Is the Pope guilty of sexual abuse cover up?

[The Iceman]

When you really don't understand or respect something it is difficult to talk about it. 

How can you appreciate Mass unless you understand what its all about?
How can you not think its ok to avoid religion and go it alone if you don't fully understand God's message and Paul's teachings?
Of course you're going to make fun of any level of respect shown to any hierarchy if you don't respect that leadership yourself or what it stands for or understand who instituted it and what it really means.

[johnneycool]

When you really don't understand or respect something it is difficult to talk about it. 

How can you appreciate Mass unless you understand what its all about?
How can you not think its ok to avoid religion and go it alone if you don't fully understand God's message and Paul's teachings?
Of course you're going to make fun of any level of respect shown to any hierarchy if you don't respect that leadership yourself or what it stands for or understand who instituted it and what it really means.

Respect has to be earned and maybe I don't understand but a few years in Maynooth doesn't break much delf in my mind.
Certainly an individual priest through good deeds and honesty can earn my respect like any other individual but the institution he represents has to show me and my children some respect before it'll get the light of day from me.
I can quite easily detach gods message and Pauls teachings from those eminating from Rome who are supposed to be teaching his message to us as they are now very far removed from that.

[The Iceman]

When you really don't understand or respect something it is difficult to talk about it. 

How can you appreciate Mass unless you understand what its all about?
How can you not think its ok to avoid religion and go it alone if you don't fully understand God's message and Paul's teachings?
Of course you're going to make fun of any level of respect shown to any hierarchy if you don't respect that leadership yourself or what it stands for or understand who instituted it and what it really means.

Respect has to be earned and maybe I don't understand but a few years in Maynooth doesn't break much delf in my mind.
Certainly an individual priest through good deeds and honesty can earn my respect like any other individual but the institution he represents has to show me and my children some respect before it'll get the light of day from me.
I can quite easily detach gods message and Pauls teachings from those eminating from Rome who are supposed to be teaching his message to us as they are now very far removed from that.

If you understood the Mass you would still go. The Mass isn't about the priest.  In fact I don't like the majority of the priests in my parish or most parishes I have visited.
Which goes back to my post.
Maybe read it again before commenting.

[stew]

stew, fact of the matter is you don't know a thing about the inner workings of the church. End of.

There is the arogance I was talking about earlier. 

Ok ardmachaabu we will play it your way, here is what i do know. Bishops in Ireland KNEW that they had paedophiles in their midsts and they covered it up and worse still, sent these scumbags to different parishes/countries to inflict more of the same on innocent children, by doing so they hurt children, their families and the Church they worked for.

I also know that the Pope has done nothing but deflect blame away from his office, he, like you sends messages dripping in arrogance and he refuses to accept responsibility for what has happened on his watch.

To me the worse Character in all of this is JP the second, they are talking about making the man a Saint, I would have him up on neglegence charges for failing to protect the Children of the world from the rapists among his ranks, you know, the ones who stripped children from their innocence, I would also have every Bishop, Cardinal and Priest up on charges that knew what was going on and said nothing for the sake of the Church.

I believe in God just as much as you do ardmacha, what I fail to understand is why you take the blinkered stance that you do, your stance is unhealthy and for your sake I hope you come to understand that the Chuch MUST be held accountable for the failure to protect it's flock, the scum must be weeded out and those that harbourer these animals MUST pay the price, and that includes your Pope and His Cardinals and Bishops.

I still go to Mass but I have learned one thing, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in my Priest, I put my faith in God and God alone and all you do by blindly supporting the Church is perpetuate the problem. The word is brainwashed adrmacha, look it up in the dictionary, hows that for arrogance.

[johnneycool]

When you really don't understand or respect something it is difficult to talk about it. 

How can you appreciate Mass unless you understand what its all about?
How can you not think its ok to avoid religion and go it alone if you don't fully understand God's message and Paul's teachings?
Of course you're going to make fun of any level of respect shown to any hierarchy if you don't respect that leadership yourself or what it stands for or understand who instituted it and what it really means.

Respect has to be earned and maybe I don't understand but a few years in Maynooth doesn't break much delf in my mind.
Certainly an individual priest through good deeds and honesty can earn my respect like any other individual but the institution he represents has to show me and my children some respect before it'll get the light of day from me.
I can quite easily detach gods message and Pauls teachings from those eminating from Rome who are supposed to be teaching his message to us as they are now very far removed from that.

