the Church: that reassurance from a suspect could be believed; that credible allegations were deemed to be "unbelievable"; that the reputation of the Church mattered more than safeguarding children. These wrong reactions arise whenever and wherever allegations of abuse are made, whether within a family or a Church. We have to insist that the safety of the child comes first because the child is powerless.

Serious mistakes have been made within the Catholic Church. There is some misunderstanding about the Church, too. Within the Church there is a legal structure, its canon law. It is the duty of each diocesan bishop to administer that law. Certain serious offences against that law have to be referred to the Holy See to ensure proper justice. Some of these offences are not criminal in public law (such as profanation of the sacraments), others (such as offences against children) are. The role of the Holy See is to offer guidance to ensure that proper procedures are followed, including the confidentially needed to protect the good name of witnesses, victims and the accused until the trial is completed. It is no different from any other responsible legal procedure.

This "secrecy" is nothing to do with the confidentiality, or "seal" of the confessional, which is protected for reasons of the rights of conscience.

The relationship between the administration of church law and the criminal law in any particular state is a point of real difficulty and misunderstanding. Nothing in the requirement of canon law prohibits or impedes the reporting of criminal offences to the police. Since 2001 the Holy See, working through the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, has encouraged that course of action on dioceses who have received evidence about child abuse and which the diocesan authorities are responsible for pursuing. The canonical procedure is best put on hold until the criminal investigation is complete, whatever its outcome. This is what is needed. That it has not happened consistently is deeply regrettable.

In England and Wales, since 2001, the agreed policy followed by the bishops has been to report all allegations of child abuse, no matter from how far in the past, to the police or social services. By doing so and by having clear safeguarding procedures in place in every parish as well as independent supervision at diocesan and national level, we have built good relationships with those authorities in these matters, including, in some areas, co-operation in the supervision of offenders in the community.

What of the role of Pope Benedict? When he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith he led important changes made in church law: the inclusion in canon law of internet offences against children, the extension of child abuse offences to include the sexual abuse of all under 18, the case by case waiving of the statue of limitation and the establishment of a fast-track dismissal from the clerical state for offenders. He is not an idle observer. His actions speak as well as his words.

Every year since 2002 the Catholic Church in England and Wales has made public the exact number of allegations made within the Church, the number reported to the police, the action taken and the outcome. As far as I know, no other organisation in this country does this. It is not a cover-up; it is clear and total disclosure. The purpose of doing so is not to defend the Church. It is to make plain that in the Catholic Church in England and Wales there is no hiding place for those who seek to harm children. On this we are determined.

One more fact. In the past 40 years, less than half of 1 per cent of Catholic priests in England and Wales (0.4 per cent) have faced allegations of child abuse. Fewer have been found guilty. Do not misunderstand me. One is too many. One broken child is a tragedy and a disgrace. One case alone is enough to justify anger and outrage. The work of safeguarding, within any organisation and within our society as a whole, is demanding but absolutely necessary. The Catholic Church here is committed to safeguarding children and all vulnerable people.

Vincent Nichols is the Archbishop of Westminster

[mylestheslasher]

Archbishop Nichols is well known for his liturgical differences with Benedict but looks like he can spot a hit job when he sees it.


The Church is not trying to cover anything up
Catholics are shamed by child abuse allegations. But the Pope has taken strong action
Vincent Nichols

The child abuse committed within the Roman Catholic Church and its concealment is deeply shocking and totally unacceptable. I am ashamed of what happened, and understand the outrage and anger it has provoked.

That shame and anger centres on the damage done to every single abused child. Abuse damages, often irrevocably, a child's ability to trust another, to fashion stable relationships, to sustain self-esteem. When it is inflicted within a religious context, it damages that child's relationship to God. Today, not for the first time, I express my unreserved shame and sorrow for what has happened to many in the Church.

My shame is compounded, as is the anger of many, at the mistaken judgments made within the Church: that reassurance from a suspect could be believed; that credible allegations were deemed to be "unbelievable"; that the reputation of the Church mattered more than safeguarding children. These wrong reactions arise whenever and wherever allegations of abuse are made, whether within a family or a Church. We have to insist that the safety of the child comes first because the child is powerless.

Serious mistakes have been made within the Catholic Church. There is some misunderstanding about the Church, too. Within the Church there is a legal structure, its canon law. It is the duty of each diocesan bishop to administer that law. Certain serious offences against that law have to be referred to the Holy See to ensure proper justice. Some of these offences are not criminal in public law (such as profanation of the sacraments), others (such as offences against children) are. The role of the Holy See is to offer guidance to ensure that proper procedures are followed, including the confidentially needed to protect the good name of witnesses, victims and the accused until the trial is completed. It is no different from any other responsible legal procedure.

This "secrecy" is nothing to do with the confidentiality, or "seal" of the confessional, which is protected for reasons of the rights of conscience.

