An Post ashamed of our history?

[under the bar]

Willie Frazer apparently said they had to go

[ardmhachaabu]

I'd suggest permanently removing An Post from the GPO instead.

I'd agree

winsamsoon, I have asked the questions;

who was the artist?
When were they painted?

If you can enlighten me that would be great as I would love to know exactly what cultural value these paintings actually have and not what some have arbitrarily decided that they have.

If no-one can answer those questions I am going to assume that the paintings aren't of any cultural value really

[Nally Stand]

Ardmhaca who cares who painted them. It's who's in them and what they represent that matters. I don't know who designed the Garden of Remembrance but I don't think it should be dug up.

[ardmhachaabu]

Ardmhaca who cares who painted them. It's who's in them and what they represent that matters. I don't know who designed the Garden of Remembrance but I don't think it should be dug up.

So, they could have been painted by anyone.  That doesn't lend any credibility to the argument that they have any cultural value.  If they had been painted by a decent Irish artist/even an historic figure/someone connected to the men and women of 1916 then I may have been persuaded otherwise

As it stands, imo, they are worth precisely nothing in true cultural terms until their background is explained, then I may change my mind

[Nally Stand]

Ok so we should tear down all monuments to historical figures in Ireland if you don't know who sculpted them? Garden of Remembrance should be dug up too then yeah?

[ardmhachaabu]

Listen nally, this is a discussion forum, I am not just going to meekly accept that these paintings have any intrinsic cultural value on your say-so or anyone else's until I am persuaded otherwise.

So to that end, do you have any answers to the questions I have posed a few times in this thread?

[Myles Na G.]

Two issues here:

1. An Post are saying that the lighting, space, etc, isn't suitable for displaying art work. That might be a fair point No point hanging things up in a dark corner where you can hardly see them.

2. Are they worth displaying? If tourists are coming through the doors in their droves, do we want them looking at pieces of art that would put us to shame? If they're bad works of art, they shouldn't be hanging on public display just because they happen to depict some patriotic scenes. Do you want people thinking we're a bunch of feckin' philistines?

[Nally Stand]

Well as you say these are your yardsticks for whether they should be in public view. What makes it a suitable yardstick for these paintings but not for monuments\statues\Garden of Remembrance?

[Tony Baloney]

Ardmhaca who cares who painted them. It's who's in them and what they represent that matters. I don't know who designed the Garden of Remembrance but I don't think it should be dug up.

So, they could have been painted by anyone.  That doesn't lend any credibility to the argument that they have any cultural value.  If they had been painted by a decent Irish artist/even an historic figure/someone connected to the men and women of 1916 then I may have been persuaded otherwise

As it stands, imo, they are worth precisely nothing in true cultural terms until their background is explained, then I may change my mind

Pretty much my feelings on the matter too. The paintings were done by an Irish artist in the 1990s as far as I can tell. I could understand some hue and cry if they were of the era in question or painted by Connolly himself. But they're not so in their own right they are if no historical value in my opinion. The GPO lends history to them.

[Celt_Man]

I understand the argument about who was the painter of these drawings and his significance and all that but the thing that is annoying me is An Post going on about finding a more suitable location for them?!

The paintings were on display there before and now that location is suitable anymore.  I would love to know what happen to make the GPO unsuitable for paintings depicting the GPO during Easter Rising?  And then what are they going to have in place of them then so?

[delboy]

To me hardy History and culture go hand in hand. A dillution of one has almost certainly a knock on affect to the other . So asking me to let things like be a distant past as time lapses on is not for me i am afraid. I think we owe it to the men and women of the past events to keep things like the Easter Rising  the Famine and many more incidents in Irish history alive. Ancestors who died in such atrocities should never be forgotten. This doesn't mean that we can't move on. I am from Northern ireland and i am very willing and open minded and want very much so to move forward with a society inclusive of all, but i don't have to sacrifice any of my historical insights to move forward. I may not always agree or have a different take on certain issues but i believe this is healthy in a society. For some folk their history is all they have and is at the crux of their everyday life it would be wrong to put our past on the shelf as it has shaped our modernity. History also serves an educational value and provides a person with a sense of belonging and responsibility as well as being a general interest. I don't think this does any harm in an ever increasing dissillusioned society ie where some of our youth couldn't tell you what the Easter Rising was. IMO without our past and the people that are keeping it together society would be worse than it currently is, so it also has a role to play for our future generations.

I think our obsession with history has created a lot more problems for society than it has solved, im intersted in what way do you think society would be worse without this constant reminders of past times and what role do you think it will play for future generations.
Dwelling on history will only cause fractures and schisms one 'cultures' easter rising is another 'cultures' seige of derry or battle of the boyne.
The history is in the past for a reason, leave it their.

[Nally Stand]

The only way that history has caused problems today is because Ireland has not fully emerged from them and gained full Independence. A country and it's people are defined and moulded by it's past. It should hence be proudly proclaimed. It makes us who we are. It makes us unique. No denials or revisionism can ever change that.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it

[thejuice]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but An Post are leaving the GPO, its being turned into a new theatre if I'm not mistaken.

[winsamsoon]

I'd suggest permanently removing An Post from the GPO instead.

I'd agree

contradicting, I have asked the questions;

who was the artist?
When were they painted?

If you can enlighten me that would be great as I would love to know exactly what cultural value these paintings actually have and not what some have arbitrarily decided that they have.

If no-one can answer those questions I am going to assume that the paintings aren't of any cultural value really

Ard my last post was in response to a post from hardy asking opinions on history and it's importance the paintings issues wasn't mentioned, But in answer to your questions i don't know who painted them but i would tend to agree that this doesn't really matter as it is the fact that they were there and now suddenly then are being removed totally.

secondly you are 100% entitled to your opinion and i wouldn't expect you to roll over



Delboy it is not the historical fact that has caused problems for our society it is the slant that certain individuals have put on certain events. In many cases they have went out of their way to cause offence. I think future generations should be made aware of their past and their ancestors past. If we claim to be nationalists then this history must be at the centre of our ethos otherwise we are contradicted ourselves. Our past is not detrimental to our future, sure there will always be people that put their own spin on things but the facts are clear in most circumstances. Even if they are not it still allows us to sit and talk about issues that doesn't involve joysticks and internet gaming.

There are countries in the world that would love the history we have. Ireland is a country steeped in history and if you were to ask someone in another country they could tell you that we are famous for our culture. This is a worldwide thing and this has put a tiny country on the world map. But we have some posters on here saying that our history is insignificant and not important.

Our history has moulded us into what we are today, it has influenced our political ideology (some may claim is a bad thing) but i think everyone should have the right t be subjected to our history and then they can make up their own mind.