If you understood the Mass you would still go. The Mass isn't about the priest.  In fact I don't like the majority of the priests in my parish or most parishes I have visited.
Which goes back to my post.
Maybe read it again before commenting.

I'll bow to your greater knowledge oh enlightened one but please put in laymans terms for us great unwashed what the mass actually means?

[The Iceman]

When you really don't understand or respect something it is difficult to talk about it. 

How can you appreciate Mass unless you understand what its all about?
How can you not think its ok to avoid religion and go it alone if you don't fully understand God's message and Paul's teachings?
Of course you're going to make fun of any level of respect shown to any hierarchy if you don't respect that leadership yourself or what it stands for or understand who instituted it and what it really means.

Respect has to be earned and maybe I don't understand but a few years in Maynooth doesn't break much delf in my mind.
Certainly an individual priest through good deeds and honesty can earn my respect like any other individual but the institution he represents has to show me and my children some respect before it'll get the light of day from me.
I can quite easily detach gods message and Pauls teachings from those eminating from Rome who are supposed to be teaching his message to us as they are now very far removed from that.

If you understood the Mass you would still go. The Mass isn't about the priest.  In fact I don't like the majority of the priests in my parish or most parishes I have visited.
Which goes back to my post.
Maybe read it again before commenting.

I'll bow to your greater knowledge oh enlightened one but please put in laymans terms for us great unwashed what the mass actually means?

Find out johnny for yourself.  I'm really not trying to sit on any high horses. Find out for yourself and have an open heart and see what happens.
There have been loads of other topics on this board where people who are ignorant of anything have to understand things more and then the ignorance disappears.  The same is true for the Catholic Faith and the Mass.  Ignorance is bliss in a lot of cases but then don't comment and fight a corner so passionately if you are not fully informed of what you are fighting against.....

[HowAreYeGettinOn]

The cover-up continues (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0326/breaking64.html);

Munich archdiocese defends pope

Pope Benedict's former archdiocese of Munich today insisted he had no knowledge of a 1980 decision to reassign a priest undergoing therapy there for suspected paedophilia to a post with access to children.

Archdiocesan spokesman Bernhard Kellner dismissed as speculation a New York Times  article that the fact the-then cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was copied in on a memo of the transfer meant he was informed of what went on.

"We stand by our account that Cardinal Ratzinger didn't know about this decision," Mr Kellner said. "I cannot confirm he knew about this, and we don't have any evidence to that effect."

The priest, Rev Peter Hullermann, was identified earlier this month after a newspaper reported that he had been moved from northern Germany to Munich in 1980 for therapy for suspected paedophilia, but was soon put to work with youths. Six years later he was convicted of molesting a boy at another parish.

Pope Benedict, archbishop of Munich in 1980, oversaw the decision to transfer the priest at that time to Munich for therapy, Mr Kellner said. However, the Vatican has denied the pope knew of the priest's reassignment to youth work in Bavaria.

The pope's then vicar general, Father Gerhard Gruber, took full responsibility earlier this month for the decision to reinstate Hullermann, who has since been suspended from his priestly duties.

"It was the decision of Gerhard Gruber, and he admitted his mistake," Mr Kellner told Reuters. "(Pope Benedict) did not decide to make this man a spiritual counsellor." Mr Kellner said the New York Times account was accurate but "there is not one single piece of new information in the article." Copying the memo detailing the decision to the office of the archbishop was routine procedure, he said.

"An archbishop doesn't read all the administrative acts. He just can't. That's why he has a vicar general," he added. "Gruber had 100 percent administrative control."

The Munich archdiocese said on Wednesday that new sexual abuse allegations had been made against Hullermann, whose case had been forwarded to the prosecutor's office.

In a statement, the Church said it met with possible victims and that Hullermann was alleged to have abused a minor in 1998 when he worked in Garching, near Munich. The archdiocese also said that Garching and Bad Toelz, the two towns where Hullermann had worked, had appointed independent lay ombudsmen to examine any new allegations of abuse.

The latest Times  report followed an article yesterday that revealed the Vatican did not defrock a US priest accused of sexually abusing up to 200 deaf boys in Milwaukee from the 1950s to the 1970s.

A Vatican spokesman explained that church laws did not require automatic punishment and that civil authorities dropped their investigation into allegations of his abuse in 1974.

Reuters


Further comment is almost superfluous at this stage.

It's difficult to see how the Church will regain anyone's trust under the leadership of this man.