The relationship between the administration of church law and the criminal law in any particular state is a point of real difficulty and misunderstanding. Nothing in the requirement of canon law prohibits or impedes the reporting of criminal offences to the police. Since 2001 the Holy See, working through the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, has encouraged that course of action on dioceses who have received evidence about child abuse and which the diocesan authorities are responsible for pursuing. The canonical procedure is best put on hold until the criminal investigation is complete, whatever its outcome. This is what is needed. That it has not happened consistently is deeply regrettable.

In England and Wales, since 2001, the agreed policy followed by the bishops has been to report all allegations of child abuse, no matter from how far in the past, to the police or social services. By doing so and by having clear safeguarding procedures in place in every parish as well as independent supervision at diocesan and national level, we have built good relationships with those authorities in these matters, including, in some areas, co-operation in the supervision of offenders in the community.

What of the role of Pope Benedict? When he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith he led important changes made in church law: the inclusion in canon law of internet offences against children, the extension of child abuse offences to include the sexual abuse of all under 18, the case by case waiving of the statue of limitation and the establishment of a fast-track dismissal from the clerical state for offenders. He is not an idle observer. His actions speak as well as his words.

Every year since 2002 the Catholic Church in England and Wales has made public the exact number of allegations made within the Church, the number reported to the police, the action taken and the outcome. As far as I know, no other organisation in this country does this. It is not a cover-up; it is clear and total disclosure. The purpose of doing so is not to defend the Church. It is to make plain that in the Catholic Church in England and Wales there is no hiding place for those who seek to harm children. On this we are determined.

One more fact. In the past 40 years, less than half of 1 per cent of Catholic priests in England and Wales (0.4 per cent) have faced allegations of child abuse. Fewer have been found guilty. Do not misunderstand me. One is too many. One broken child is a tragedy and a disgrace. One case alone is enough to justify anger and outrage. The work of safeguarding, within any organisation and within our society as a whole, is demanding but absolutely necessary. The Catholic Church here is committed to safeguarding children and all vulnerable people.

Vincent Nichols is the Archbishop of Westminster

Any chance you could provide a link to where this came from?

[slow corner back]

The catholic church in England ( unlike in Ireland ) is actually on the rise over the last few years. Catholocism has more regular attenders in England than any other church for the first time since Henry 8th. There may be many reasons for this but I suspect one is that since the catholic church has not been attached to the state for centuries in England it has not got as carried away with its own power in the community there the way it did in Ireland.

[Ulick]

Myles it is a right of reply piece by the Archbishop in todays London Times.

[muppet]

Myles it is a right of reply piece by the Archbishop in todays London Times.

My pontificating about how I haven't covered up heinous crimes since 2001 would hardly be something I'd put on a CV, especially if I was a 2000 year old organisation.

That letter has a heading stating that the Pope has taken strong action, it sits just after a denial of covering anything up. Yet all he says the Pope did was to create a couple of new offences in Canon Law and a fast track penalty for abusers. Like it or not the man at the top of an organisation should not be above taking some responsibility for failings in that organisation.

It says nothing new. It is hardly a turning point in the debate.

[Ulick]

It's a very pertinent point in the debate Muppet as it points out that the current Pope in his previous position did more than anyone else in the Church to deal with clerical abuse.

[gallsman]

So I don't think I make any secrets about my faith on here.  I will say that I do believe the Pope (then Cardinal), in my opinion, was aware of the abuse and failed to act on it.  He failed the victims and lives were ruined as a result.  Just like Sean Brady did.

So what happens now? The media and the public go crazy, the Pope is told to resign (which he wont) and the media and public call for everyone and anyone who had any notion of half of what was happening to stand down.  The Church falls apart.  Everyone lives happily ever after?

The Church messed up (biggest understatement ever) but I believe that the people in positions of power today, despite their failings, are in the best position to lead us (the Church, the faithful, people who actually go to Mass) out of this tragedy and forward towards reconciliation and peace.

Despite the fact they should be prosecuted and jailed?

[muppet]

So I don't think I make any secrets about my faith on here.  I will say that I do believe the Pope (then Cardinal), in my opinion, was aware of the abuse and failed to act on it.  He failed the victims and lives were ruined as a result.  Just like Sean Brady did.

So what happens now? The media and the public go crazy, the Pope is told to resign (which he wont) and the media and public call for everyone and anyone who had any notion of half of what was happening to stand down.  The Church falls apart.  Everyone lives happily ever after?

The Church messed up (biggest understatement ever) but I believe that the people in positions of power today, despite their failings, are in the best position to lead us (the Church, the faithful, people who actually go to Mass) out of this tragedy and forward towards reconciliation and peace.

Despite the fact they should be prosecuted and jailed?

"The people in positions of power today......are in the best position to lead us...."

I don't mean to get personal but this is the type of meaningless waffle that passes for action in the Church.

[pintsofguinness]

It's a very pertinent point in the debate Muppet as it points out that the current Pope in his previous position did more than anyone else in the Church to deal with clerical abuse.

I think that's  a very poor and meaningless defence.

[Ulick]

It's not ment to be a defense merely an explanation of why I posted the article. However if someone posts evidence that the Pope is guilty of covering up abuse rather that dealing with it, then I will consider the merits of any defense.