[EC Unique]

stew, fact of the matter is you don't know a thing about the inner workings of the church. End of.

There is the arogance I was talking about earlier. 

Ok ardmachaabu we will play it your way, here is what i do know. Bishops in Ireland KNEW that they had paedophiles in their midsts and they covered it up and worse still, sent these scumbags to different parishes/countries to inflict more of the same on innocent children, by doing so they hurt children, their families and the Church they worked for.

I also know that the Pope has done nothing but deflect blame away from his office, he, like you sends messages dripping in arrogance and he refuses to accept responsibility for what has happened on his watch.

To me the worse Character in all of this is JP the second, they are talking about making the man a Saint, I would have him up on neglegence charges for failing to protect the Children of the world from the rapists among his ranks, you know, the ones who stripped children from their innocence, I would also have every Bishop, Cardinal and Priest up on charges that knew what was going on and said nothing for the sake of the Church.

I believe in God just as much as you do ardmacha, what I fail to understand is why you take the blinkered stance that you do, your stance is unhealthy and for your sake I hope you come to understand that the Chuch MUST be held accountable for the failure to protect it's flock, the scum must be weeded out and those that harbourer these animals MUST pay the price, and that includes your Pope and His Cardinals and Bishops.

I still go to Mass but I have learned one thing, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in my Priest, I put my faith in God and God alone and all you do by blindly supporting the Church is perpetuate the problem. The word is brainwashed adrmacha, look it up in the dictionary, hows that for arrogance.

VERY well said Stew.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Look at the name of the reporter 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7065824.ece

[Puckoon]

Thats quality shit right there.

[longrunsthefox]

Look at the name of the reporter 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7065824.ece

You're a bit late with that one...

Re: Clerical abuse!
« Reply #856 on: Today at 12:55:14 PM »
   
Time for a bit of levity... 

You couldn't make it up .... this is from The Times online report...

'Roger Boyes probes Vienna Boys' Choir

Catholic paedo scandal? The Times has the man for the job'

[orangeman]

INSTRUCTIONS TO ALL BISHOPS / CARDINALS / PRIESTS


1. Ignore any accusations that comes to your attention that might harm mother church.
2. Ignore the safety of children and facilitate the continuing abuse of young, vulnerable boys and girls by moving known paedophiles and child rapists to other parishes all over the country.
3.  Just deny every accusation that ever comes your way.
4. If legal action is taken against you, defend the action and again deny everything.
5. At all times, blame somebody else.
6. The media should take the blame as well.
7. Changes in society can be blamed also.
8. Appear contrite in front of TV cameras / reporters.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Look at the name of the reporter 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7065824.ece

You're a bit late with that one...

Sorry - I don't live on here like some people

[The Iceman]

stew, fact of the matter is you don't know a thing about the inner workings of the church. End of.

There is the arogance I was talking about earlier. 

Ok ardmachaabu we will play it your way, here is what i do know. Bishops in Ireland KNEW that they had paedophiles in their midsts and they covered it up and worse still, sent these scumbags to different parishes/countries to inflict more of the same on innocent children, by doing so they hurt children, their families and the Church they worked for.

I also know that the Pope has done nothing but deflect blame away from his office, he, like you sends messages dripping in arrogance and he refuses to accept responsibility for what has happened on his watch.

To me the worse Character in all of this is JP the second, they are talking about making the man a Saint, I would have him up on neglegence charges for failing to protect the Children of the world from the rapists among his ranks, you know, the ones who stripped children from their innocence, I would also have every Bishop, Cardinal and Priest up on charges that knew what was going on and said nothing for the sake of the Church.

I believe in God just as much as you do ardmacha, what I fail to understand is why you take the blinkered stance that you do, your stance is unhealthy and for your sake I hope you come to understand that the Chuch MUST be held accountable for the failure to protect it's flock, the scum must be weeded out and those that harbourer these animals MUST pay the price, and that includes your Pope and His Cardinals and Bishops.

I still go to Mass but I have learned one thing, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in my Priest, I put my faith in God and God alone and all you do by blindly supporting the Church is perpetuate the problem. The word is brainwashed adrmacha, look it up in the dictionary, hows that for arrogance.

VERY well said Stew.

this is out of context.  Ardmhacha abu was commenting on Stews misunderstanding and lack of knowledge about the asmission procedure for new priests and religious over the last 15 years.  Read the posts again boys.

[ardmhachaabu]

Iceman, they only see what they want to see